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I'm still of the "kid" mentality about liking wider tires because they look cool, but everything I read tells me the narrower ones (like the 235s you mentioned) are better in ice and in snow. In sand, though, wider is better.


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and mud as well.


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Originally Posted by Partagas
Maybe I should start its own thread but both of my buddies have a diesel. One is a duramax and the other a cummins. They each say for offroad they suck. They are too heavy I guess. They start sliding too easy or slide on slick side grades sideways way too easy. They each said they have never been stuck more times than since they have gotten their diesels.

I am considering a 3/4 ton and am torn on diesel vs gas and wondering what say you about the offroad issue?


Your friends are spot on. When I got my 2500 ram cummins in 06, I proceded to get myself stuck 3 times within a month of getting it in the snow (got it during thanksgiving) I'd never gotten my toyota truck stuck in the 12 previous years. Part of it was the crappy factory tires, but the other part is that massive heavy engine in the front.

Diesel trucks are great for pulling heavy loads on the road. They are a poor choice for an offroad vehicle.

If I was building an offroader, I'd stick with a 1/2 ton truck. Plenty of people have pimped out and lifted diesel trucks to look like offroaders, but I've yet to see a serious offroad truck that is a diesel.

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All the above is why I keep my 97 7.3 Ford with 300 thousand on it. It just keeps working

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Originally Posted by pyro6999
Originally Posted by sdgunslinger
I've had no problem with my Cummins offroad , but I will say; ON the road in slick icy conditions it is one of the best vehicles I've ever been in.

I think the extra weight over the front axle keeps it tracking straight and true......

yeah i think the extra weight of the diesel engine along with the heavier suspension front and rear helps a lot. my boss has an f-250 7.3L and he put 235/85's on it just so it would hook up better on slick roads, he gets around most of the winter in 2wd where i in my 1/2 ton have to drive around in 4wd.



I also run the 235/85 tires on mine.....IME wide-ish tires suck on snow and ice

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Strick, not so for mud!!! Now back in the days of the model T and model A Fords, they used narrow tires because 95% of the roads back then were not paved, some rock yes. Many turned real soupy once the rainy season hit.

Those narrow tires would go right on through the mud without hanging up and that is another reason why they had running boards back in those days.


They also did not need a ton of horsepower to propell them through the thick stuff, there was little resistance to those narrow tires.


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Dirtmover, I have a friend who has a 1999 model F-350 Ford truck with a new clip on the front 2005 and his engine, a 7.3 diesel has over 385,000 miles on it and still going strong. He gets 21mpg empty on the highway driving 70mph. Pulling he got 16.5 and that was 12,000-lbs of trailer, horses and tack. He had a 100hp-chip installed at 250,000 and said it worked great!~ He is on his 3rd Ford tranny though, not to bad considering the miles and what he pulls every weekend and hauls trailers for his business.

Last edited by Tonk; 02/02/10.

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Rule on tire width and traction:

MUD- wider tires are better. You want to "float" over the mud. Large lugs that clear well, need wheel speed to spin the tire and clean out lugs to get a freah bite into the mud to "paddle" you along. You don't want to "dig down" into the mud.

Snow- narrow is better. You want the tire to "cut" through the snow to get down to where there is something to get traction on- dirt-rocks- etc. You want to dig down through the snow.

Diesels can make just as good off road vehicle as a gas. Yes, the extra weight is something to contend with, but off roading comes down to some pretty basic things. Tires- a big part of it and ground clearance. For more advanced off roading you can get into disconnect sway bars, lockers, and such. However, for the typical hunters off road situation a lot of it is going to come down to the rubber.

I have seen several Dodge Cummins set up pretty nice for off road.

Hemi

Edit to add: A good set of tire chains goes a long way in either mud or snow!

Last edited by Hemi; 02/02/10.
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What's a good mud, snow, ice, and rain tire that is E-rated and gets 50k miles w/o alot of noise?


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Partagas, just my two cents. I've got an '07 2500 5.9 Cummins Quad Cab 4x4 and a '95 2500 5.4L(360ci?) Ram. Both have the same tires and I will take my '95 off-road over my '07 every time. I love both trucks but the Cummins definitely doesn't like being finessed when you need to go eeeaaaasssyyy. Never had an engine growl at me when I push on the brakes until I drove my first Cummins laugh. Cummins engines don't like to be reigned in IMO. That's why I love it too.

I think your friends are probably right, although I wouldn't go so far as to say they suck off-road. Side by side I'll take the gas engine for off-road and when I need to pull my house off it's foundation I'll use the Cummins. smile

Scott

This has been an informative post. I just called my dealer and made sure they used the proper filters when servicing my truck. Good to know. Thanks guys.


The church is close, but the road is icey. The tavern is far, but I will walk carefully. -Russian Proverb
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3/4 ton trucks are not for off roading!

