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Thought this might be interesting to a few of the guys on here, and give me some useful info at the same time.

Here's an English Walnut tree on my parents farm. Diameter above the root swell is about 3 1/2 feet, don't know the age of the tree but I expect it's pretty old.

As you can see, the tree is on the way out, with dead branches etc. Thought we might as well get it milled before it actually dies and the wood becomes worthless. I'm meeting with a local sawmiller sometime this week which is why I have the below photos, taken from 4 angles around the tree.

So for those who know timber (and there seems be quite of bit of expertise around here) - if this was your tree, how would you mill it for gunstocks? Where would you place the blanks? Would you include any of the below-ground timber in the blank? Could you cut for feather figure in that first main branch without sacrificing the layout of blanks in the main trunk?

All a learning experience for me.

Get the roots too.

I had a similar sized maple tree that I wanted to have cut down and milled for woodworking projects. I couldn't find a tree company or sawmill that would touch it because of a couple of old spikes sticking out of it. One guy used a metal detector and couldn't detect any other embedded bits of metal, but still wouldn't touch it. They are deathly afraid of personal and machinery injuries from blades hitting foreign objects. I ended up cutting it down myself and milled a few slabs out of the trunk with the chainsaw, but most of it ended up as fire wood. I note some iron sticking out of yours?

The best thing to do is to talk to a specia;ty company who cuts gun blanks - - - Wineland Walnut, Goby Walnut, etc. They may be able to help. The iron sticking out of the tree is a huge problem.

The only fix may be to get the tree dug and pulled out of the ground with a backhoe [a really big one] so the valuable root ball can be saved. Once down, a metal detector and large chainsaw can down siz the pieces a bit.

Once you have things to a hauling size, find someone with a water knife mill to cut the flitches. Limbs matbe with a chainsaw to get them small enough to evaluate and dry.

The figure is in the root ball, best to have the tree dug out by the root ball instead of cutting it off at the stump. Some places grow well figured wood, some don't. It all depends upon the climate, I don't have any idea how New Zealand rates. You might be wasting your time if you don't have the right climate. I know in my home state of Mississippi, I could grow walnut trees till the cows came home and probably never produce a real exhibition grade blank. I'd certainly have it quartersawn, in my opinion a gunstock is worthless unless quartersawn. Some like the looks of a slab sawn stock but I can't warm to them.

Having dealt with more than a few walnuts...

To help you decide how to cut it, start by cutting a core from the tree to see how much sapwood is there before the heartwood. Different cultivars in exactly the same conditions will maintain widely variable amounts of sapwood. Three feet of diameter guarantees there will be enough heart in the center to hide quite a few blanks. Even if you just trim some sapwood off the outside to see how deep the color is you will learn plenty.

There are a lot of good blanks in the tree regardless the "overall character" of the wood and the rootball is important as many have said.

The iron is an issue and I have some scars to explain why... It is why you will probably be forced to chainsaw it...

Do NOT attempt to use any limbs for lumber and especially not for blanks. It is 100% firewood due to juvenile and other reaction wood types.

If it has black marbling (quite possible because it looks like there is some insect damage and the lopped off branches allowed fungal access) boardsawn is going to show better. Curl is shown much better when quartersawn.

In the second photo the cut-off branch stub has a slight V in the bark immediately under the branch. That bark died as a result of the branch being cut off. There was some growth for awhile after the branch was removed and there is a ridge of figure directly behind that V extending deep into bole-branch junction. There may be progressively smaller ranks of Vs inside the first... May be a couple outside the line, too. A boardsawn series of 2-piece blanks right there will look pretty good, especially if cut long on the top end (about the center of the limb).

The other, more standard cut for limbs to achieve feather or crotch figure (same thing) is quarter-sawing starting with a cut straight through the center of the tree and the branch. So the centers of the them form a "Y" on the cut surfaces.

In the last picture, under the large limb there is obviously some curly stuff right there in the tightest turn, also, below and left of it there is what appears to be a high spot in the valley of buttressed wood and the main bole, with some curl clearly telegraphing through the bark.

Have to go pick up some bear hunters, but will add more later... Especially in regards to the roots.
art

This is great stuff guys, thanks. Keep it coming...

I've got plenty of questions, but I'll keep most of them until I've met with the sawmiller to get an idea of what he's willing to do.

It's certainly a pity about the iron, I hope it's not a deal-breaker. I believe New Zealand has a good rep regarding growing conditions for walnut timber, certainly I've seen that written before.

We have a 13-tonne digger available, so should be able to get at that root wood. The better I can plan how it should be cut up now, the less likely we'll stuff up once it's on the ground...

One might get the idea that Art knows a thing or two about wood and trees... and you would be right!

