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#4017835 04/22/10
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I am considering having Pac-Nor build me a 28 inch 3 groove rifled, super match 22-06 on a Ruger M77 Action I own.

The purpose of this gun is long range shooting, for the fun of long range shooting. Varmints now and then. No serious purpose is intend.

Where would I find information on this cartridge, what are your opinions on muzzle brakes (it will be shot with ear plugs always),contours (I am considering the medium Palma), fluting, twist rates, powders, scopes, and bullets.


I know many will wonder why the Ruger, but I love my Rugers.




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You really should contact Ross Seyfried. He has done this and written articles about it. Look for his number in the magazines, in the advertisements for Elk Song Ranch (IIRC). Somebody correct me if I got the name wrong.


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I recently heard through the grapevine that Ross is no longer at Elk Song Ranch, but the grapevine could be wrong.


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Originally Posted by siskiyous6
I am considering having Pac-Nor build me a 28 inch 3 groove rifled, super match 22-06 on a Ruger M77 Action I own.

The purpose of this gun is long range shooting, for the fun of long range shooting. Varmints now and then. No serious purpose is intend.

Where would I find information on this cartridge, what are your opinions on muzzle brakes (it will be shot with ear plugs always),contours (I am considering the medium Palma), fluting, twist rates, powders, scopes, and bullets.


I know many will wonder why the Ruger, but I love my Rugers.




If I may give you a little advice from experience, what you have proposed is a recipe for disaster for a couple reason's.
My nephew had a basicly inentical gun a few years ago a 22-284 Pac-Nor 3 groove 1-8" twist. it was a nightmare because this chambering is wayyyy too over bore and combine that with a 3groove barrel and there are very few bullet's that will make it out the muzzle intact, the 75-80gr A-Max wont, the 75-80gr VLD Berger's wont. the only bullet's that will shoot in this combo are the Sierra Match King's 69-80grains.
If you have your heart set on the 22-06 so that you can shoot these other bullets a 5 or 6 groove barrel is a must.
Then the other thing to consider is barrel life.....500-600 rounds top's and it will be toast.
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It's a barrel burner.


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I'd go .22-243. But, I suspect you are dealing with a long action, so there's a chance it wouldn't feed too good.

Give a thought to 6.5mm if you are thinking long range, bunches of good flying bullets in that diameter.

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Muledeer,
I talked to Ross not long ago and he was still there! I'll give him a call.

For long range shooting I would think the 22 caliber a bad choice, as it tends to drop off in velocity and it certainly is wind sensitive IMO...

Personally I would opt for a 30 caliber or at least a 6mm. but thats just an opine on my part.

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22-6mm is a monster as well.

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Originally Posted by atkinson
Muledeer,
I talked to Ross not long ago and he was still there! I'll give him a call.

For long range shooting I would think the 22 caliber a bad choice, as it tends to drop off in velocity and it certainly is wind sensitive IMO...

Personally I would opt for a 30 caliber or at least a 6mm. but thats just an opine on my part.


Shore nuff. Ray, the folks that do the 22/XXX bit are muzzle velocity blind. They can tell you within a few fps what she does at the muzzle, but are immune to logic when it comes to downrange stuff, like retained velocity due the BC, which is at least partially dependent on SD. When you show them what happens to a 200 grain partition (BC of .56) compared to a 45 grain .22 at distances from 400 out, they almost always come up with the "yea, but" that goes with denial.

Yea, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but at least you will listen and nod, knowing that a 375 shoots just as flat as an '06.

Wayne

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Yea but, I already shoot 200's out of my 300.

I have a 220 Swift and know about light 22 caliber bullets.

I just don't see the .223 as the best platform for the heavy 77 to 90 grain .223 bullets with high SD's out there, because it is velocity challenged.

I would be interested in the 22-6mm or 5.56X57 because the gun I want to use is a 7X57 now.




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How about a .220 Swift with that barrel?

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Quote


If I may give you a little advice from experience, what you have proposed is a recipe for disaster for a couple reason's.
My nephew had a basicly inentical gun a few years ago a 22-284 Pac-Nor 3 groove 1-8" twist. it was a nightmare because this chambering is wayyyy too over bore and combine that with a 3groove barrel and there are very few bullet's that will make it out the muzzle intact, the 75-80gr A-Max wont, the 75-80gr VLD Berger's wont. the only bullet's that will shoot in this combo are the Sierra Match King's 69-80grains.
If you have your heart set on the 22-06 so that you can shoot these other bullets a 5 or 6 groove barrel is a must.
Then the other thing to consider is barrel life.....500-600 rounds top's and it will be toast.
B


Tell me more about the theory behind not using 3 grove, because I saw others advocating it.



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PS - I have not consulted th Pac-Nor people yet. So nothing I am asking should reflect on them.


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I've know an internet guy who shoots P-dogs a LOT and he whacks them out to 500 yards (lasered) with a .223. Pretty regularly. Beyond that, he goes to 6mm.

