Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 243 on Elk

I agree, elk are tough game and require more than a 90-100 grain bullet barely making 2000 ft-lbs at the muzzle. Yes premium bullets will get the job done, but a 243 Win does not bring the best probability of success to the table. Especially when we are talking about a young hunter. The 243 Win's reputation is built on really well placed shots by really good marksman. It is a favorite when used for culling, but this activity is for the most experienced of shooters.

I started my elk hunting with a 308 Win and it is a fine cartiridge for that purpose if you know your's and the cartridge's limitations. It is plenty of gun for cow elk, which is what I dedicate it for now. For bull elk, I have gone to the 338 Win Mag over the last 10 years and the 444 Marlin, depending on conditions. The 338 Win really puts em down with 250 grain loads.

As a minimum for her, I would stress a 140 grain 6.5mm (Rem or Swede), 150 grain 7-08 Rem, but would say the 165 grain 308 Win may be the best fit of all.

We know most western states require a minimum of .23 caliber on big game. Yes the 243 Win is legal, but does that mean its prudent. Col. Townsend Whelen's standard is a pretty good one. Have 1000 ft-lbs at impact for deer and 2000 ft-lbs at impact for elk (his experience and observations led him to this). Perhaps outdated advice by todays standards from bullet design, but none-the-less, I believe it has some merit.

Consider that a 243 Win can barely make 2000 ft-lbs at the muzzle with 90-100 grain bullets. Consider also that it has 1700 ft-lbs at 100 yards, 1500 ft-lbs at 200 yards and 1250 ft-lbs at 300 yards. Now I know energy figures don't mean alot these days, however, it is a way of drawing some measure or standard of a cartridges potential on game. Forget about using optimum gain weight figures, the 243 Win on bull elk does not shine very brightly.

Maybe JJs right, some consider the anchoring of big game like elk with a 6mm an equivilant to winning the yearly Broward County Light Anglers award. Catching a 30 lbs Cobia on a 6-lbs test line is quite a feat, but then again losing a once hooked fish is nothing like losing a wounded majestic elk.

JJHACK stated:


I�ve been hunting Colorado�s elk for 20+ years, and during that time have talked to a fair number of hunters who were looking for one that ran off after being shot. More of these involved a young hunters and a .243 (Colorado�s minimum elk caliber) than any other caliber. One involved the most magnificent bull I have ever seen, another involved an illegal shot (taken form a roadway while the hunter�s dad cheered him on) into a herd of cows. When nothing fell, the father and son got in their truck and drove off. Another case involved a bull we never saw, but we saw fresh blood in the snow for three days running � I don�t know how an elk could lose that much blood and keep going. In this case the shooters gave up on the third day.

If the shooter is recoil sensitive, I would suggest a 7mm-08 or 7x57, a lightly loaded .308 or even a .30-30 before I would suggest a .243.

JJ, your point is well made. After blowing around that earlier bit of hot air I will add that for my daughters first elk rifle I outfitted her with a 7-08 equipped with a muzzle break, firing 140 gr bullets - not a .243. My oldest daughter uses a .300 win mag.

Quote:
�With the muzzle brakes out there now there's no reason to not use enough gun. I'd rather see someone use a .270 or a .308 with a brake on it and give the benefit to the elk but that's just me�

Steelyeyes, good shot placement is the most important issue regardless of caliber. You are correct; a muzzle break does allow people to shoot larger calibers without the associated discomfort of more recoil. But, I will stand firm in my belief that a break does not necessarily promote better shooting. In many ways people or more likely to flinch from excessive noise and excessive muzzle blast then they are from slightly more recoil. The point being, I think a younger shooter will shoot a 7mm-08 with 140�s or a 308 with 150, better than they will shoot a 270, 30-06 or 7mag with a muzzle break. Case and point, my 10 year nephew has been lucky enough to shoot 2 deer in the last year. The gun he prefers to shoot is his father�s kimber 84m in .308 with 150�s. He shot one of his deer with his father�s 280 that has a muzzle break and said his ears were ringing after the shot and he was afraid to shoot it again. Not to mention, he got a face full of dirt and leaves because he shot a gun with a muzzle break from the prone position. He shot the other deer with the .308 and found that gun to be much less offensive. That little 84m is pretty light and recoils a lot more than is 9 pound 280 with a muzzle break, but he will shoot the .308 better every single time because he is not anticipating the discomforting noise and muzzle blast. I have a 7mm-08 Kimber in the gun safe and my boys will not hunt big game until they are proficient with that gun. Yes, I might be able to start them sooner or possibly let them shoot a bigger gun if I added a muzzle break, but I don�t think I would be doing them any favors.

Ted

Flinching is learned at the range, where you're supposed to use hearing protection, eye protection, and you can even wear a recoil pad like the PAST if you like. In the field I rarely even remember hearing my muzzle blast although I'm sure I do.

People even learn to flinch from shooting a bow...and they can learn to not flinch shooting the very same bow with practice.

If you're shooting next to a person with a brake I also recommend long sleeves because they spit burning propellant to the sides too. They are much louder to shoot next to than behind. My wife weighs all of 130 lb. and she can drill holes like no buddy's business with my .300 Mag. with a MagNaPorted barrel so it's possible to learn good shooting habits even with a brake.

Good point.