As Art correctly notes, the iron is a real concern so do be careful -- a friend that owns a lumber mill says that if you see any iron, there WILL be more that you cannot see!

Interesting thread -- I will look back to see the rest of Art's comments regarding the roots.

John

If you are near good brown trout it might be best if I inspected it in person!

Sawing is usually done as cutting-for-grade in non-commercial applications. Pick the best potential piece each time you cut, rather than slabbing the whole thing and hunting for blanks. Generally the best blanks will be found closer to the surface as figure builds atop figure. For example the inside curve at the roots often "wrinkle" and new wood laid down on old perpetuates it. This is of course fiddleback when sawn.

With absolutely no clue about the growing conditions the tree has been under and less about the soil and rocks it is hard to guess what you will find in the roots for shape. But there are a few things to count on... Walnuts are extremely difficult to get out of the ground without damage... They put down a taproot all the way to bedrock. The feeder roots coming laterally are the main interest (you can cut the taproot as it is exposed close under the laterals) but there will be rocks in there the tree grew around.

Actually it is not the roots themselves but the bottom of the bole that are best. Once the grain turns horizontal it can usually be forgotten. Furthermore, with limbs like this

Where the grain curves out into the roots is the tradional place to find the proper sweeping grip for the grip. Placed with luck the grain will not run at a strong angle to the comb at the heel of the butt... Makes the heel weak and potentially chippable...

It should be obvious if the grain is sweeping at the grip there has to be quite a bit of wood underground... The comb would typically be quite vertical in this layout. That also means rifle blanks need to be cut from about a foot below grade to about 2 1/2' above for general purposes. No sane sawyer would saw a root ball with anyhting other than a chainsaw. Or at least until it was opened and potential rocks found.

An interesting thing to consider about cutting logs into lumber, and looking at trees growing... There is a basic difference between hardwoods and softwoods (angiosperms and gymnosperms as I prefer to refer to them) when they are supporting branches. Walnuts and such grown more wood on the bottom side of limbs (compression wood) and the underside of the trunk when growing at an angle. Gymnosperms like pines support limbs with tension wood from the top side. Which is why angiosperms can spread limbs so much farther than gymnosperms. Next time you prune a fruit tree notice how the center of the limb is very nearly at the top of the limb.

The significance of this point when cutting blanks is the difficulty in cutting rifle blanks with crotch wood from limbs. The hollow immediately above most limbs also has sapwood between the surface and useable wood. The very best crotch-grain blanks are cut from either the splitting of main trunk stuff or when branches come out pointed very high, rather than horizontal stuff. The feather figure is the wood that fills in between the original branch and the bole. They usually have fillable defects. There appear to be plenty of opportunities to find good blanks in some of the bigger crotches farther up the tree.

Do not try to save wood from the center of the tree and avoid leaving the very center attached to blanks at all. The first several years of growth in trees is "juvenile" wood and it lacks most of the characteristics needed for stocks. It is very short-grained, less stable, more brittle, less fun to work because it is so brash, and can crack and perpetuate the cracks deeper into the good wood.
art

Pith is the enemy of most anything woodworking.

Someone gave me a bunch of nice looking, walnut bowl blanks one day, and I took them home, but upon further insprection they had gotten the centercut of the trunk and the pith ran right down the middle of the end grain. When dry, 3 of the 5 had split completely in half even with the endgrain sealed with wax.

Andrew
If you had green-turned them, drilled a tiny hole at center on each end, and dried them slowly in a paper bag you would probably have been fine... Wood changes size when it dries and it is rarely uniform...
art

I'm sure something could be worked out. I'm in the Central North Island, about 2 hours up from Taupo. If you're into trout fishing, I'm sure you've heard of Taupo. I do my fishing a bit closer to home though, on a small river called the Waipa. Can be quite challenging fishing, but it holds a fair stock of both rainbow and brown trout. Got a nice 3lb brown on a dry-fly cicada imitation a couple of months ago, don't think I've managed to get out again since. Duckshooting season and the Roar (Red Deer rut) seemed to get in the way . Anyway, back to the walnut tree:

I'm starting to get a better idea of where the blanks maybe should be placed. To take it back a couple of steps though, where do you actually start cutting with a tree like this? Assuming we've excavated the root ball with the tree standing, cut the major roots, pushed/felled the tree over, what do you do then? How do you subdivide the tree so that you can, for instance, cut the boardsawn blanks from behind that cut off branch, get quartersawn blanks along the line of that main limb to pick up the curl, and line the blanks up with the root curvature to get that grain flow through the pistol grip? It would seem to me that you'd have to do some general sectioning first, to allow you to get these blanks free as they were cut.

