Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns 11-87 20 ga. owners

Anybody have a 11-87 20 ga., real handy and can answer a question?

I've picked up a barely used one, and I suspect there's an internal piece missing. The manual I downloaded from Remington covers 4 different models and 2 gauges, and not every question is answered.

20 ga., only, please. 12 ga., is a whole different story.

Thanks.

- Tom

Other than the size of some of the parts, the internals are the same.. What exactly do you feel is missing? What's the shotgun doing ( or not doing) that makes you suspicious?

Redneck:

This turned out to be a little complicated, but I finally wound up calling Remington on Monday. Yeah, I could have waited to do that anyway, but what's the Internet for, if not to get instant answers?

I bought a used 11-87 20 ga. from a private party who had bought it privately a couple of weeks before. No manual. Downloaded same from the Remington site. No problem, right? Well, yes. One manual for every type of 1100 and every type of 11-87, of which there are four: 12 ga., 12 ga. super magnum, 12 ga. Sporting Clays and 20 ga. of all flavors.

Internals of the 11-87s are not the same. No gas cylinder collar on the 20 ga, for example. No gas cylinder spring on Sporting Clays. The manual specifies some of this, but not all is answered. For one thing, the gas cylinder spring is not even in the parts list for any of the 11-87s! (This manual, of course.)

So I break the shotgun down for cleaning. No gas cylinder collar, no gas cylinder spring and no fore-end support assembly.

Monday morning, I call Remington tech support. Male, middle-aged, no trace of an Indian accent. Hurray, an American!

He says no gas cylinder collar for the 20 ga. (The manual is ambiguous about that.)

He has to check his computer for a minute or so, and comes back to tell me that none of the 20 ga shotguns have a fore-arm support assembly. Only the 12 ga shotguns have them. (Okay, but the manual did not mention that.)

He says no gas cylinder spring for the 20 ga shotguns. I already know the 12 ga. Sporting Clays don't have them, because I own one that I bought new. Okay, I think. That's plausible.

Ah, but then he says the 20 ga barrels have two gas holes. I interrupt him to say the barrel on this 20 ga has four; two going into the barrel and two on the sides of the gas cylinder. (There is also a step cut into the gas cylinder that looks like it would accept a spring.) I then say to him that because there's no gas cylinder collar, maybe there's supposed to be no gas cylinder spring, because the collar is supposed to help keep the spring in place, right? (But I don't really believe this, even while I'm saying it.)

He says wait a minute, he has to check somewhere else. (Sound of tapping on keyboards.) He comes back to say he was wrong. The 20 ga shotgun should have a gas cylinder spring. I say, even thought there's no gas cylinder collar to help keep it in place? Yes, he says, even so. That's what the computer says. I order a spring on the spot.

So, two missing pieces. One, the fore-arm support assembly, is supposed to be missing, and the other, the gas cylinder spring, is supposed to be there.

Geez, I'm telling you. And if I find out later the 20 ga is supposed to have a gas cylinder collar after all, I'm going to be peeved.

- Tom

When I said, 'internals', I thought you were talking about the innards of the receiver, including the trigger plate group assembly.

Yeah, the barrel items can be different, but in the first post you didn't mention that's the area you were refering to..

I note the two things you mention though.. And yeah, they should be there.. The schematic for the 20 does show the gas cyl. collar..

I don't have one in the shop to confirm, unfortunately..

Yeah, I was hoping to find someone who could strip one down right by his computer. Even the Remington guy couldn't do that.

Don't know what schematic you have. The only one I have is the one I download from Remington about a week ago, and it's got omissions on it.

Wait, yours shows the gas cylinder collar for the 20? The Remington guy said no. So either the Remington guy was wrong, or your schematic has an error.

Does your schematic say 20 ga only, or does it cover both 20 and 12 ga?

(And who do you trust more, Remington tech support, or the schematics?)

- Tom

Everything I can find here in my references make it plain they're for 12 ga.. What a pita..

I might have more info this afternoon.. Local store probably has a 20 ga on hand.. I'll take it apart and see for myself..

You're a pal!

Didn't get there yesterday - but I'm going this morning around 9:30..

Well, that was informative... They had one new 11-87 20 ga.. Took the forearm off and noted gas cyl. cover, then some funny-looking ribbed thingy about 1" long, then the normal seal, piston and barrel seal.. No fore-end support assembly and no spring..

One wierd looking shotgun.. It was the only one they had in stock..

When you say gas cyl. cover, do you mean there was a gas cylinder collar? Or do you mean the plastic sort of insert in the fore-end?

And no gas cylinder spring????