He wears out barrels with the 6mm, and probably with the .223, but he shoots a lot of rounds. I forget how many rounds it takes him, I'm thinking 4000-6000 rounds. He uses muzzle brakes on his rifles so he can see the bullet strike and adjust in case of a miss. I don't know if that has any affect on the barrel wear, would suspect it doesn't.

Being way overbore channels the heat down to a narrow opening (the bore) and cuts it away much quicker.


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Originally Posted by siskiyous6
Yea but, I already shoot 200's out of my 300.

I have a 220 Swift and know about light 22 caliber bullets.

I just don't see the .223 as the best platform for the heavy 77 to 90 grain .223 bullets with high SD's out there, because it is velocity challenged.

I would be interested in the 22-6mm or 5.56X57 because the gun I want to use is a 7X57 now.




+1

The heavy .224" bullets turn all this "6mm is better" talk on it's head.

The 90gr Berger Match Target VLD has a BC of .551 which is HIGHER than any of Berger's 6mm bullets.

I like your idea of the .22-06 and if there were varmints where I lived I'd build one.


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Berger recommends a 1 in 7 twist for the 90gr .224" bullets.


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If your looken to play at long range.

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

We asked GA Precision's George Gardner why he chose .243 Winchester for his Tactical Comp Gun. He replied, "Why would I run anything else? Think about it. I'm sending a .585 BC 115 at 3150 fps--that'll shoot inside the 6XC and .260 Rem with ease. I'm pretty sure I have found the Holy Grail of Comp Rifles. There are no brass issues like you can get forming .260 brass. I don't have to worry about doughnuts, reaming necks--none of that. And the choice in brass is great too--run Lapua if you want max reloads and great accuracy. Run Winchester if you're on a budget, and so you won't cry if you lose some cases in a match. I can get 10-round mags, and feeding is 100% reliable, since the case is identical to a .308 except for the neck. Accuracy-wise, I don't think I'm giving up anything to the .260 Rem or the 6XC." We then asked George if he'd considered using a .243 AI instead: "Yeah, the cases look cool with that 40� shoulder, but I think the standard .243 feeds a little better. And I don't think I really need the extra performance of an improved case. Run the ballistics for my load--115 moly DTAC at 3150 fps. You've got less windage than a 2950 fps 6.5-284, with cheaper brass, cheaper dies, cheaper bullets, and less recoil."

The thing about a 22-06 is that not only will your barrel life suck.Your case life will too.Your gonna eat cases like crazy.Its alot of work.
For high speed 22 stuff.I'd run a 22 CHeetah.Excellant case life.Not uncommen to get 20-25 reloads per case provided you dont get carried away.
Gardner and Tubbs stuff are pretty hard to beat.And you dont have to re-invent the wheel.
I'd skip the Pac-Nor for a Rock.Today,tommorrow and yesterday.

dave


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Originally Posted by peepsight3006
Originally Posted by atkinson
Muledeer,
I talked to Ross not long ago and he was still there! I'll give him a call.

For long range shooting I would think the 22 caliber a bad choice, as it tends to drop off in velocity and it certainly is wind sensitive IMO...

Personally I would opt for a 30 caliber or at least a 6mm. but thats just an opine on my part.


Shore nuff. Ray, the folks that do the 22/XXX bit are muzzle velocity blind. They can tell you within a few fps what she does at the muzzle, but are immune to logic when it comes to downrange stuff, like retained velocity due the BC, which is at least partially dependent on SD. When you show them what happens to a 200 grain partition (BC of .56) compared to a 45 grain .22 at distances from 400 out, they almost always come up with the "yea, but" that goes with denial.

Yea, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but at least you will listen and nod, knowing that a 375 shoots just as flat as an '06.

Wayne


The 22 caliber 90 grain Berger VLD has an advertised BC of .551. The 90 grain Sierra HPBT is listed as .504. BC is BC regardless of caliber, and I totally understand the desire for the 22-06. It would be a long-range, low-recoil toy that I think would be huckuva lot of fun. Yes, it is overbore and not very practical from the standpoint of longevity, but that just goes with the territory. As long as the man paying the bills understands that going in, it is his decision. I say go for it!

Again, talk to Ross Seyfried. He has BTDTBTTS.


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Originally Posted by siskiyous6
Yea but, I already shoot 200's out of my 300.

I have a 220 Swift and know about light 22 caliber bullets.

I just don't see the .223 as the best platform for the heavy 77 to 90 grain .223 bullets with high SD's out there, because it is velocity challenged.

I would be interested in the 22-6mm or 5.56X57 because the gun I want to use is a 7X57 now.

With a good Swift and a 7 x 57 you're in pretty good company. Even the Swift can't burn all the powder the case will hold without a blinding flash and a roar enough to scare a critter to death. Chrome helps out there a bit, but a 22/06 is like necking the 50 BMG down to shoot sewing machine needles. Neat ideas but worthless after a couple hundred.

Wayne



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do a 22-6mm instead I don't think you can push a 22 bullet any faster than what that case can, I love rugers too, they are my favorite rifles, but lets be honest smiths hate working on them and there are very few options with stocks etc. do up a winchester instead. its got all the features the ruger has but with alot more options.

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