As I said before, I haven't yet talked to the sawmiller. This might become more apparent to me once I have. All I've done previously is hand-slabbed small trees with a chainsaw, which is in a whole different league to what we're talking about here.

While I think of it, here's another question. I've been told that it's very important to mill the tree before the sap-rise in spring. Do you have a comment on this?

Savage2005 - thanks for the extra warning about the pith, I'll watch out for it. Nice bowl you've got pictured there by the way. I do a bit of wood turning myself from time to time, but nothing major.

Where to start is always the tough part because it is really just a lot of guessing until the first few cuts open wrapper. The sawyer will likely have a good handle on doing it some particular way and most of them are engaged in turning trees into square edged things, not rounded stocks...

Limbing it to uncover the trunk will make a lot of things obvious...

As to sap... The extremely common wood used for all sorts of furniture here in the US right now, prima vera, is a great example of the sap problem. The trees are incredibly huge... so huge they time falling to avoid full moons... The sap actually has tidal effect! Falling it will thousands of extra pounds of water can damage the wood more.

Trees in the realm of your walnut are not there for concerns because they are both much smaller and far stronger, more elastic wood.

Some claim there is a difference in drying, but the edge there goes completely to added water... Wood will start having potential problems the minute the water starts leaving cut surfaces. Kiln drying is not really about getting water out faster, but rather about controling the water evaporation rate so the wood is not damaged in the process. Kiln-drying NEVER improves wood over proper air-drying. It only does it faster with "acceptable" levels of degrade.

Start with the easy, obvious pieces. The butt log should be at least 6' from cut to root bottom. After that the sawyers rig determines how long each log above should be.

Making a log cut just above the exposed iron is probably the safest way to dig it out. The iron in the tree is most likely above the hanging section... Metal detectors are a very good idea, but not infallible.

Gimme cuts:
From the fifth picture; Forks up in the tree (relatively vertical sections ONLY) should be split to produce two "Y" shaped pieces. That will expose potential crotch figure, which will be there, the question is how much... It also is a good place to look for quartersawn curl out away from the crotch. Marbling is generally limited to the lower portions, so any you see here is a great sign. Slabbing the halves from the exposed faces out is better than a quick and dirty "through and through" slabbing of the entire piece because it will do a far better job of following the pith. Grain run-out is not a good thing in blanks and making cuts from the outside of the log which are parallel to the pith is much more difficult...

Have to run, will try to add more later today...
art

Oh, if I did not live in AK I would probably be jealous!

I turned one green, and forgot to wear gloves. After I managed to wash the purple stripe off everything in the garage, and got most of it off of myself, I anchorsealed them all and wrapped them in newspaper on a wire shelf.

Yeah, green walnut is a mess and the juglone can be an irritant to many...

Back to the forks up high... Realize a wide spreading fork does not produce a long feather as the tree grows in at the crotch from both sides, the closer they are to each other the longer they produce the fused look at the junction...

Man that is some lousy description!!!!!!!

Anyway, a 20" trunk below the fork would yield a single 2.5-3" quartersawn slab on each side of center. The remaining slabs from each side would be usable only as more boardsawn pieces as the remaining 7" (at the heavy end) would include sapwood. Some tight crotches like the one shown here will make a number of good slabs, but they start being very different from one side to the other, both from the rapidly diminishing crotch figure and the riftsawn curvature of the annual rings. It takes real size to provide much in the way of options after the first couple cuts...

Immediately paint all highly figured surfaces! I like to use linseed oil mixed into melted beeswax, 3 or 4 to one (75-80% BLO : 20-25% wax)... Anchorseal is very good, though quite a bit more expensive. PVA glue thinned way down is also very good. PVA can be purchased in powder form and mixed as needed.

Lacking those, old latex paint is far better than nothing. The ends need painting when you get a chance, but they can wait a day or so unless it is windy and dry. Tarp them up if is.

Stickering the blanks and keeping them covered will slow the drying process enough to ensure minimal damage and checking. Many do not realize wet air is lighter than dry air and a tarp traps moisture under it which slows things just about the way you want them...
art

A lot of knowledgeable people here. Around my area you won't get a sawmill to cut a huge farm tree with out putting damage money up front. Farmers used to stick anything that fell off the horse or tractor in the nearest tree. We also have something we call "powder beetles" or "Glass worms". I don't know the proper name for them, but if they get in the wood it is worthless. Good luck with it.

Paul, I also cut a tree from my fathers back yard. After hours of headscrathing I made a decision and cut the main section into a billet about 8 in either side of the heart ant set it all under the house on fillets to dry. After about 11 years I started to cut for blanks and ended up with just one usable piece as there were un-fillable bark pockets and the worst was that some time in the past when the tree was a pup kids must have built tree huts or smmething in it as we constantly hit nails right dowm into the base of the tree. Hope high but be prepared for anything.

