Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska 357 magnum enough for bear?

going to AK ...is my 4" 357mag enough as a backup gun?

A strong .357 with a full house 180 or 200 gr hardcast load is bottom rung for bear protection. In reality you are highly unlikely to have a bear problem.

Depends.

Back-up for what, loaded with what, and shot placement.

IMO!................NOPE! Not a 4" 357 mag.

Black bears,,,,yes!......."BIG" BEARS??,,,,Absolutely NOT!!!

A 44 mag imo, would be a bare minimum for the big bears.

Much better back-ups for the big bears are the,,,454 Casull,,,460 S&W,,,500 S&W,,,and if you`re a single action fan, a 45/70 is available from "Magnum Research" along with the above choices from Magnum Research as well. They are BIG!!!

A handier 4" barreled double actioned 500 S&W would be my top pick (I gots one), followed by the S&W one revolver two cartridge combination of the 460 S&W and 454 Casull in the same barrel length.

A 357 for big bears????..........NO! NO! & NO some more!!!!

I wouldn't go buying a handgun for that "just in case" moment you will probably never experience. The way I see it, your 357 is better than nothing and should that moment arrive where you need to use it, it will be at close range. Hit him with the first 5 and if that don't stop him, save the last round for yourself.






J/K of course.

I don't know a lot about Alaska bears. Got a ton of "face time" with Oregon black bears. I'm pretty sure what is inadequate for Oregon bears is even less adequate for Alaska bears. With that in mind ..

I don't consider the .357 mag in any way adequate for black bear protection. When that's all I've had available to carry, I loaded it for 2 legged social situations and approached bear considerations as if I were unarmed. Don't let the puny gun inappropriately influence your "bravery" w.r.t. bears.

I'm not a huge proponent of bear spray, I like lead dispensers instead, but if all I had were a .357 I'd sure as hell pick up some bear spray.

Tom

hmm I have a glock 20 in 10mm how about that?

currently have some 125gr bonded stuff I think it runs about 1525-1550fps ~600ft lbs? Think I have some 158 bonded running 1300fps


in the 20 in 10mm I have the 180gr double taps which are bonded...think those are running 1350fps 728ftlbs

also have the 155gr barnes tac xp all copper stuff like these running at 1400fps 675ft lbs

Take a look at the DblTap 10mm 200 gr WFN GC @1300fps
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/ca...05&osCsid=jv48g1eul9glsiu4o66e6hulb0
I'm absolutely no bear expert, not even a novice. But I wouldn't feel quite so naked in bear country with a Glock full or those. If a problem arose I'd just shoot him for a while and hope he dies before killin me. Betcha they'd penetrate some.

.................The way you see it, your analogy is a brilliant piece of work!!!.......NOT!!!..................Why risk it!!!

Buying a more powerful handgun for that,,,,"just in case moment",,,,CAN SAVE ONE`S LIFE!!! And is a very cheap price to pay for added insurance against a BIG bear.

It`s those UNEXPECTED just in case moments that can suddenly arise with little to no warning, where being under-gunned can certainly get one either mamed or killed!!!!

Whether it is needed or not, buying a more powerful handgun IS worth the price for added defense on a hunt, especially if hunting alone.

If that's what you got, then it's big enough. Save the last round to shove in his mouth. When you hit the back of his throat, touch 'er off.

well I have no problem buying a bigger gun IF i have to. Doesn't sound like 10mm or 357mag will do the job.

Fisherman killed a brown bear on the Kenai a few years ago with a 9mm. Not my choice at all, but if a 9 will do it, a 357 properly loaded will as well.

A strong 357 will push a 180 gr 1200 fps from a 4" barrel, and that'll penetrate the skull of any bear. As with any gun, you have to make the shot count.

Just remember, 95% of the people who give advice on bear guns have never even seen a grizzly or brown in the wild, under 1% of those giving advice have been uncomfortably close to one in the wild, and 0.00001% have had a DLP event.

Like Ironbender asked "backup for what?" Will you be hunting, fishing, sightseeing, or what? If you will be rifle hunting, why do you need a handgun backup? Even a .30-30 rifle is more powerful than a .357 pistol.

Don't get me wrong, I often carry a pistol while I'm hunting. I currently have two .357 mag pistols and two .44 mag pistols. I have only hunted in Alaska once. It was a DIY caribou hunt some friends and I did on the peninsula, SW of King Salmon. I carried my .44 mag Super Blackhawk. I didn't need it, but I just wanted to carry it.

