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bullet # 1 broke the leg bone and got the front of the lungs before lodging in the offside shoulder.
bullet # 2 took out the heart and lungs and lodged under the offside skin, actualy in the skin.
bullet # 3 is an unfired 420gr Crater


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I mentioned a couple posts ago that I have a Number 1 in .45-70 along with an older Marlin. I shot them a lot back in the 70's and early 80's. I still have them, but don't shoot them much any more. Frankly, I got tired of getting kicked out from under my hat with the heavy loads. Elmer Keith's old load of a 400 grain bullet and 53 grains of 3031 shot well. But damn, it kicked. No wonder the old boy used to write about getting a "gun headache." Just looked and I can't find my chrono records on that one but it was right around 1800 fps if I remember. Out of those light rifles it was like making love to a porupine -- satisfying but it hurt, especially out of the Marlin. Well, I figured that you really don't have a set of cajones until you get up to the 500 grain bullets. So I played around with 500 grain Hornadys and stiff loads of 3031 out of the 1-S. These ran over the screens at an honest 1800 fps. Talk about recoil!

After playing with those kind of loads for a few years, I pretty much gave up on the 400 and 500 grain bullets as being too much of a good thing and standardized on the 300 grain bullet -- Hornady, Remington, Sierra -- wtih 48 grains of IMR 4198. These clocked right at 1950 fps according to my notes and were a whole lot more pleasant to shoot. But I missed the heavy bullets, but I just didn't want to deal with the rcoil any longer. It's probably an age thing, but getting the crap kicked out of me, my hat knocked off and my shooting glasses dumped on the ground every time I pulled the trigger is not my idea of fun anymore.

At about that time I was in one of the local gun emporiums when I came across a really nice Number 1 in .458. It occurred to me that this might be the ultimate .45-70. I bought it. And while I have pushed a few heavy loads through it, I mainly shoot .45-70 level loads through it. Damn thing shoots clover leaf groups with about anything I push through it. It's a whole lot more fun to shoot than the .45-70s and does just the same thing. Not exactly the lively handling rifle the 1-S is, but for those of us who love the .45-70 it's proven to be a good solution to the recoil issues that keep the .45-70's in the back of the safe.

I agree with the previous posters that the Ruger 1S is a nice handling rifle. If anything, the Number 1 in .458 is ponderous and a bit much for hauling around for long treks in the steep hills. Not sure I would compare the 1-S to a quail gun though -- unless you shoot 3" magnum slugs out of yours.






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I find it a lot more pleasant to shoot Trapdoor-level loads in my 45-70's. No need to fill the case just because the room is there.

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To the OP:

I say: "go for it".

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On the GBL - looks to me like the Guide Gun should have been buid the first place. Extended Mag, Laminated Stock, big lever.

I wonder why they insist on those sights though.

Imagine that thing from the factory with XS-Sights.

Its not hord - but them companies never do go the last yard.

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Originally Posted by luv2safari
Originally Posted by Big_Redhead
It appears to be in vogue for African hunters to malign the 45-70. Maybe they just can't deal with the fact that they spent so much hard-earned money on ridiculously expensive rifles when a five-hundred-dollar Marlin levergun has been proven effective against all the species on this planet. That would make me a little sick too.

Duck911, get the 45-70. They are just a bunch of fun to shoot and load for, and they kill game extremely well.

By the way, the range limitation resides with the hunter, not the caliber. A 45-70 will kill game at any range the shooter can hit the vitals. The same is true for the 30-378 magnum or 50 BMG. Words to the effect that the 45-70 is a short-range cartridge is pure horse pucky.


I use moderately priced rifles appropriate for the job at hand. Elephants have been killed with a 22, but that doesn't make them elephant guns. So...take a good swipe at me because I mortgage the farm to go to Africa, while you only wish... wink


luv2safari,

I have no desire to take a swipe at you or anyone else here. If my post was offensive to you, I apologize.

You are correct that I wish to go on more hunts. If I were younger and in better health, I would not hesitate to mortgage the farm to do so. But I hope to retire one day and still have a house to live in and enough money to take my loving wife on a trip or two.

Congratulations on your African hunts. Please share some stories with me so I may hunt elephant vicariously.