That Remington techie was totally wrong! What the hell is he sending me if there's no such thing as a 20 ga gas cylinder spring? Seriously, on my barrel there's two gas holes in the sides of the cylinder and a step, like in the schematic where it shows the spring.

Damn.

Oh, and thanks a lot for the April Fool gag. Douche.

BTW, that funny looking ribbed thingy is the "barrel seal activator". The 20 ga and the 12 ga Super Magnum have them. The 12 ga, and the 12 ga Sporting Clays do not. They allow the system to work with lower pressure shells, the Remington guy said, but he's an idiot, so who knows what the truth is?

- Tom

Got a chance to get a 4-H 20 ga. 11-87 out of storage today. It's a Sportsman youth model.

Here's a picture of what's under the forend, assembled:



Here's a picture with the barrel dismounted and the gas spring removed - it slides over the front of the gas block. The arrow points to a gas relief hole which is under the gas spring. There's one on the opposite side too. There is no gas cylinder collar. I don't see the purpose of the collar except to direct venting gas rearward which may mean something with some variants. Don't recall one on a wood stocked 20 ga. 11-87 that I worked on though. The one in the picture has a plastic stock.



For a diagram use Brownell's 11-87 20 LT diagram Here.

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Oh yeah, the activator thingie. I suppose it lengthens the gas impulse a bit which probably makes the system work better with it's pressure relief vents.

On closer look at the diagram I can see how the collar could hold the spring in place, the skirt on the collar doesn't look as long as I had imagined. On the 20 ga. the spring stayed in place just fine without it last trap season.

Then yours may be an even different variation.. The one I looked at yesterday was literally brand-new - right out of the box..

This is really weird...

I checked the Brownell's diagram two days ago and it's a bit vague re: the gas spring.. Doesn't show it as a part.. And it doesn't label the ribbed thingy either.. I don't know what to call it.. None of my reference manuals show any of this - even the Remington Shop Manual has no info..

Seems like Remington 1100 diagrams are like that too, incomplete or generic. Just like the Remington diagrams Kuhnhausen has in his book. You need to use a little imagination between the list and the diagram.

Pheasants Forever gave us the 11-87 not quite a year ago so it's probably pretty new. Just for fun I've e-mailed Remington for a date.

If that collar fits in front of the spring just to hold it in place, seems like it wouldn't cause problems if a guy wanted to add one. Kinda guessing though, going from those diagrams. One of those undocumented production changes that just drive you nuts?

Guys, I want to thank you for the effort you've put in to this, especially for the photos. Those are a big help.

The spring arrived from Remington today. I'm going to put it in and shoot some skeet on Sunday. If it doesn't cycle, I'll take it out and try it that way!

Makes me wonder if the spring on the 20 ga is all that necessary, anyway, but never having had one of these before, I won't know until I mess with it.

- Tom

With a new shotgun it can take a few boxes before standard 2-3/4 shells eject reliably. Sometimes a few in every round will hang up in the ejection port until parts wear in. Doesn't happen with all 11-87's, but don't give up on the shotgun too soon.

nighthawk:

I bought it used from someone in my gun club who never shot it after he bought it from someone else in another club he belongs to. My seller never broke it down, and the original owner is out of town somewhere for a few weeks. Hence, my search for persons with knowledge.

Even though it's used, it's only had 100-200 rounds through it, according to my seller, and it looks it. The metal is clean and virtually unmarked.

What sold me on it is that the first owner had it fitted with one of Wenig's "Ladies Stocks". Short LOP, high Monte Carlo, palm swell and toe-out like you wouldn't believe. I'll work with it until it works.

And if my wife decides she doesn't like shotgunning after all, I'm going to have a 1" spacer put on it and keep it for myself. I like it. In fact, I'm thinking I'll have Wenig put their "New American" on my 12 ga Sporting Clays. It's a longer LOP, with palm swell, a little less Monte and a little less toe-out.

- Tom

The 4-H guns worked fine out of the box but another that one of the kids had took about 200 rounds before it would eject cleanly every time with light loads. Dustin does very well with it when he concentrates. Took second at State (trap, beginner) two years ago, not so well last year as a junior as girls have become more interesting.

They and the 1100's have been very reliable for us but the mag tube, piston parts and cylinder need to be kept clean and minimally oiled. In fact I clean there with Ed's Red and just wipe dry with a paper towel. If you shoot it a lot a gas cylinder brush that Brownell's sells is a good investment. Carbon buildup in the cylinder eats those Teflon o-ring barrel seals.

Not familiar with the stock but I imagine the extra toe-out feels odd for a guy. The New American pattern with adjustable comb looks interesting.

Guys:

Took it to the range this morning, for the first time, and shot a round of skeet. It functioned perfectly.

Thanks again for your help and advice.

- Tom

Ahhh, a success story..