Von Gruff.

Well, I've finally tracked down the sawmiller, and I'm meeting him tomorrow to go over the possibilities. So by tomorrow afternoon, I should know a lot more about what's going to be feasible.

Of all the bad ideas, leaving the heart intact is about the worst. It dries very differently from the rest of the wood and will create lots of stresses in bad places... Get rid of it first!

Well, I met the sawmiller and it all looks fairly encouraging so far. He's got a really interesting place, logs and stacked timber all over the place. There's a couple of black walnut logs there which I think will be beautiful once opened, from just looking at the grain where the logs were cut below the buttress.

Anyway, he's happy to mill the tree even with the visible iron. The tree will be milled at his yard rather than on site, and he runs over all trees with the metal detector as a matter of course. We'll still be proceeding with caution though.

The plan is for us to excavate the main roots with the digger prior to him coming over. We could progress with cutting off some of the roots, but I'm inclined to let him use his own chainsaw for that. Anyway, limb as much of the tree as is necessary to prevent damage as it falls, and then work to cut off the roots and fell/push the tree over. Once it's on the ground, section it into manageable lengths and take it back to the yard. Current plan is to take a length of first main limb as well as the trunk - I did note what you said earlier Art, but I wouldn't mind having some extra timber for my own woodworking. Doesn't have to be high grade.

The trunk buttress is likely going to be too large for the mill as is, so will probably use the chainsaw mill to take a large slab off top and bottom, full length up the trunk. This can then be quartersawn separately. The main trunk should then be manageable on the mill, so we'll see how it goes from there. Crotch forks to be split as advised. Hopefully we'll end up with a both a few nice stocks and a pile of timber for other uses.

He's estimated about NZ$700 - $800 for the whole job, on the basis that I end up with all the timber. If he wanted to purchase some of timber after it was sawn, I'd be willing to negotiate then.

So that's the plan at the moment, just have to organise the timing to go in there and take the tree out.

A few more questions for you Art (or anyone else), before I sign off for the night:

> Is it a good idea to remove all bark, and/or sapwood, from the sawn timber before drying, or doesn't it matter?

> If sealing figured grain with thinned PVA, I presume the PVA doesn't penetrate far enough to cause problems when it comes to working the wood?

> I note the suggestion that the wood be dried under a cover to start with. I've heard of using a permeable cover - eg hessian, but I would have thought that a tarp was a bit extreme? Can you potentially slow the drying down too much?

Thanks guys, you continue to be a great help

Sounds like you have a good plan. That Art is a veritable encyclopedia of wood knowledge. Should he ever decide to sit down long enough to write a book I would buy one!

I have cut up several trees like yours with a chainsaw mill. The iron is a problem but not like what happens with a band or circle saw mill. You sharpen the chain and go on. A pressure washer works great for cleaning the root ball.

You might be surprised at what you find inside that old tree. I sawed thru a minnie ball in the 1st one I cut up.

Good luck with the tree. I would love to see some pics of the sawing operation/blanks

Here are some pics of the mill as I was sawing up a walnut crotch a couple years ago.

I have some plans for a solar kiln from the PA Extention service I think.

You wrap the wood in heavy black plastic and make rain proof vents. Really speeds up the drying.

I'll go look for them now.............

Thats some good looking walnut you have there Rick. I will certainly post pictures of the process and results.

It's looking like we won't get in there until late July, so watch this space.

A solar kiln sounds interesting. I wouldn't be game to try it on something like this walnut tree, but I'd be willing to try it on something smaller. I've experimented with a few different drying techniques for small projects - I've recently had some success with boiling green-turned bowls before hanging them to dry in paper bags. Seems like it really speeds up the drying process. But I don't think I'd try it on a stock blank...

Still waiting. btt

There is steel in the trunk. I see it in a couple pictures.

Any luck finding a saw mill that will cut it?

Sorry I missed this back then, but I see it was just as we were leaving for SE to bring a small boat across the Gulf of AK for friends. Then we hit windy weather and hid in Yakutat for two weeks... Then I had the 5th Annual Once in a Lifetime Fishing Trip with Doug from cameralnad... Final home this morning after waiting three days for the fog to clear on Kodiak.

Getting the bark off is a good idea because it will slow drying... Sapwood is not too important unless you have some bad bugs that really like walnut sapwood.

Thinned PVA will plug some/most endgrain holes allowing the wood to dry mostly through the lateral water migration... It will almost certainly be far short of soaking into the wood that will be used.