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Dave King has taken hundreds of Deer on crop deprivation permits with the 308 win which works very well out to 600 yards at 700 yards Dave has also taken a few but at this distance the 308 is running out of stream with a 175 grain bullet. A 45-70 at 700 yards and well beyound, with those 500 or so grain bullet will still pass completely through them and kill quickly. The heavy bullets carry a lot of momentum and penetration, plus the large caliber leave a good size wound channel and is not velocity dependant to do so



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I think you'll find that a load of 36 grains of 3031 and a 405 grain cast FN bullet will be a pleasant load to shoot in the Ruger No.1 or the 1895 Marlin It gives about 1300 fps give or take, and will blow through a hog or elk like so much cheese.

The trick is to have an IMPACT VELOCITY around 1200 to 1220 fps which keeps the nose from flattening on impact and allows the bullet to penetrate. It gives a big hole in and a big hole out and a dead animal without destroying a lot of meat.

My pet load in my Marlin is either the 457193 Lyman FN at 420 grains or the 457121 Lyman FN at 480 grains and 70 grains of 3f black powder. You're looking at 1250 fps and LIGHT RECOIL with the black powder. With the 480 grain bullet, you shoot through both shoulders of a 1600 pound bull bison at 84 yards, DRT. With the ladder sight, the 480 grain bullet is good to 500 yards and beyond in the Marlin. Just sayin'...

Last edited by sharpsguy; 03/16/10.
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Great thread!

Irrefutable proof.....

Dang, where did John Moses go?


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Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter:
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Originally Posted by Big_Redhead
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Originally Posted by Big_Redhead
It appears to be in vogue for African hunters to malign the 45-70. Maybe they just can't deal with the fact that they spent so much hard-earned money on ridiculously expensive rifles when a five-hundred-dollar Marlin levergun has been proven effective against all the species on this planet. That would make me a little sick too.

Duck911, get the 45-70. They are just a bunch of fun to shoot and load for, and they kill game extremely well.

By the way, the range limitation resides with the hunter, not the caliber. A 45-70 will kill game at any range the shooter can hit the vitals. The same is true for the 30-378 magnum or 50 BMG. Words to the effect that the 45-70 is a short-range cartridge is pure horse pucky.


I use moderately priced rifles appropriate for the job at hand. Elephants have been killed with a 22, but that doesn't make them elephant guns. So...take a good swipe at me because I mortgage the farm to go to Africa, while you only wish... wink


luv2safari,

I have no desire to take a swipe at you or anyone else here. If my post was offensive to you, I apologize.

You are correct that I wish to go on more hunts. If I were younger and in better health, I would not hesitate to mortgage the farm to do so. But I hope to retire one day and still have a house to live in and enough money to take my loving wife on a trip or two.

Congratulations on your African hunts. Please share some stories with me so I may hunt elephant vicariously.


You, Sir are 1st Class in my opinion. cool If I ever get the herns to go back one last time, I would love to have you along with me, so we could swap great lies. wink wink


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They are very popular here in Alaska. Yet I don't know any one that has them for their main "hunting rifle". I carry a 1895 Marlin 45-70 quite a bit in the summer and one is some times in the wall tent in the fall. It is "customized". Has a 20" barrel, holds 6 405 gr. Kodiak Bonded Core bullets over 54 grains of H322. Has the XS Sight Systems Receiver Sight and a good recoil pad. I have had it for years and like it. I have never shot a critter with it. I know it will kill any thing up here but when I go hunting I take a .338 or 30-06.

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I don't disagree that a 45-70 is a wonderful old round that can be used at amazing distances to take animals of all size and shape. It puzzles me as to why there was ever an interest in developing bottle neck rifle cartridges at all! After all we defeated the Spanish and their 7 x 57 Mauser's using 45-70's and 30-40 Kraigs! I am beginning to think I need another one of these rifles..just because! smile


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Some people just hate certain calibers and there is no fixin it in there minds..I have my calibers I wouldn't own if someone gave me one, and the 45-70 has it's.

My three ain't going anywhere infact my son is throwing in his 45-70 Guide Gun this morning to go work in Elk City for a few days as his Taurus(24-7) 45 acp, is jamming again.Makes a great rack gun..

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Why buy a 45-70? Because it is effective, tested and .... it is cool!

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Originally Posted by logcutter
Some people just hate certain calibers and there is no fixin it in there minds..I have my calibers I wouldn't own if someone gave me one, and the 45-70 has it's.

My three ain't going anywhere infact my son is throwing in his 45-70 Guide Gun this morning to go work in Elk City for a few days as his Taurus(24-7) 45 acp, is jamming again.Makes a great rack gun..

Jayco


I love Elk City and Dixie!! How is the elk population this year?