Years ago, when I lived in NW Montana a friend and I were fishing in the back country. We both carried pistols, he a .357 and I my .44 Ruger. When we stopped for lunch, we decided to do some plinking at saucer sized rocks. His .357 would knock the rocks down, maybe breaking them in half. My .44 mag would shatter the rocks into gravel.

In 34 years of hunting the Montana back country, the only grizzly encounter that I've had was one year near West Yellowstone. We were camped at the end of a road, and we had a moose and two elk hanging in the stock rack in the back of my truck. One night I went outside to check the horses, etc. just before turning in and a 300 lb grizzly 10 yds above me on the bank started to snap his teeth at me. I had the lantern and was carrying my .44 Ruger. I fired one shot in the air over his head. No reaction. I fired another shot into the tree next to him. Again, no reaction. So I picked up a tennis ball sized rock, threw it and hit him. He ran off and we never saw him again.

I've killed a couple of balck bears with pistols. Both were one shot kills, but the bears were not charging. To kill a charging bear, I would want as much firepower as I could get...and you have to be cool enough to shoot it accurately. I guess a .357 would be better than nothing.

And, as you've posted several times Paul, most people don't practice enough handgun to be proficient *enough*, let alone when the teeth are coming at you at 30 MPH!

Almost any rifle is better than almost any handgun.

That said, my wife carries a 357 with Buffalo Bore HC 158s when we are riding. I'd rather she carried something bigger, but she doesn't like anything bigger and would not shoot it as well as the 357.

Placement, bullet, cartridge.

Good advice right there from someone who's been there done that....well stated Kurt.

fishing and sight seeing...backpacking. Guess it would be the only thing I'd be carrying. so good question "back up for what?"

yeah I guess it all comes down to shot placement. With a charging bear. At least with a handgun I would think the only option is to try to get a head shot? Or maybe with a 454 or 500 there would be enough there that a head shot is no longer required?

This is one more thread where the people who don't live here and, in some cases, have never even been here, are busy telling us how we're wrong. It's really pretty funny sometimes, and just silly others.

1200 lb all pissed off starving to death brown bears can't be stopped by .357's shot poorly -- there is no doubt for that. Of course, such bears essentially don't exist... The 10' male bears almost never present a threat to anyone -- it's the 300-400 lb females hanging around the edge of the feeding frenzy in the stream that are dangerous. Of course, if you can't hit it right with a .357 you still can't kill it -- but then you can't with a .458 Magnum rifle either -- if you can't hit it right.

The simple reality is, if you can hit it lethally at close range, you can kill a threatening brown bear with a .357, assuming good, solid bullets for penetration. As noted, they have been killed with even lighter firearms, like the fisherman with the 9mm. The primary issue is not the firearm -- it is the shooter.

And paying attention will go massive dimensions away from bear issues at all, which you tend to understand if you live here, and don't if you don't.

Dennis

Sometimes I think bears, especially big brown ones, are the most stressed and stretched excuse for buying another gun.

I really could give 2 [bleep] if you like my analogy, I didn't write for you. Tell us how many brown and black bear attacks you've experienced. Yeah, that's what I figured, zero, nada, zilch, none. Walking through the wilderness in Alaska being paranoid about bears is no way to experience this great state. Your probably one of those guys that carries a 416 rifle and 500 SW handgun while hunting, THAT makes a lot of sense.

I'm sure there is a reason to carry a handgun and not a rifle but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

Which brings up the question, what caliber of rock do you recommend? Should it be a magnum? Or maybe a +P?

Well stated as usual, Dennis.

The eternal but seldomly asked question is:

How big a cartridge is necessary to make up for a bad hit?

I would say fine for black bear....just put one behind his ear.....and NOT ok for the bigger bears. .44 mag or larger for big bear backup.

If I remember right that guy lucked up and caught the spine and put the bear down.

.........................Even though you didn`t write your viewpoint for me which I realize, it nevertheless doesn`t make your posted viewpoint immune from some healthy criticism, which by your reaction you didn`t seem to handle too well.