I've had mine on the beach and made it work, but it is a white-knuckle ride. The load range E tires are just too stiff on soft ground. It's like a locomotive off the track! They really need to be lower pressure in the sand.



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Roger that. I hate driving my F-250 diesel on the beach.


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If Dodge had the allison transmission they would have the market cornered.
FWIW I just sold my 01 dodge/cummins and bought a 06 duramax. The Allison is superb and the Duramax is powerful, but doesnt have the low end torque of the Cummins.

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Bulletbutt, i have had good luck with Goodyear silent armour.. I have them on a 04 ford 250.. There real good in snow and mud..

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Originally Posted by noduck
Bulletbutt, i have had good luck with Goodyear silent armour.. I have them on a 04 ford 250.. There real good in snow and mud..


I just bought a used Ford F350 Crew Cab with all 6 new Goodyear Silent Armour tires. First look at those tires and I went oh no they are gonna be loud on the highway. Boy was I wrong. They are incredible tires! Great grip off road and as quiet as any truck tire I have ever owned.

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Originally Posted by noduck
Bulletbutt, i have had good luck with Goodyear silent armour.. I have them on a 04 ford 250.. There real good in snow and mud..


I've had two sets on my 04 Dmax. It's a good tire. Good handling, quiet on the highway, good plonking through the sage, and good in Utah winter snow and packed roads. Only gripe is they didn't last very long. First set was gone in 28K miles. Second set was the newer Pro series, they were replaced at about 32K miles. So I don't buy them anymore.

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I guess you guys are aware that Dodge has had a six speed auto available with the Cummins since 2007.5. People that have them like them, claim they prefer them to an Allison. I believe Ford's new transmission is a six speed as well.

Not downing the Allison, just informing. Altogether I would think the GM diesel pickups would be the best of the tree if you do much offroading, 1000 pounds lighter, IFS, and less low end torque to get you in trouble.

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They all have problems. The Cummins is hamstrung by the poorly designed "truck" built around it. The Dodge's firewall wraps around the Cummins, and comes too close to the #5 & 6 cylinders, restricting airflow around the back of the engine, causing theses 2 cylinders to overheat, leading to piston galling. Most of the Cummins in the late model Dodges melt one or both of these pistons when they fail.
Fords 6.0 Navistar VT365 engines suffered from being rushed into the market before they were ready. The fuel systems were especially inadequate, and the turbos are too complicated for their own good. The engines are also prone to overheating, and if you do overheat one, you're stuck buying new factory heads if you warp your originals, which you will. These are expensive engines to fix.
Duramax suffers from a lot of the same problems as the 6.0L Ford. Most of the dead ones We see die because of abuse, they are a powerful engine, and many people can't seem to keep from beating the snot out of them. This is another terribly expensive engine to fix, and once again, the heads aren't generally reusable.

I sell diesel engines, and diesel engine parts, 60 hours a week. Every friggin' week. My customers are some of the most noted diesel shops in the nation. My conclusion after 20 years of this crap? Give me a late '90s Ford chassis, with a mechanical 5.9 Cummins, and a manual transmission. I'd take a 7.3 if necessary, but the 5.9 is cheaper to maintain. And I detest electronic injectors!


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Wow! I didn't realize the Cummins was air cooled. All this time I thought that finned thing in the front that you put antifreeze & water into was for cooling.

Too many million mile Cummins powered Dodges on the road to lend much credence to your theory. Sorry, I can't see the logic behind your reasoning there. Diesel engines will usually melt pistons due to failed injectors. In line six cylinder engines, when overheated due to a cooling system failure, will normally sustain the most damage to the rearmost cylinders NOT due to airflow issues, but due to the fact that they are furtherest away from the waterpump, and when coolant is already superheated making it's way through the water jackets in the block, it doesn't do a whole lot of good by the time it arrives at #5 & #6 cylinders.

This is true of long in-line engines, gas or diesel.

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Originally Posted by badger
Wow! I didn't realize the Cummins was air cooled. All this time I thought that finned thing in the front that you put antifreeze & water into was for cooling.

Too many million mile Cummins powered Dodges on the road to lend much credence to your theory. Sorry, I can't see the logic behind your reasoning there. Diesel engines will usually melt pistons due to failed injectors. In line six cylinder engines, when overheated due to a cooling system failure, will normally sustain the most damage to the rearmost cylinders NOT due to airflow issues, but due to the fact that they are furtherest away from the waterpump, and when coolant is already superheated making it's way through the water jackets in the block, it doesn't do a whole lot of good by the time it arrives at #5 & #6 cylinders.

This is true of long in-line engines, gas or diesel.


Me too......I also thought these things were liquid cooled.

I've seen melted diesel pistons and it didn't happen from lack of air circulation.

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