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#4027353 - 04/25/10 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these?  
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Fischer Offline
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My .444 wasn't hurting me enough, so I added an older micro groove 1895 to the arsenal. Fortunately it came with a nice fat decellerator recoil pad installed. I loaded up some 300 gr Hornady HPs over H4198 and at 59 gr chrono'd 2418-2420, which is a remarkably small spread. (I've never seen that before) Also remarkable was that I came close to the published velocity of 2424 FPS with a grain less of powder. I think I read somewhere that micro groove barrels are "fast". (my 444S chrono'd some good speeds too) Anyway, I stopped at 59 gr. I haven't mounted a scope yet, but even without the added weight, recoil wasn't as bad as I expected, except that it rapped my knuckles - I see a larger lever in it's future. Calculated recoil is around 42.5 lbs. Pretty fun actually...

Who out there (if anybody) is using this bullet on deer and hog? I know it will kill them deader than disco, but how messy?? The bullet is designed for rifle velocities, so I'm hoping it holds together.
With a 6" killzone this is a true 200-215 yd load, a pretty versatile rifle.

Thanks!

CMG 300 BP

#4027383 - 04/25/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Fischer]  
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I've used them, at a tad over 2200 fps, and they do ok. I prefer the Speer UniCore, but for deer the Hornady will work, but may be somewhat frangible at 2400 fps.

I've never used them on hogs, so I can't comment there.

#4027482 - 04/25/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Vic_in_Va]  
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I have them loaded up for my Marlin 1895SS with 55 grains of IMR 4198 for 2250 fps. They'll go into 1.5" for me at this speed. This load is what I'll be carrying after bears this spring. So far the only thing I've shot other than paper and milk jugs is a coyote. Results were pretty cool. I started out pushing them at 2400+ but backed it down a tad, recoil was fierce.

With a 1.5" zero at 100 yards, I'm only 4" low at 200.

Last edited by BillyGoatGruff; 04/25/10.
#4027577 - 04/25/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: BillyGoatGruff]  
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I shot a deer once with a .45/70 300 gr. HP (a Remington bullet, but it sure looks a lot like the Hornady) that was loaded to over 2200 fps. in a Ruger Number 1. The range was about 35 yards.

The bullet fragmented when it struck the spine and, believe it or not, total penetration was only 5 inches or so. It put the deer down but a finisher was required. When I shot the deer in the neck from 6 ft. away with the same load, smoke came out of the bullet hole and the bullet did not stay together. There was no exit on that one either. I was very unimpressed by the 300 gr. JHP bullet's performance at the maximum speed possible from a .45/70. It acted more like a varmint bullet than a big game bullet.

Those bullets do seem to work well on deer from what I read at the factory velocity of 1800 fps or so, but for fast .45/70 loads I think a 350 gr. JSP is a better option for deer and a 400 would be better for the big stuff.

Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 04/25/10.

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#4027721 - 04/25/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: wildhobbybobby]  
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Well, I'm pretty sure that anything you shoot in the spine is going to need a finishing shot, the spinal column not being a vital organ. I don't know how similar it is to the remington bullet. The hornady's have 2 cannelures, presumably to help hold it together, I haven't seen the remingtons. I definitely want a bullet to make it all the way through, but if it puts them down in their tracks, I don't know how important it is. Maybe the 350 fp is a better choice...I'd like to hear from some other hunters.

Alpha

#4028693 - 04/25/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Fischer]  
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I've heard over and over that if you push these too fast they will nuke. I'm waiting to see. FWIW I've spined several deer that didn't need any finishing.

#4029114 - 04/25/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: BillyGoatGruff]  
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I sure wouldn't use a 300 grain HP bullet at 2400fps out of a 45-70 for bear. You will get a big bloody mess and not much penetration. You will be much better off with a 400 grain bullet at 1300 to 1500 fps. Trust me.

#4029497 - 04/26/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: sharpsguy]  
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Winchester factory 300 grain HP bullets at 1875 ft/sec penetrated three steel gas drums, and tore the first side of a fourth for me. The jacket and lead separated on impact with the fourth. I was impressed. But like sharpsguy, I think the shine on the 45-70 is with a slower bullet. My 1895 seems to like either a 350 or 405 bullet around 1500 to 1600 ft/sec. Slower would work just as well.


"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

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#4029637 - 04/26/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: the_shootist]  
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Fischer Offline
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Thanks for the input guys. It's sounding like the 300 grainer might not be the way to go...

#4029779 - 04/26/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Fischer]  
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Fischer, I think the bullet is ok, you're just pushing it too fast. That same bullet at 18-1900 fps. would be ok for deer.