I experienced NO bear attacks when in Alaska several years ago on my successful big bear hunt. I didn`t own a 416 back then and don`t own one now. But I do carry a 500 S&W sidearm in big bear country. Carrying a sidearm did and does NOT make me "paranoid", nor did it eliminate or detract in any way from my great Alaskan experience. Nice try, but some wrong assumptions there on your part.

Even though the odds of a big bear attack might be one in maybe several thousand or even several million or whatever the odds may be, I nonetheless take no chances regardless of those very slim odds. Imo, which is contrary to your opinion, that makes alot of sense.

I'll be happy to explain it to you.

Try chopping brush with a machete, cutting firewood with an ax, or casting spinners or flies with a rifle in one hand. Doesn't work. You can sling it on one shoulder but it'll keep falling off. You can sling it across your back but then it's too slow to get to, might as well not have it. You can set it down, but then it'll be some feet away when you need it.

If you're working outdoors, or even recreating other than hunting, you need your hands free or you might as well not be there. A handgun is really the only viable option you've got.

At least, that's how it works out for me.

Tom

If you say so.

If you've got enough time to unholster your pistol, you've got enough time to get that rifle off your back. Doesn't take but a second or 2.

This topic has been beaten to death and all the sound advice offered up by the locals , as per usual, goes unheeded because the so-called, "I hunted Alaska once" experts from outside know better than we Alaskans.

A couple of days in Alaska and they know EVERYTHING, pretty typical of dipshitt Californians

I know approximately as much about stopping bears as I do about getting along with red headed girl friends, but Phil Shoemaker wrote that his daughter sometimes carries a 357 instead of a rifle when guiding fishermen. I think Phil has seen a bear, and may even have shot at one once.

Fred

Can a 357 stop a bear? Sure, but so can a sharp stick if the stars align right. I'm of the opinion that you can't carry enough gun, but then again, I'm just paranoid that way.
After seeing a medium size griz absorb 12 rounds from a combo of 375HH and 416 Rem, they earned my respect. I've also seen em fall over dead very quickly from one shot from an 06 though.

How about shooting bears that ain't charging with a 357?

If'n I have my druthers, I ain't ever agin shooting a bear with a 357, black bear or brown bear, chargin' or sleeping!

I ain't never been to Alaska, but was charged once by a mother black bear with 2 cubs in New Mexico, of all places. Still here to tell the about it, but that is another story.

I know one thing...I would have felt a whole lot better that day with any 6 pound 30-30 Win carbine than I would have with a 357 in each hand.

Just sayin.

well if a bear is chargin I figure I can maybe get 2 to 3 rds off if I'm lucky. That said...am I THAT much better off with a shoulder shot with the 500sw vs the 357mag or 10mm ? Or at that point am I just fcked?

Define shoulder shot cuzz they tend not to charge sideways. Pard managed 1 shot on a bear that charged him. Lucky he was in an open area, as it started when the bear was 70 yards away.

Forgot to mention it was a 3 legged bear also.

LUCK

uhh inch or two to the right or left ...just missing head lol

yeah I know I know if you don't hit head yer F'd

The 357 Mag is plenty!! You just cock it and shoot yourself just above the right ear. Beats having to watch Ursus Horribilus rip your guts out and crush your stupid skull.

"Never take a knife to a gunfight". Don't use a pellet gun for deer or a 357 for Griz either.

Wayne

I know i don't live in Alaska, but I think that most people take bear defense a little bit too seriously.

wayne, well how about 10mm

Why would you want to? If it aint charging, it's not a DLP and there's no reason to shoot.

I can think of several good reasons to shoot bears that are not charging...

..............Since I appear to be the only one who lives in Calif on this thread, I can only presume that you were referring to me as the typical "dipshit" Californian????..........Btw! There`s only on "t" in dipshit there Mr. Genius!!

This has nothing to do with whether one has only one day of hunting experience in Alaska, two days of hunting time in Alaska or a thousand days of hunting time in Alaska!! Nor does have to do with how many bears one has killed or not killed. This has to do with common sense should that 1 in a million event occur, such as a serious confrontation with a big bear THAT COULD turn very deadly where any split second can make a difference.

Either way you cut it and with some serious practice, a handy short tubed revolver holstered correctly in a good location is quicker than a rifle to get into action should that unexpected surprise ever occur.

No matter how small the odds of a bear attack, I`d much rather be an alive typical "dipshit" Californian rather than a dead (from a bear attack) arrogant Alaskan.

you have 2 time zones on him, please don't keep him up too late....