Yes, slowing the drying too much allows molds and fungi to stain the wood (sticker stain) so there is a need for a happy medium. The greatest danger for that is in the earliest going. As the wood gets drier a tight sealing allows the water to equalize through the wood. In kilns they dry harshly, then steam to rewet the surface, and repeat, repeatedly. they want the wood as dry as possible, as fast as possible with the "minimum acceptable degrade". For blanks kiln-drying is of no use, IMO&E.

A tarp over the top of the stack will allow some air movement which will gradually allow the wood to dry as uniformlly as possible. The tarp will trap the wetter, lighter (not a typo) air up in the top and diffusion and circulation will maintain a reasonable relative humidity. If drying conditions are severe the tarp can be closed up for a couple days at a time every once in a while. If the wood feels dry it is never a bad idea.

Weighing a sample board or two in the stack and monitoring them should tell how fast you are dumping the water.
art

I hadn't forgotten guys - the tree hit the ground 2 days ago. Stand by for pictures (and undoubtedly more questions ).

sitka deer,
Just left Anchorage after 10 days. Had a great time. Visited with several friends from 30yrs ago. I sure miss it up there, but you know if your friends and family are in the Texas area, we won't move back. That placed has changed so much that it is scarey.
Butch

Wish you had called, I would have bought you a beer or coffee or something. I only got home yesterday morning myself though.

There have been some huge changes in the last thirty years, for certain! Have quite a bit more years than that here and lots of my favorite places now have houses...

Well, the tree has been felled and the logs are sitting in the sawmillers yard. All in all, the felling process went fairly well - I'll let the photos tell it.

Tree prior to felling (scroll back to first page of this thread for more pics):


Limbing the trunk. The facing branch stub shows substantial doze, which made me nervous:


The first sign of colour. A fair chunk of heartwood for such a small branch:


Looking hopeful:


Digging around the root ball. Glad we have a sizeable digger - it was a solid mass of roots right around the tree:


A little bit of a push, and down she goes:

Note the lack of taproot.

More pics to follow.

Plunge cutting the roots, to get rid of some weight:


Then use the digger to break off the cut sections:


The main log, lifted out of the hole and cut in half:


Loading up the butt log:


And ready to go:


Other logs waiting for pickup. The one in the foreground should contain a few gunstocks, the others are relatively minor logs (branchwood) for other uses:


And the post-felling cleanup:
[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/pjb20/P7310079.jpg[/img]

After the main log left for the yard, I took some pictures of wood figure. These are all relatively small sections - branches and the like. We haven't yet opened up the main logs, wonder how they'll look?







And the main log again, after 3hrs with a water blaster, spade and pick-axe. There were substantial areas of rot in the roots, so perhaps we got to it just in time.



The solid wood doesn't extend down nearly as far as I thought - in hindsight we would have lost very little by simply cutting at ground level. But we weren't to know that.

That's enough for now, I'll try and post some further details later tonight.

Very nice! The black lines just may signal a magnificent bit of marbling hiding somewhere in that tree. I am anxious to see what you find.

Me too! We're scheduled to mill in about two weeks time. I'll be trying to keep your advice in mind during the milling.

I think we'll use Mobilcer M wax as an end-grain sealer - it seems be locally available and relatively cheap. We've been advised that spraying with "Ripcord" is the way to go to prevent borer attack. We're also clearing out a shed to stack the timber in during drying. It's concrete floored, open at the front and with gaps under the eaves at both sides. I'm hoping that it will give a suitable, limited amount of air movement.

I was wondering about using a light cotton sheet over the stack in order to keep the humidity even. I'm a little worried that the stacks would dry unevenly otherwise, in a shed with one open end. Maybe a tarp would work just as well though.

Thanks for posting pics. It looks like you have some beautiful wood in that tree.

Keep the pics coming. We're enjoying it on this end.

Roger

This is a bit off subject, but it is kind of funny, and also kid of scary.

A high wind blew down a large oak, larger than this walnut. It had huge limbs on it, and some of them, unknown to me, were hollow.

I cut one of the large limbs off, perhaps 2 feet from the trunk.

When I looked at the end still attached to the tree, there was a huge snake coiled up in the hollow. The chain saw bar and chain missed it by about 1/2 inch.

It was a non-venomous snake, but still, seeing it that close and unexpectatly was exciting, to say the least.

I shudder to think what it would have been like if the snake was unable to move out of the way of the chain.

As mentioned, this is off topic, and the moderator is free to delete it if it is out of place. Seeing those large limbs on the walnut tree reminded me of it.

Paul
The covering, especially in the semi-early bit of drying should be waterproof, or nearly so.