Nothing wrong with a 300 gr. bullet, I use a 300 gr. nosler partition for practically all my hunting, out of my 45-70, but even nosler says don't go above 2300 fps, or the bullet won't work like it's supposed to. If you need a tougher bullet, for that speed, you may want to look at the Barnes offerings. JMHO.

maddog

Bravo

#4031580 - 04/26/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: maddog]  
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Fischer Offline
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My 444S and the Hornady 265 fp is looking better and better.
But, I really really needed a 45-70, right? Doesn't everybody??

Seriously though, I'll probably end up with a heavier bullet.

I could just tote my '06 or 300 mag and have it covered, but these big bore lever guns are so damn cool and they handle like a dream...so closing the gap to 45-70 range ought to just add to the fun.
Thanks for the advice!

#4031714 - 04/26/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Fischer]  
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If you think a .45/70 with 300 grain bullets is cool, wait until you try it with 400's!


Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...
#4032204 - 04/26/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: wildhobbybobby]  
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Fisher I got to ask, how did you come by that load? According to my reloading manuals, your only 10 Grains over the listed MAX LOAD for an 1895 Marlin in 45/70 caliber. Yeah, I think you must be misreading or your typing is like mine perhaps......Bad to the bone.

Perhaps you best check your Chrony too!!! I just grabbed onto the new Hornady reloading manual and it has the 45/70 (1895 Model) at MAX LOAD of 48.7 grains of IMR4198 powder and a velocity at 2100fps MAX. Even the Ruger #1 is listed at 2200fps with 53.3 grains of IMR-4831.

Nosler lists it's load MAX Load for the 45/70 (1895) at 51.5 grns. powder and velocity at 2228. How do you get 2400fps? Please let me in on your secret because I would love to get that kind of velocity out of my 45/70 Marlin.

I shoot mostly the Hornady 350 grn. bullet out of my Marlin 45/70 1895 model, at a velocity of a pleasing 1500fps (very accurate) using H-4198 powder at 40 grains of powder. The hunting version of a load is a 400 grain bullet loaded with H-4895 at 53 grns powder, giving 1860fps in velocity.

Last edited by Tonk; 04/26/10.

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#4032757 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Tonk]  
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Tonk, thanks for your concern. Well, it's not exactly my little secret - it's from the Hodgdon reloading data table for 45-70 lever actions. See below, I pasted it in. Max is 60 grains of H4198 but even with IMR4198 it's 57.2 for almost the same velocity. I got this velocity with no signs of excessive pressure and I'm very pleased. I've been reloading since the mid '70s and still have all my fingers, etc. As with any new load or new can of powder, I approached this load from the recommended starting charge and worked my way up, inspecting each fired case for signs of pressure. Possibly, this will change your perception of me as either a liar or an idiot.

check out the Hodgdon site http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp and try their load. I rarely achieve published velocities but, in this case I was pleasantly surprised. I can't promise you'll get the same results from your rifle, but you ought to be able to get close anyway. My bullet was the Hornady, but probably Sierra and Speer will give similar results. I read that the Nosler and Barnes bullets produced higher pressures, so be careful there and as always, approach with caution.


Filters

Load Type *Cartridge Manufacturer
Bullet Weight
Powder




Cartridge: 45-70 Government (Lever Actions)*
Load Type: Rifle
Starting Loads
________________________________________ Maximum Loads
________________________________________
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
________________________________________
300 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4064 .458" 2.525" 59.0 1858 20,300 CUP 65.5C 2125 28,700 CUP
300 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4895 .458" 2.525" 58.5 1800 19,900 CUP 65.0C 2087 30,000 CUP
300 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H335 .458" 2.525" 61.0 2073 22,500 CUP 68.0 2326 38,800 CUP
300 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 3031 .458" 2.525" 58.0 1971 21,900 CUP 64.0C 2196 29,500 CUP
300 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H322 .458" 2.525" 57.0 2002 21,400 CUP 63.0C 2252 32,600 CUP
300 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 4198 .458" 2.525" 53.7 2293 33,100 CUP 57.2 2407 39,100 CUP
300 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H4198 .458" 2.525" 55.0 2221 27,600 CUP 60.0 2424 40,000 CUP


You can also go to handloads.com and see that other reloaders have gotten similar results. http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/d...ype=rifle&Order=Velocity&Source=


#4033637 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Fischer]  
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I am somewhat puzzled as to why the 45-70 has to be hotrodded. The 300 grain bullets of just about ay flavor work great for fairly big critters at the 1800fps. I have had my perceptions altered by using my old Sharps. As a rsult, I am working in 2 cast bullet loadings that use a relatively soft cast (20:1) bullet at a relatively mellow (1400fps) vel. The Marlin appears to like both and using an old style barrel sight (ladder), the range settings are quite accurate. MUCH easier on my rifle, brass,shoulder and powder supplies while giving performance that is near what my old buffler gun gives. I don't think these things will bounce off of much. Match a rifle sight like mine to the loading you use and it can and will kill BIG critters farther away than you might believe.