I would not want to face a grizzly bear with a .357 magnum no matter what type or weight bullet you had in the pistol. Now when a bears button has been punched, it grows in size and becomes more massive to the human eye. I have been up close and personal with a couple of bears in my time and they can absorb a lot of lead, especially if you don't hit the bears "Central Nervous System". Once had a bear charge our group and 7 shots hit that bear in various places but the one to the head dropped it on the spot. It was a bullet from .338 Winchester magnum rifle.

I would not want even a .44mag pistol for bears, it would have to be at least the .454 Cassul in power. If your going to carry that pistol, you best be doing a lot of time at the shooting range as well or carry a jaw of vasoline in your back pocket when the time comes. Bears don't give pistol shooters a second chance.

Good way to make them charge.....laffin!

If you shoot yourself just above the right ear with a 10mm or 40 cal it will either kill you or at least render you unconscious while the bear has his way with you. Either way you won't feel your hide come off in big hunks.

Silly damn thread is getting worse all the time. I give up. If the bear doesn't charge, don't shoot at it. If it does, we'll see how dead you can play whilst Mr. Bruin eats you.

Wayne

When I first moved to AK I bought a 44Mag for bear protection, as that what all the guys in FL said I needed. I can't say I've ever carried it.

Cuzz I know Royce hunted bear with a 357. You do know people hunt, right?

I'd be more inclined to back up my rifle with another rifle.

But [bleep] head to describe you seems to get the point across better than bleep head. I'm thinking you and common sense seldom collide but keep going it's fun to watch.

Course I've seen more bears in a week than you've seen in a lifetime but that obviously don't mean much to the graduates of the Jeff O School of Idiocy.


Waiting for the tirade of being a playboy because you played stinky finger with little Sally Winters in the 4th grade.

I'm thinking anyone who is comfortable staring down the sights of a 357 pointed at a brown bear at close range is someone I can outrun. They would surely have balls the size of grapefruits.

I've seen firsthand what good bullets in a 45 Colt can do to a bear with questionable intent, looking at said critter across revolver sights of the same is hardly comforting. Give me a rifle- at least in a bigger revolver caliber- preferably (though I do sometimes carry a revolver that will deliver a 300-400 grain bullet at sonic speeds or so- and it has been useful.)

.............This is how Mr. Steelhead replies. A superb level of maturity! States alot without stating anything related to the subject!

You been drinking or smoking something perhaps????....... Tirade??,,,,Playboy??,,,,,Sally Winters??,,,,4th grade??,,,,Sticky fingers??....You must be extremely high up on the genetic totem pole with such marvelous comments related to the subject matter!!!

I don`t care if you see bears in your sleep or if you see thousands per day or how how much experience you have. That has nothing to do with anything!! It just means you`ve seen alot of bears!

And if you ever happen to ever get to So. Calif, please, please, please, please, by all means look me up!!! [bleep] is very easy to call someone on a thread who is several thousand miles away. However, in person to someone`s face directly, is quite another matter. We`ll share some tea and crumpets and have a good `ol time!!!

And btw there Steelhead!........Again! Please come to Calif. That`s assuming of course that you can leave your localities located somewhere between Flippant and Glib!!!!!!!!!

AMEN

FWIW:

I never been to AK. But many of the local fishing guides here in Ory-Gun split time in the AK rivers.

The general consensus is that a 375 (H&H or Ruger) is a bear defense weapon.

That being said, most of the Fishing guides carry that thing between their ears for bear protection.

If you placed me in a Defense of Life situation tomorrow, I would use my Remington 870. Because that is what I have trained with and have become most proficient with. It also has pretty good power and can be loaded with 400 grain nosler partition sabot loads:

Good luck.

Oh--If your wife is asking, you need a new gun!!!!

BMT

Cuzz I know Royce hunted bear with a 357. You do know people hunt, right?[/quote]

I just don't know anyone silly enough to go chasing bears with a 357 I guess. I don't think the original poster was asking about it's suitability as a hunting round, instead more of it's suitability as a defensive round.

I've seen first hand what a 357 does to a 3 year old black bear, at a range of 4 feet, lets just say I wasn't impressed with it.

Being one of the .00001 percenter's ,I still don't think I would be qualified to say yeah or nay on your question.