BTW, I don't hate the 45-70...just not crazy about it for my needs and country. It does make a fantastic mountain lion gun, however. cool


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Quote
I love Elk City and Dixie!!


I do also.I wanted to move there several years ago and got out voted by the wife and kid.I used to log there and haul logs into the old mill,there.I have been there three times in the last week getting firewood so I am going to move up there in a month or so to get wood/fish and chase critters.My sons best buddy grew up there and his Mom,whom lives there, is always calling them for work up there,like today.

As far as the Elk go,I did have to wipe Elk poop off my tennis shoes this last trip when my Lewis Chainsaw winch bit the dust. grin

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Originally Posted by Whitworth1
Great thread!

Irrefutable proof.....

Dang, where did John Moses go?



I think he is licking his wounds. smirk


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Originally Posted by Big_Redhead
It appears to be in vogue for African hunters to malign the 45-70.


http://www.leverguns.com/articles/lupo/lupo.htm

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The LRF makes all of this long range shooting with the 45-70 possible.
At any sort of range over 400 yards any bullet from a 45-70 has such a steep trajectory that even a small difference in range estimation causes a miss or a poor hit.
Very very few people are good enough at judging ranges beyond 300 yards with the necessary accuracy WITHOUT A LRF.

Shooting at silhouettes at KNOWN distances is relatively easy if you are familiar with your trajectory and your ladder sight is accurately set up.

Setting up a ladder sight expertly does nothing if you can't judge the range to the elk within 50 yards of the actual range because there is no time to hit it with a LRF or you don't have a LRF.

That is one of the basic advantages to a high velocity, flat trajectory cartridge, range estimation isn't as critical.

JM was and is right, for most folks, there are far better long range HUNTING cartridges available.

Last edited by nsaqam; 03/20/10.

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I remember Elmer Keith extolling the virtues of the Ruger No. 1S back in the early '70s. Believe he said one guide school or service had its employees all packing Ruger Super Blackhawks and Ruger No. 1S .45/70?

I have a No 1H in .375 that I killed a couple of deer with last season I'd love to trade for a 1S in .45/70.

As far as long range shots, Jeff Quinn had a piece on his e-zine awhile back about having a Leupold custom turret installed on a Scout Scope with his loads dope.

I still ain't taken my ported GG to my friend to have it bobbed, but it's coming. A .45/70 GG would make an excellent home defense weapon; just put a light on it. People think a 230 gr. JRN or HP .451 pill is the stuff, but a 300 JHP at 1,850 would probably smack a bit harder.

I may scope the bobbed GG it if I don't get a 1S. Have had Ashley GRs on it since 2000, never used the factory sights.

Kinda dig the idea of a Cowboy with a ladder sight, if it would work with my aging eyes. I find the Cowboy better balanced to my hands than the GG.

sharpsguy, any reason for a ladder vs. a tang aperture?

Last edited by ColdCase1984; 03/20/10.

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There are several advantages for the ladder over the tang aperture. One is the tang aperture is fragile and easily damaged. Another is that it is much slower to adjust for varying distances than the ladder with the sliding leaf. Yet another is that the tang aperture is just that--an aperture. That means that everything is centered up on the sight picture, and you can't "fudge" the front blade up or down for a slight, instantaneous adjustment for impact if you need to. But another big reason is that the aperture sight does not work as well in really low light as does the open notch and blade of the ladder sight. With the copper penny front sight and the ladder, I have shot coyotes in moonlight. You simply can't do that with an aperture.

I haven't shot matches competitively in a couple of years, but as a result of that experience I have several rifles with the target tang sights. I quickly discovered years ago that these sights do not work as well for hunting as the buckhorn and blade ladder sights that come as standard on a Sharps. The early Winchesters and Marlin lever guns had the ladder sights as well, and for good reason--they work.

I also experimented with a folding tang "hunting aperture" rear sight that is quicker to adjust than the mechanical vernier style sight. With these, you simply loosen the eyepiece and slide it up and down for the desired elevation. These, too, are much too slow to use in the hunting field, and have the disadvantage of being both fragile and in the way.

ALL of the original Sharps buffalo rifles I have examined have the buckhorn ladder and blade front sight. These guys hunted and shot over varying distances for a living, and this is the sight set up favored by them.

After I figured out how they were using their sights, I understood why they did it that way. It is simply the quickest, easiest, and most durable set up going.


Last edited by sharpsguy; 03/20/10. Reason: grammar correction
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