The idea is that wood does not start to shrink until reaching "fiber saturation point" which is roughly 25% moisture content. (weight of oven dry wood compared to lost weight during oven drying ie. 125grams wet and 100grams after oven drying = 25% moisture content) Walnuts here run about 90% when fresh and green. Of course it will not dry uniformly during the earliest going, but shortly thereafter it needs to be encouraged to start... So there is significant time after the lumber is cut where it will be too wet to start moving. Unless it is hot, dry, or windy... or any combination of the above.

In commercial yards of size the wood is stickered and stacked in an area with reduced wind, no direct sun, and high relative humidity because of the volume of wood stacked there.

Your shed will work great at keeping down air movement and sun... But how dry will the air be and how hot is it? This is the part you have to monitor and judge most carefully. After the wood gets down to FSP it will start moving, and the surface will be too dry for sticker stain fungi to be a problem...

As long as we keep bringing that up, let me add a couple nots directly about it... The fungus acts like any other, just spreads enzymes that break down various mostly starchy components in the wood. The sugars created "burn" readily for the fungi which uses them to grow more and longer thin hairs which are the "body" of a fungus. But with sticker stain the wood has been opened and dries before the fungus can cover the entire piece of wood. That leaves colored bars across the faces of the wood which may be a bit wider than the stickers.

Keep your stickers narrow and uniform. You will need a lot of them and they are worth what it takes to do it right... Make them dry to start and use woods like pine, poplar, aspen, or other easy-to-dry species. Plywood strips are not good stickers... Neither are offcut strips from the wood you are cutting.

Don't forget that marbling looks best in flat (board) sawn mode...
art

Art,
if I understand correctly, you're saying that during the earliest stages of drying (until FSP is reached) the covering should be absent or minimal. That during this stage, it is more important to dry the wood surface (to prevent sticker stain fungus) than to dry evenly - because the wood is still to wet to move.

Once FSP is reached, then it is more important to promote even drying than fast drying - hence the use of a tarpaulin cover.

Do I have this right? If so, the trick would seem to be judging the point at which you apply the waterproof cover.

As background info, we're just coming out of winter and into spring over here. So it'll be relatively humid and not too hot for the next few months - max of perhaps 20 degrees C.

Yes, if the marbling really is present boardsawn might be the way to go. However, this would seem to contradict having the buttress grain sweeping through the pistol grip - something that I imagine is only possible in a quartersawn blank? In a flatsawn blank from the butt log, the sweeping grain would exit in the vicinity of the cheekpiece instead, wouldn't it?

So many factors to consider.... . I can see why this takes experience.

As far as stickers go, I was intending to use tanalised pine of approx 1" x 1".

I'll probably be away from the forum for the next week. But I will certainly be checking this thread again prior to milling.

Thanks everyone, for all your help so far.

I have no direct experience with tanalised wood as it is not common here. Our pressure-treated woods use quite different chemicals and some can be problematic as stickers, so I had to do a little research... It looks like tanalised pine would be a great choice.

You are correct on the grain flow issues at the buttress level. That marbling however may go farther up the tree, may be along the side of a buttress, or just may be incredible enough to just cut it and forget about the perfect grain flow and cut a two-piece blank for use with a stock bolt model. There are lots of options in a tree like that.

And, yes you figured out what I was trying to say about FSP despite my best efforts at confusing the hell out of you! The weather description is ideal for drying quality stuff through the most difficult stages.

The trick to deciding when to tarp is fairly easy... Cover it and watch for codensation... Remove it if there is water running. This will also show you how important it is to control water loss. The surface will have been dry enough for you to think it was pretty dry on surface, yet the wet interior rewetted the outside, obviously.

The bottom course of stickers should be exactly level and should be shimmed as required to make them so. I prefer to use much thicker stickers on bottom with a strip of plastic sheet or tar paper between the wood and the concrete. It will not make a difference until later in the drying, but it is easier to put it down first.
art

Here is a video I made of me helping push on a chain saw saw mill cutting a slab off a Walnut tree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn3RtNFHXwA

Well, we've milled most of the main trunk. Hopefully we'll finish off the rest of the logs this weekend.

As before, I'll let the pictures tell the story and then answer any questions afterwards.

Good news 1234567 - no snakes of any kind showed up One of the advantages of living in NZ.

Here's the main log, with the sawmiller taking the first few cuts to square up the top. The roots have been cut back to solid wood. The cuts you can see on top were to excavate metal - we found quite a few nails and pieces of wire throughout the log. Luckily we found them all with the metal detector and not the mill blade, but it took a lot of time. The mill is a Peterson.


Another shot of the same:


Some of the first pieces to come off. These aren't stock blanks, but we had to sacrifice some wood to get into the tree. These pieces won't be wasted, regardless.