That being said I read some where years ago that a Wild Life Officer I believe in Wyoming was Jared off of a live trap during the release of a Grizzly and he Killed it with a .357.

All Bear charges don't start at 100 yd. across open water and clearings.Some come at 15 feet.

I've seen the video...he shot it from above at about three feet. The .357 worked just fine, because he put the shots into the spine and chest. And was deeply concerned with his situation, being cross-legged over the bear in the back of a pickup... .

I may be slightly biased by living here and everything, but I would be a lot more likely to pay attention to the outlooks of fellow Alaskans than people who live in big cities in highly populated, but brown bear free, states.

Just saying...

Dennis

I don't how this line of reasoning supports his need to BUY ANOTHER GUN!

I think it is a bit amusing that people will justify using a "big rifle" for hunting moose during bear "out" months on the one hand, but think a rather puny revolver might be okay for their defense. (Not saying any individual here fits both criteria, but the two lines of reasoning seem to coexist around here.)

But, I should talk, I just took proper "just in case" medicine (358 Norma) with me on a quick rabbit jaunt. Yes, those Speer or Hornady 250 grain SPs kill our local hares just fine (and I wasn't inadequately armed should I have run into old Ursas.)

Wow, you're even more [bleep] up than originally thought. Pretty impressive.

But I weren't asking the original poster.

This topic again..lol

I ain't qualified to tell you a 357 is good/bad..I guess if the bear was on top of you, it beats a knife.

I've wrote the story before, but one time while hunting bear in Idaho, I had a stare down @ about 15 feet with a sow Griz..my rifle was leaning against a tree out of reach, I was [bleep] basically.After a few seconds, she woofed a few times (she had cubs) and took off, thankfully I wasn't between her and her cubs and she just loped off.

Its a bad situation to be in for sure, I'm not confident I could have stopped her with a handgun if she decided to come..but thats just me and my lack of shooting confidence with them.I'd been better off with bear spray..I keep my rifle close now while glassing!

"...I've seen the video...he shot it from above at about three feet..."

I remember that video some years ago. It was in Montana. Some fast shooting, as you said handshake range. Bad idea to lift the door while standing on the culvert trap, it would seem.

That is the precise reason I often keep a large bore revolver available. I like to carry one when the possibility of that happening seems likely.

Bear and culvert trap
If I remember correctly, that warden had trapped a "black bear". He knew it was a black because there were no grizzlies in the area, and he had released many blacks while standing on the trap. When the door opened, the blacks would scurry away. Well, this time, when he opened the trap, the "black bear" had somehow turned into Mr Long Claws and was somewhat less charitable about his brief incarceration, and was going to give the warden a brief course in constitutional law, as interpeted by grizzly bears. I think the episode took place around the ennis area.
If I have screwd up any or all the facts here (which I am apt to do), please feel free to correct me.

Fred

Might be two different incidents.

The one I know of happened in '87 or '88 in or around Glacier Park, and the guy knew it was a big grizzly. The reason it got filmed was that the annual conference of the Outdoor Writers Association of America was being held in Kalispell, and the bear guys asked if any of the writers would like to watch and film a grizzly being released from a trap. Didn't work out quite like they expected.

By the way, the bullet that killed the bear was the last in the 6-round cylinder. The previous five had all hit the bear in various places, but didn't penetrate anything vital. In fact at least a couple hit the skull and then slid off between skull and hide to end up at the back of the head. The 6th went into the bear's mouth and throat, and broke the spine.

I also heard, however, that the bullets were typically soft 158's, not really designed to get inside a big bear's skull. There are .357 bullets today that will do that job, however.

I was fishing in Alaska in 2008 in an area with LOTS of brown bears. The closest encounter was with a big female that came out behind us on a gravel bar and wasn't happy about it, partly because she'd just been chased downstream by a nitwit woman who was trying to take her photo with a point-and-shoot.

Our guide was a very well-known brown bear outfitter from the Alaska Peninsula. The bear was 15-20 feet away and the guide whispered for us to just stand still. Meanwhile he slowly drew both is big can of bear spray and...his .357 Magnum.

Luckily he didn't have to use either. Since we stod still and didn't threaten her, the sow eventually just turned away and left.

Since this guide has seen LOTS of big bears taken over the years, and is a very savvy gun guy, I would guess that whatever load he had in the .357 had been tested on bear skulls.

