Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles H4350 max load for Barnes TSX/TTSXs

Hi There,

I am wondering how high people are loading for a H4350 + 180 grain TSX/TTSX combo in a .300 WSM (i.e., Max load).

The newest Barnes Reloding Manual (#4)does not list this powder; the older Barnes Reloading Manual (#3) lists H4350, but this data is for the older Barnes X-bullets (max loads are generally lower compared to the newer manual for the same bullet wieght/powder combo Barnes bullets).

After a scare while trying to work up a load using RL17, I am little gun-shy using the commonly referred to pressure indicators to guide me.

Oops - almost forgot. I emailed Ty at Barnes, but have yet to recieve a response (he might be busy and circumstances require a quick reply).

thanks

I now quite a few people that used 64, I found 63 to be more my liking in the guns I worked with in terms of pressure.

R17 will work as well, what happened to you with R17?

I'd spect to get 50 fps more than H4350 with R17.

Dober

Do you have a chronograph?

"...what happened to you with RL17?"

I used Alliant sites data for 180 grainer (listed 66 grains as max for this bullet weight)and worked up a load using the OCW method (first three "workup loads" loads 59.4, 60.7, 62.0 grains...). Fired these first three without checking chrony but looked for the common pressure indicates and found none(e.g., heavy bolt lift, shiny mark on case, primer cratering, etc..

Then started to fire "round robin" test load. First round chroneed at 3083 fps at powder wieght of 63.4 grams - again no pressure indicators (this was already RL17 max velocity territory for this bullet wieght). Second, third, and fourth round - no pressure indicators. Unfortunatley my chrono was not working for the 2nd-4th rounds (cloudy skies gave way to a cloudy periods/noon time sun and I did not have my chrony's sunshades - speeds did not register). Got to the max load and chrony registered an unbelievable 3285 fps. Did not believe it until I tried ejecting the spend round - could not - Bolt was stuck - Trip to gunsmith ensued (did not want to fiddle around with my brand new Rem700). Needless to say, I was lucky to escape this RL17 exploration intact. Moral of the story - I am hesitant to trust pressure indicators again.

I have since learned that QL indicates that the max powder weight for RL17+Barnes 180 grainers is around 61 grains (i.e., way below the 66 for a 180 grain Sierra BTSP listed on the Alliant site). No wonder my "round robin" round was so fast.

Granted, while lot of what happened was due to my neglience/stupidity/carelessness (i.e., not checking velocitys of my intial "work up loads", continuing without chrony data), the fact remains that I did not encounter any of the primary pressure indicators (however, the case on the last round had an easily descernible "shiny spot" on the case head, but to late to be of any use to me).

However, back to my original queston, how "high" have people been able to load newer Barnes bullets (180 TSX/TTSX/MRX) using H4350 - the older Barnes 3 manual lists 65.0 grains as the max for the now obsolete original X-bullet.

I'd be more concerned with velocity than grains. You will learn much sticking close to your chronograph. A book is a educated guess only as many variables come into play such as brass, chamber, barrel, etc.

Ok - I will expand my request.

I want to know the
a) the maximum "safe" velocities that you have attained using 180 TSX/TTSXMRX and H4350
AND/OR
b) the maximum safe loads you have reached using this bullet/powder combo.

The max velocity/Load-data from Barnes #3 for 180 grainers almost certainly does not apply to the newer Barnes Bullets and as already mentioned, I am less confident in pressure indicators given my experience (or at least, my ability to read these indicators).

As an illustration:
RL19 in Barnes #3 with 180 grainers: Max load=67.5 g; Max Vel.=2948 fps;

RL19 in Barnes #4 with 180 grainers: Max Load=69.5 g; Max Vel.=3036 fps.

I understand that "one-size fits all" numbers are unrealistic; However, I just want to reduce the "measurement error" of any educated guesses that I make.

The books are only a guideline and your rifle might take an extra grain safely to reach 3000, more than my rifle...Same reason Barnes gives you the same data for TSX, TTSX, and MRX, just a guideline.

I'd work up to 3000fps and call it a day...

Blargons' right, you'll just have to work up with your rifle. The rifles I've worked with would go to 2950 but after that I felt as if I was pushing it too hard.

For me, 2900-2950 would be a very workable area and with dotz I can set them up to work with any speed so I've no need to try to get to this or that speed.

Dober

As to why you aren't seeing pressure signs in the WSM case...

If you look at a case dimension drawing, you'll notice that the WSM cases don't have much body taper. In my limited experiences with cases that have little body taper (various Ackley Improved), they DO NOT show the pressure signs that most of us are used to. Just a for instance, I often see people talking about getting 200-250 fps increase in an AI on the .308 case. Folks, you don't get that much additional case capacity by improving the .308 case. That extra 200 fps is due to excessive pressure, and excessive pressure ONLY. But, you say, "I'm not seeing any pressure signs!" That's right, you aren't. But I guarantee that if you ever run those loads through a pressure testing rig, they will be in the 70k psi range.

My point is this: You CAN NOT eyeball pressure signs in a modern minimal taper case, or an Improved case. At the minimum, you need a working chrono, and when the book says a cartridge tops out at 3000 fps with a 180 grain bullet, believe it!

/rant over, thank you, drive through...

I've long said that it's my opinon that the WSM case does a very good job of camoflaging pressure. I think it's so but most think I'm full of it...whats new...grin

Dober

Exactly Dober.
Loading up with 175/180's and R17/H4350 I'm happy right around 2950fps. That's where the rifles shoot best anyway so there is zero reason to push things. I'm actually glad they shoot better a little off max.

180's in my 300 WSM's ran 2,945 to 2,980 with H4350 (24" barrel). Depends on the tube (have owned and loaded for six 300 WSM's).

My current 300 WSM runs a standard cup and core 180 @ 2,970 with 63.5 H4350 and 3,035 with 64.0 RL17.

I quit Barnes Bullets and have no recent data, but generally I've found TSX/TTSX's require .5 gr's (give or take) less powder than my loads for standard cup and core bullets.

I have never tried Rl 17 with 180 gr bullets however I just worked up an accurate load with Rl 17 and the 200 gr partition. I am at 61.5 gr and getting 2777 fps and groups under an inch, no signs of pressure, can someone with a quickload check this load out for me.

Freddy, I've done preliminary tests with RL17 and 200's... 2,850 is easily doable and 2,900 is likely attainable in some tubes.

I got up to 62.5 gr and 2842 fps but the primers were starting to get real flat, case head expanded .001, when I see those signs I back off one grain and then work on accuracy which means working with the seating depth.