Once the top was square, we shifted to a chainsaw slabber. The log was too wide to fit into his bandsaw mill, so we used the slabber to break it down. First cut:


And the resultant surface of the log:


Second cut:


More photo's to come.

The first chainsaw-cut slab is about 3.5" thick - perhaps generous for a stock blank but it gives us a bit of room to correct grain alignment mistakes. The second (and third) slabs are much thicker, and will be broken down separately on the bandsaw mill. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Back to the chainsaw slabber, this is the log surface after the heavy slab shown in the previous photo was removed. We waterblasted the surface to expose the grain - hence the shine. Note that we have particularly dark mineral streaking on the extreme outside of the heart, on one side of the tree only. This band is only approx 2.5" wide - we tried to capture this is some flat sawn blanks but the width of the band didn't make it easy:






Next slab coming off:


And the remnants of the log. It might make a pretty counter-top, but unfortunately it's full of metal. We haven't done anything with this bit yet:


With the slabs removed, another scan with the metal detector revealed more nails and wire. Here's the miller excavating one of them.


I've skipped a few photos out of the sequence. The next one shows half of one of the chainsawn slabs on the bandsaw mill. This is a quartersawn cut:
[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/pjb20/P8210097.jpg[/img]

Photos of a couple more pieces off the bandsaw mill, both quartersawn approx 3.5" thick:




This slab we're cutting flatsawn, trying to catch the particularly dark mineral streaks:


With some success. We just caught the edge of the sapwood, it doesn't extend far into the slab:


And after a day of stacking, re-sealing (we sealed most of it as it came off the mill), and spraying with pesticide, this is what it looks like:


The drying shed. I put the plywood in front because there was quite a breeze blowing through, and I didn't want it to blow through the wood directly. The photo doesn't show it, but the shed is open under both eaves.


So that's it so far. This is about 80% of the main trunk, with the rest of the wood to come. Almost all cut to about 3.5" thick, and left in big slabs. I figure that gives more flexibility to lay out actual stock blanks when it's dry. The majority is quartersawn (just the way it worked out as we decided where best to cut), but there's a few flat sawn pieces as well.

Paul

I see potential between those stickers!

great photos. thanks for taking us along. so did you get any usable blanks out of the crotches yet?

Just as an aside, even if some won't make gun stocks, there is another major market in traditional bow makers that would LOVE to get a hold of some of your smaller pieces. Custom knife makers too.

Dang Paul, that tree is those cows only shade tree! I am sure that PETA is going to be all over you on this one!

PaulNZ,

Very interesting thread!

Thank you very much for starting it, and for posting the followup pictures.

I am glad that our resident wood expert Sitka Deer thinks your wood has promise too!

Please post more on this same thread later!

John (in northern Sweden, a LONG way north from where walnuts can grow!)

Glad everyone's enjoying it - I am. There's something very satisfying about scraping off the sawdust after the cut to reveal the grain. And wondering what the next cut will reveal.

We haven't cut into the upper crotches yet, I'm hoping to do that this weekend. It's going to be an interesting log to try and position on the sawmill - there's more than one potentially good fork and I don't think we can easily cut for both of them.

I'll post more photos once we finish the milling. Hopefully there'll be some more nice pieces to show off.

I'll take my chances with PETA . For the record though, we've planted a lot more shade trees than we've cut down!

"there's more than one potentially good fork and I don't think we can easily cut for both of them."

Cut for size first, narrowest angle next... That gives you the greatest chance for lonnnngggg feathers...

We managed to fit in the second days milling this weekend, so I've got another batch of photos to post. I'll try to put them up in the next day or so.

Art, to go back to one of your earlier comments, you stated that "Plywood strips are not good stickers." This question came up yesterday, and I was wondering why this was. Bearing in mind that our plywood is likely to be Radiata Pine, which may be different from US plywood?

Even with radiata pine, which we see a surprising amount of these days, plywood makes a bad sticker. But it is because of the glue, not the veneers. The glue makes a waterproof layer in the sticker and slows water migration right close to the sticker.

The result is too often "sticker stain", a fungal growth that stains the wood quite deeply in regular intervals across the stack.

Paul, this a thoroughly enjoyable thread.....keep it up please.

The next instalment:

On Saturday we milled the smaller logs/branches, and also the headlog. Smaller logs first:



This one was obviously quite bent, and was cut to produce what the sawmiller called "oyster figure". We weren't cutting for gunstocks out of any of these branches - instead getting a variety of 'general purpose' timber.





More of the small logs:





We also had one of the lower-log sections from the last week still to mill. This is one of the resultant slabs:



And a section of the upper main trunk, also left over from last week:

[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/pjb20/P8290150.jpg[/img]

Excellent photos -- I can just smell the walnut!