And the other side of the deal is that with any handgun, at close range the only real chance you have is to put one in the brain.

Had a situation in Ak with a Black that would not let us alone. Tore up our tent while away, then when we came back with Goat meat and hide, he kept messing with us. Hissing and snapping at around 30yards. We would scare him away-he wouldn't go far-and then he would sneak back and start over. Guide finally said I think you should shoot him. I said we are going to have enough of a problem getting off the mountain without a bear hide to carry.

Got late and we crawled into the torn tent with the Goat hide and left the meat outside. During the night he took the meat.

All worked out well for us, but Chris said if he had it to do over we would of shot him, because now it thinks he can bully people out of their meat and the next group may not be as lucky.

Also a rainy night with a wrecked tent can cause its own problems.

So yes DLP can be justified without a charge.

To the original question. Just me, but in a charge situation it would be hard for me not to want a 12Ga. Not much can take a full load of shot in the face at 30yd and under and not say no mais. What say those with experience?

It didn't work that way for a couple of pheasant hunters here in Montana a few years ago. They jumped a mama grizzly in thick cover and when she charged they shot her in the face with birdshot, at less than 30 yards. She beat up one guy and then disappeared in the brush. Game wardens found her later and she was still alive and plenty pissed off. Luckily the wardens weren't carrying bird guns.

Thanks,

Another semi-original thought that failed when faced with reality.

............Well, come on down to So Calif then and FIX me up!!

so basically if you get charged by a bear a head shot is the ONLY option?

If you want the bear to stop or be incapacitated at the shot, you have to take out the central nerous system, i.e. brain or spine. Shots that will be fatal eventually really aren't much good, as a "dead" bear can be very dangerous.

The reason I say the 357 is up to the task, is only a CNS shot will stop a charging bear, and a heavy hardcast from a .357 will reach the brain or spine just as effectively as a 44, 45, 475 or 500. None of those more powerful handgun rounds placed somewhere are going to stop a bear, they also need to hit the cns.

For hunting, you aren't limited to a cns shot, hence the .357 isn't the best choice.

As a conversation with a former co-worker who sought advice about a bear defense handgun went. Him, what type of handgun do you recomend for bear defense? Me, are you an expert shot with a handgun? Him, no. Me, do you plan to put in the practice to become one? Him, no. Then a handgun will be useless to you, get some pepper spray and don't be stupid in the woods.

It would be my focus at close range, even if all I had was an axe.

db

Shoot them under the chin.........

Most Californians seem to have a touch of Little Man Syndrome...

Here is another prime example.

Bet you don't think a .223 can kill a deer do ya?

Mule Deer
Yea, it could be two different stories... Or it could be that I'm just not getting my money's worth outta that dam medication.

fred

They sure as hell know how everything should be everplace else. Pretty compelling all things considered.

I thought that was Texans !!!!

Some guides I know when inquired by a Texan "sorry all booked up" ... when a Cali-hunter calls "did I mention the sur-charges".

Nah, the belt buckle crowd just lets you know how everything is better where they came from.

..........Words are only words!! But you can join Steelhead and come on out then!!!.........I`ll be happy to show ya both some of that, as you put it,,,,,,,,"lil man syndrome!"..............

And btw, a 223,,,,can kill a deer!! You`d lose on that bet too!!!

Notice that none of us are debating with you about whether you actually know things about firearms and hunting in California?

Worth considering...

Dennis

the real question is can you maintain your composure and make your body respond to your brains comands when you are being charge by 500 or more pounds of brown,and can you put a round in 4in moving circle when you don't know wheter to s--t or go blind

4" is the window of opportunity size? yikes!!

Which is one reason that many people in bear country carry both a handgun AND pepper spray--if for some reason they can't carry a long gun.

One of the more interesting stories from here in Montana took place maybe 10 years ago. A couple of guys were out bowhunting in notorious grizzly country. One guy had a handgun (I believe a .45 Auto) and the other had a big can of pepper spray.

They chanced upon a mama grizzly with cubs and she started acting aggressive. Apparently she didnt actually charge but the guy with the .45 got nervous anyway and started blasting away. He hit her once or twice, neither fatally, and then she did charge, and got him down and started chewing on him.

The other guy ran up with his pepper and sprayed her in the face until she left. Then he got his partner semi-patched up and out to the vehicle and to a hospital.

