Home Forums Reloading Handgun Reloading Reloading Help for the .45 Auto

I shoot a Springfield Champion in .45 Auto. In the two years I have had the gun, I have never had any feeding problems using factory 3D and Federal Hydra-Shoks. I decided to begin reloading for this cartridge and now have the problem of the gun not locking the shells into the chamber fully. I think the .45 guys call this a short cycle problem.<BR>The load I am using is 6Gr of Unique with an OAL of 1.270 with a 230Gr round nose lead bullet. My factory 3D's are only 1.242 OAl,<BR>could this be the problem? It may also may be my taper crimp is too tight or not enough. Been loading for rifles and straight walls for over 25 years, but never tried loading for an auto. These things are finicky! Any comments or suggestions would be truly appreciated. Thanks. Rick

What I do, when I check my .45 ACP loads, is pull the barrel out of the gun, and try dropping the reloaded rds. into the barrel. They should stop, nice and even with top of the barrel extension, with a solid "thunk". Try some factory ammo for comparison. Your loads should look, and perform, the same. Remember that the .45 ACP headspaces on the rim, so you need enough rim to catch the edge of the chamber. Too short an OAL is OK. Too long could be your problem. Good luck. E.

E. I was just getting ready to shut down an clean my gun. Your post couldn't have come at a better time. What you say makes sense and looking at my cartridges, I may have over crimped them. Under a magnifying glass, it looks as if the factory loads have the casing edge you spoke about. Mine are tapered almost to nothing. I may have been to aggressive on the crimp. I'll keep you posted, and thanks. Rick

The .45 Auto headspaces on the mouth of the case, not the rim. I think that's what you meant to say, E, just wanted to clarify. If cases are proper length, and bullets are not seated out overly far, you might still experience difficulty in chambering due to bullets not being seated perfectly straight in the case.(run-out) (Can you see a slight bulge on one side of the case at same height as base of bullet?) Those fat, stubby bullets are hard to seat perfectly without special dies. LC

Quite right. I don't know what I was thinking. They do, in fact, headspace on the case mouth. And, yes, too much crimp is not good. Again, compare them to factory rounds. E.

You should also be using a taper crimp die as the final step in the reloading process.I load my 230 gr roundnose .45's to an oal of 1.250 and give them a heavy taper crimp and have had no problems with either of my 1911's.<BR>Talker<BR>

Guys, I must be screwing up royal with this loading. I notice the crimp is too tight and yes, LC, some of my cases have a slight bulge if you run your thumbnail up the case. What is the special taper/seat die you mentioned? I use RCBS dies for everything including the .45. As Emericus suggested I tried the ol' drop em down the barrel and to no surprise they did'nt fit. I noticed alot of bullet lube from the cast bullets was also collected in the seater die. I was looking for cheaper plinking bullets when I bought the cast ones, perhaps I should stick to hardball until I learn the tricks of this caliber. Thanks for the input and if you come up with anything else, it really is much appreciated! Rick

A footnote. I've found the Hornaday SWC 200 C/T bullets to be very accurate in my Series 70/Mk.4 Colt. Suggest you clean the excess lube out of your dies and keep trying the cast, or swagged, bullets. They are often very satisfactory for both target, and hunting. E.

Rick,<BR>I wouldn't give up yet ... stiff upper lip, an' all that ... First, mike the dia. of your lead bullet. If it is over .451", this could give problems, but even if .452", I would keep trying. I would recommend backing off on the powder charge just a bit, so that you can safely try to seat the bullet for OAL of about 1.250". (Incidently, I have better luck using W231 with cast bullets.) In your seating die, try to use a "pusher" that closely conforms to the shape of the nose on the bullet you are using. During the seating process, seat the bullet only about half-way, then rotate the case 180 degrees and finish seating with the 2nd stroke. If your seating die also applies the taper crimp, give the case ANOTHER 180 degree rotation, and run through the die another full stroke. (All this is to help maintain bullet concentricity with the case.) If taper crimp is applied in a separate die, do a full stroke, rotate 180 degrees, and another full stroke.<BR> NOTE: If you decide to load the lead semi-wadcutter bullet later, I would recommend that you seat bullet so that you have somewhere in the neighborhood of .015" to .025" of the SHOULDER of the bullet left outside the case.<BR>Regardless of which bullet you use, after seating and taper-crimping, mike the case diameter at the mouth. This should measure from about .470" to .472". If smaller or larger, you need to adjust your crimp die to bring this dia. into spec. <BR>Most problems involving failure to chamber completely are due to bullets being seated cock-eyed in the case. Seating the bullet a little deeper could help, in your case. I think Lyman has a set of dies that may help to do a better job, mainly due to their two-step expander die ("M" die). For an explanation of how this die works:<BR><A HREF="http://www.lymanproducts.com/dieset3.html" TARGET=_blank>www.lymanproducts.com/dieset3.html</A><P>Separately available pistol dies are listed here:<BR><A HREF="http://www.lymanproducts.com/dieset4.html" TARGET=_blank>www.lymanproducts.com/dieset4.html</A><BR>Hope this helps. LC<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Loud Cloud (edited April 03, 2001).]