I didn�t say you can�t shoot well with a break (your wife has most likely shot a lot more then my 10 year old nephew). I am stating that �young� hunters (which I think this thread is about) are often more sensitive to noise and muzzle blast than to slightly more recoil. Like you, I don�t really notice muzzle blast when I am shooting at game, but you and I have shot a lot of centerfire rounds over the years and pretty much know what to expect when we squeeze the trigger. This is all fairly new to young hunters. Also, I think kids are a lot more sensitive to stronger pressure waves and noise then us old farts. I was at the range with my six year old and he had earplugs and headphones on and commented that every time the guy next to me pulled the trigger his body shook and he could feel it in his chest. I asked him if my gun was as loud and he said not even close. The guy was shooting a 7mag with a muzzle brake and I was shooting a 300 wby without a break. Kids can tell the difference even when wearing hearing protection. I just think young ears and muzzle breaks are a bad combination

Just as a side note to this with magnaport.

at one time I had a model 70 300 weatherby rifle 26" barrel. My best hunting partner liked it so well he bought the exact same gun and scope combination. He actually made an X under the front of the stock so we could tell them apart.

He somehow got this wild idea to send it off for magnaport. When it returned we went to the range and shot for a few hours. The only difference we felt between the two identical rifles with the same handloads was the slight pressure on your face from the muzzle blast of the magnaported rifle, and a little more noise. Watching each other shoot we also agreed that the magnaport muzzle jump was a bit less off the bags. Maybe 2" less.

However there was absolutely zero difference in felt recoil. Neither of us could feel even a tiny difference between the two guns. Since this revelation we have both spoken to a number of folks who have had the four port magnaport cut into their barrels and none expressed any reduction in recoil. Muzzle lift was noticed by most, but recoil reduction is non-existant. I think you would need some calibrated test equiment to prove one way or the other. No human shoulder could "feel" enough of a difference.

Magnaport makes a system called "Magnabrake" which is an actual muzzle brake and works wonderful. The "Magna-port" is a waste of time effort and shipping expense. I don't know a single person who has sent them their rifle and had it returned to be happy with the recoil reduction it provided.

JJ,
I agree with your observations on Magnaporting. I have a .454 FA, scope mounted and ported. The only thing the lack of muzzle jump does is redirect all that recoil directly into your wrist and arm! About 20 rounds is all I can tolerate at the range.

I don't know about the recoil reduction from experience. The gun was built with the barrel that was MagNaPorted from day one. I do know that my .300 with the porting and synthetic stock weighs less than my Sako Finbar .30-06 and it has less felt recoil. It might be the design of the stock, although the shapes are pretty identical with the exception of the fore end.

When this barrel gets burned out and my groups get too big I'll go with a real brake. There weren't that many out back when I had the rifle built.

The way I got my kids worked around recoil is a lot of shooting with .22s or air rifles so they learn good skills there. Then move them up to a hunting weight rifle but don't have them shoot so many rounds at a time that they get hammered. Then go back to the .22. It helps to have the same sight system (scopes for us) on both weapons.

My daughter's rifle is a .308. It's a tiny Model 7 that weighs almost nothing and has a very straight stock. It kicks like it has a grudge but she can still make it hit because it fits her and she learned to shoot first.

Realistically you don't need a lot of rounds through your hunting rig to be able to shoot it well enough to hunt, unless you want to snipe at long range but that's not for beginners.

I'll have to agree that the muzzlebrake idea is bad news for anyone's ears... let alone youngins.

I can also vouch for the .243 on elk. I got two in Washington state when I was living in Seattle during my Coast Guard days. 100 grain core lokt or Hornady sp will do the trick. But....as always....pick your shot carefully!

.264, most here are saying the .243 is fine for Elk and many of them have far more experience than I have but I still strongly disagree. Of course the caliber with the right bullet placed perfectly when close up will roll any elk that ever walked. That does not mean a .243 is an Elk caliber! What happens when the range isn't so short, the angle perfect, or you just plain screw the pooch and put that little bullet in the wrong place? It can all happen with bigger calibers as well but you unquestionably have more "slop in the system" with something bigger if things don't go like the textbooks say they shood. I don't know about you, but Mr. Murphy is always looking over my shoulder. I don't always get the perfect angle (read never) or the short shot, and thought I hate to admit it I have made a few shots that were less than perfect. An expert hunter capable of getting very close and putting the bullet precisely where they want it may find the .243 workable but I doubt any kid qualifies. In my opinion low recoil is simply not a sufficient excuse for using a marginal caliber like a .243. Many may disagree, but regardless of the game being hunted, ground hog to elephant, the hunter owes it to the animal to use enough gun to get the job done under the worst circumstances reasonably imaginable or stay home.

CoBrad, This has been my experience too.

Worse Case
I watched a 14 year old shoot a broadside cow at 150 yards with a .243. The cow was hit hard right behind the shoulder and still standing. I told the boy to "shoot her again" and his dad said "naw, hit good". The cow proceeded to put itself together and take off with its calf. A few miles of deep snow and mountains later I got the kid another shot and he put one in the neck. While gutting her out I found one lung destroyed and no exit wound. Using a factory 100 grain load. With something that penetrates better it is likely both lungs would have been taken out. Premium bullet or bigger gun.
I grew up with a guy who only used a .243. Neck and head shots inside 100 yards and he never missed or needed another shot. Not what I would advise others to do either.
I do not think you need a massive magnum, just good shot placement with a good bullet. I know one hunter who has killed a dozen elk or more with a 25-06 - including a nice 8x7.

To get a youngster started, I like what a buddy did. He has two Rifles of the same make and model. One in .243 and one in .308 (has muzzlebrake). He let his kid practice at the range and in the prarie dog fields with the .243 using smaller bullet. When elk hunting time rolled around he put the .308 in his hands and said the brake made it shoot like a .243. When a shot was presented, the boy shot and the elk went down. Like any other first time hunter he never even noticed the recoil or the noise.

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