Well I just read this whole thread, while I don't shoot handguns much I would think a 357 would be a whole lot better than say a rock, Are there better handgun cartridges for the task, yea but the chance of getting into trouble are quite slim. Take the gun if it makes you happy, I rifle or a good properly loaded shotgun is more to my thoughts on the matter, never mind about all the bs you have to go thru to transport a pistol these day. Never mind about exercising a Consitutional right. Or you could just file off the front sight so it will not hurt as much. There is a school of thought on that very subject. Have a great trip.

FWIW -

This always popular topic came up on Kifaru forums some time back. After all the guys with actual experience said "understanding bear behavior is most important", and after all the guys with actual shooting experience said "a rifle is a better choice than a pistol", it still came down to what an adequate handgun caliber might be.

I've always said "the biggest thing you can shoot quickly and accurately". Think about that for a moment... It's easy enough to look at specs and say the minimum acceptable caliber is a .454 or whatever, but can you actually hit anything with your pet hand cannon?

Finally I posted a bear gun challenge. Draw from holster (or however you carry), shoot 2 rounds @ 10 yards, post your times and group size. That may or may not have been a realistic standard, but at least it was a standard. Only a handful of people participated and posted times, but the data was interesting nonetheless.

NOBODY posted pistol times with a bullet heavier than 250 grains that was going faster than 1350fps. That was with a .41 magnum. People posted times with bigger bullets, but at velocities closer to 1000fps. People posted times at higher velocities, but with bullet weights closer to 180. All group sizes were inside of 5".

I'm still waiting for the proponents of the really hot chamberings (like Garrett's 310 grain .44 doing 1325) to post a time and group size. I'm truly curious to see if the guys carrying these monster loads can shoot them with enough speed and accuracy to be of any use.

well I talked to a few bullet makers etc. Consenus seemed to be

1. you want really high sectional density.
2. you dont want a jhp
3. said you probably want 1200fps at least
4. said hardcast flat point probably the best bullet.
5. said you want to get as many shots on target.

so high sectional density

.355" 357mag 147gr =.167, 158 = .179, 180gr = .204, 200gr =.227

.400" 10mm 180gr = .161, 200gr = .179, 220 =.196

.478" 454 casull = 335gr = .209 360gr= .225, 400gr=.250

.530" 500sw 400gr = .203, 500gr .254


based on those #s the 357mag doesn't looks so bad.

forgot to ask them what the difference between hard cast and FMJ was.

could someone tell me please

9mm 147gr lol looks like one could get 1200fps from a full size gun ...maybe that is how the guy killed the grizz with a 9mm!

357sig 147gr 1300fps from full size gun hmm wonder if you could get 1200 from 158gr

357mag 158gr 1400fps 4" , 1300fps from 180gr , 1200fps 200gr

10mm 200gr 1300fps from glock 20, 220gr 1200fps.

based on those #s looks like the 357mag 180gr load is on par with the 10mm 220gr load. almost like the 357 better cuz I can shoot it better. I've shot a 454 casull before and that is an a$$$ load of recoil. I think I could get more shots on target with the 10mm or 357 faster.

...............As some others have, nice try in trying to change or divert onto another subject. Worth considering? I know everything that I need to know about firearms and hunting here in Calif.

But as always, the little digs and blurbs (subject changers) keep on flying that have nothing to do with anything.

Bottom line! When I`m in big bear country, hunting or otherwise, I`m wearing my very handy and fast 4" barreled 500 S&W. Now if some of you don`t wish to wear a sidearm and feel it is totally un-needed, then be my guest!!! It can`t get any simpler than that.

Once again, you cleverly misunderstood everything any of us have tried to get across to you...no big surprise, given that you just don't get it. Or don't want to.

Son, you can carry whatever kind of pistol and rifle you want to, even when you come inside our lines to hunt here. We actually don't care what you like and what you carry -- that has never been the point. But when you've been here a few days once, under guidance of an outfitter and others -- stop thinking you know what to tell people to do here. And certainly don't imply that your knowledge is somehow superior to the experience of people who live here, just because you feel superior to us.

That is all. Do what you want...it's just fine. Just don't keep shooting your mouth off disagreeing with people who have spent vastly more time here than you have. Some of them, I suspect, have spent more time here than you've spent alive...

Carry on to suit yourself, of course...

Dennis

so just how thick is a bear skull...where you need to hit it?