All good suggestions! I would only add one think I did not see mentioned. FULL Length resize. I had a similar problem and I just full length resized and problem cured.

This is a great site. Lots of good and knowlegable people. As you see the .45 is not my strong point, but that's why I asked! Just came from the loading room where I spent a few hours going back and starting the process over. Was extra carefull on the spec's and adjusted in exact measurements. LC, stiffened the lip and went to work. Dropped the charge of Unique to 5.5GR as suggested, don't have any W231. Miked everything, cleaned the dies and set the OAl at 1.250. Tried E's drop em in the barrel trick and they slid in just like factory. I guess tomorrow I will take an extra few minutes at lunch and go to the range and see how they feed. I'll keep you guys posted on the results, your a good bunch! Rick

As promised, I thought I would let you know how the loading worked out. I took two clips to the range and slow fired one clip to check the feeding and lockup. They all fed fine with no problems. The next clip was rapid fire and agian, they fed and shot like factory. I'm sure I may run into other questions as I get into this more but wanted to update you and again say thanks. No pun intended, ha, but this thing really had me in a "jam". Thanks guys, Rick

Rick,<BR>Hey I don't want to bust any bubbles but the ol' .45 actually headspaces on the "Extractor".Case mouth be darned.<BR>Check the profile crimp,and the base of the case.There is always a slight taper to the .45 case,from head to mouth.<BR>Beware the roll crimp,and the "Factory crimp".<BR>Ol' John Moses figured on a taper crimp.<BR>Myself and "Talker get good mileage out of 5.0-5.4gr AA#2 and seating to mag. feeding depth -.20.Check so that your bullets profile dosn't enter the lands though.<BR>Keep at it!!!!!<BR>Nothing is better for the soul than a couple hundred rounds of .45 in the black and confidence in the stuff gramps trusted for good reason.<BR>I'll try to get "Talker" in here,he's more elequent than I.<BR>Cheers!<BR>E4E

Sorry Rick, guess I gave you bad info., but it has been working pretty well for me. Didn't mean to lead you astray, if I did. Btw, I think E4E meant to say "seat to magazine feeding depth minus .020" (instead of .20"), as long as the bullet isn't touching the lands." Actually, I've heard the opposing views on headspacing for the .45 Auto, but I'm a little fuzzy as to how the handloader can benefit from the "extractor groove" theory, but we do have some control over case length, and that does matter. If the extractor weren't there, the case mouth bearing against the end of the chamber is all that determines the distance of the case head to the bolt face. LC<p>[This message has been edited by Loud Cloud (edited April 09, 2001).]

Loud Cloud- no worries! If you had not a said it, I probably woulda! Good tips!<P>I've done some o what you said!

The taper crimp should remove all of the flare. Crimp to .471". You can taper too hard. I ruined a box of jhp bullets once when I thought, "if a little is good, more must be better" and screwed the taper crimp down extra far. Swaged the bullets undersize...they could be turned by hand. Or pulled with fingers. Miked at about .447". Dumb.

Very interesting. So the .45ACP actually DOES headspace on the rim, be it contact of the case rim against the face of the extractor. So contact by the case mouth against the chamber throat is irrelevant so long as COL prevents bullet contact with the lands. Would have thought it the other way around, within case length parameters. Following the logic so would other straight walled semi auto pistol rounds then headspace by rim/extractor face contact.

It doesnt headspace on the extractor; it CAN, but that's not how it was designed. Plus, via the 38 Super, it's more accurate off of the mouth as well.

The 45 ACP was also originally roll crimped. As tolerances tightened around the competitive use of the 45 Auto after WWII and not battle, dies gradually became almost universally taper crimp dies. Too much roll crimp also gave the condition you are having, so the mousetrap was simplified.

A look at a cartridge schematic will show one max COL, headspace and max diameter of the case mouth with a bullet seated.

I'd suspect some lead shaving or too large a bullet first; it sounds like that's your issue and you've fixed it.

Hmmm is this original post 20 years old, or am I reading the dates wrong? It is late.

Its 20 years old...

Many years ago I polished the feed ramp on my Gold Cup to eliminate feeding problems, It's easy relatively quick and it works.

I don't care if the thread is 20 years old, I had this problem a few years ago.

My fix was using the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Only saying to point out that the same problems are recurrent in hand loading, either on the bullet side or gun side.

Sorry, I didn't mean to disrespect you. Yes, I couldn't agree more. Some of these topics are ageless.