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#4033741 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: EvilTwin]  
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I don't think I said that it HAS to be hot rodded, but on the other hand, I don't know why anybody would leave hundreds of ft lbs of energy and a couple feet of trajectory on the table in a hunting load. As long as chamber pressure is safe, I wouldn't consider it hodrodding anyway. Trying to get more out of a cartridge than it can safely produce would be hotrodding. I want this to be a 200 yd deer rifle, about the longest distance I might see a deer at, walking out of the woods and onto a clear cut. I have shot deer under such conditions and hope to do it again. The recoil doesn't bother me and is in my estimation, highly overrated - I expected much worse. It's just my preference and I respect everybody else's preferences. I'll probably work up some heavy cast loads too, but one thing at a time...

#4034393 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: EvilTwin]  
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Originally Posted by EvilTwin
I am somewhat puzzled as to why the 45-70 has to be hotrodded. The 300 grain bullets of just about ay flavor work great for fairly big critters at the 1800fps. I have had my perceptions altered by using my old Sharps. As a rsult, I am working in 2 cast bullet loadings that use a relatively soft cast (20:1) bullet at a relatively mellow (1400fps) vel. The Marlin appears to like both and using an old style barrel sight (ladder), the range settings are quite accurate. MUCH easier on my rifle, brass,shoulder and powder supplies while giving performance that is near what my old buffler gun gives. I don't think these things will bounce off of much. Match a rifle sight like mine to the loading you use and it can and will kill BIG critters farther away than you might believe.


The reason I try to run mine at 2200 fps is that I use a .30-30 quite a bit, and I am attempting to emulate it's trajectory. I've been using the .30-30 for a long enough time that the trajectory is second nature to me, and duplicating it seemed like a good idea (one less set of figures to remember).

Recoil is just a bit different, though. crazy

If I were hunting larger game, I do have a couple of loads that run a 430 grain LBT style gascheck at 1650 and 1800 fps, and they will shoot through just about anything I want to hunt with that rifle.

#4034799 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Vic_in_Va]  
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It ain't complicated for me, I wanted to flatten that rainbow a little bit.

#4034844 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Fischer]  
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Fisher.......I am going to look your load up indeed! I just picked up my Hodgdon manual dated 1979 and low and behold they do have the 45/70 load listed but here is what they say on page 185 of that manual.

45/70 HEAVY LOADS FOR RUGER OR MARLIN 45/70 ONLY!

300 Grain Bullet, Powder H-4198 at 52 grains, Velocity 2123fps.

300 Grain Bullet, Powder H-322 at 60 grains, Velocity 1965fps.

It just strikes me a little funny that your telling me that Hodgdon states you can do this and my manual says different but so does Hornady's new manual and Nosler Manual also. Something just doesn't sound like everything with your load listed is spot on mate.

I will have to do some further checking on this high velocity load and powder amount. So far I have 6 reloading manuals that say your load far exceeds safety measures.


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#4034937 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Fischer]  
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Tonk Offline
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Fisher I went to that Hodgdon sight on reloading information and did indeed get surprized by the listing of the load you yourself listed in your original post. They do have that 300 grain bullet going 2400fps with that load you listed. I don't really believe I will ever try to push my 45/70 Marlin that fast and really don't care to get into that 40,000 psi range of pressure with my Marlin 45/70 lever gun. I too have been reloading since the mid 1960's. You load of course sent up a red flag to me right away, since no one else has a reloading manual that lists anything close to your posted load. Cheer's!

Last edited by Tonk; 04/27/10.

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#4035088 - 04/27/10 Re: 45-70 Hornady 300 gr HP - anybody hunting with these? [Re: Tonk]  
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Tonk, give it a try. I hit that velocity a grain under max and with zero signs of excessive pressure. Extraction felt like an unfired round. I loaded a couple at 60 grains but only gained something like 13 fps - but, from 55 to 59 grains, I got big jumps. I'm just looking for trajectory that suits my kind of hunting, while carrying a big bore lever gun. I will say that in all of my reloading efforts, my two Marlin big bores are the only rifles that have actually hit or surpassed advertised velocities. Micro groove, perhaps???

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