A very interesting thread too...

John

Onto the headlog. I know this is what some of you have been waiting to see.



After a bit of trimming, we slabbed this with a large electric chainsaw mill. We sacrificed the fork visible in the front of the above photo in favour of the larger fork lower down the trunk. The forks were almost at 90 degrees to one another, so we couldn't cut for both.

Just a note about the pictures - the chainsaw mill didn't leave as good a surface finish as the bandsaw mill, and I didn't wet the slabs before taking these photos. So I think these understate the figure to a degree:





But I think we hit the feather pretty well. Here are some more photos, taken after the slabs were sprayed against borer. The colour appears patchy only because the surface dried unevenly during the trip home.

We ended up with 2 slabs with really good feather on both sides. I think when planed, the feather will be visible as a wider band than it appears in these photos.







The wood shed is filling up now...

[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/pjb20/P8290165.jpg[/img]

Just a couple of timber odds and ends to come. Smaller pieces, but they'll still be worth the effort.

Interesting pictures. It will be interesting to see them as individual blanks. I have a hard time envisioning stocks that will come from these where the grain is flowing correctly, and there are no piths, knots or bark inclusions. I think that is from the lack of scale when viewing these.

Looks like a lot of work, but pretty interesting work.

Brent

Paul
You need to slap some of that drippy white sealer on the feather faces ASAP! They will not be as fun to look at and monitor, but the checks are hard to control on feather because so much is end grain.

There are lots of outstanding blanks! The photo of the upper main section has a spot I particularly like... On the left side under the branch. There will be perfect grain running down into the grip and a bunch of blister figure if cut right. There is also a bit of color. It looks very good!
art

Funny that you should say that Brent. My father and I, while stacking, spent a lot of time saying "that'll be my stock there". And then when we put down the next slab "no, that one is going be my stock, right there". It's a lot easier to picture them when you have an idea of scale, as you say.

I may be able to post some photo's with some kind of reference, such as a stock template from cardboard. But we don't plan to dismantle the stacks for a few months yet - until we get closer to FSP and re-sticker the stacks more thoroughly. The sticker spacing is very generous at the moment.

Art - noting your earlier post in this thread the feather faces were in fact sealed at the time of stacking. Admittedly, I put on a lighter coat than I was using on the slab ends, but I hope it will be sufficient. Obviously the photos were taken before this was applied.

I'm glad you approve of the wood, I think we got quite lucky with what turned out to be in the tree. The blister figure you mention, could you elaborate on that a little? I don't think it's a term I've heard before.

Paul

Angiosperms (broadleaves mostly) have a different idea about supporting branches. They build wood under the limb to prop it up. Gymnosperms (pines, etc for lack of a better term) support branches from above generally and build strength through tension wood.

Each has its advantages but obviously you see few really long limbs on pines... And nothing spreads like a mango tree...

Anyway, the wood layers directly under a limb will usually show a series of oblong wrinkles arranged in a Vee pattern from the sides of the limb tapering down the trunk. Enough of them and you have a pretty neat pattern and they usually build rows of these to the inside. When the tops are sliced off them they produce a series much like a bunch of small oyster patterns.

The grain changes are what create chatoyancy, or cats-eye effect. For some reason Browning seems to really like this particular pattern for Gran Lightnin Citoris. I have two with exactly the same pattern and have seen many more.

I agree you got quite lucky though a fully curly tree would have made you considerably luckier!

Stacking the wood even higher would be better and would give you back some shed space. The extra weight will help control the warping.
art

Please post a few photos in this thread when you eventually cut them to blanks. I would like to see how they turn out. You have a lot of figure and a lot of contrast so there is a lot of potential for sure. I have some walnut (black) on my property, but nothing that will make a figured stock unfortunately. It has great red colors but not much figure and only moderate contrasts in the tress I have cut so far.

Brent

Remind me again in 5 or so years, and I'll be happy to oblige

Good luck with your black walnuts. It sounds like nice timber.

Yup, I know it will be along time, but I am a patient person.

My walnut will never be the equal of what you have there. But I still like it.

His tree grew in the open. It had full light and the auxins (growth hormones) were inhibited by that light. It led to a shorter tree with lots of limbs.

Undoubtedly your walnuts are growing in a woodlot and the shelter allows them to grow straight, tall, and limbless for a good long first log. That long straight first log will never produce good stock wood. It will produce a great veneer log though...

Paul, you may wish to consider a dinning room table or kitchen bench/meat block with some of the non stockwood.

You're probably all getting sick of looking at pictures of walnut wood by now , but this will be the last batch for a while.

The last few pieces of the tree were milled 2 weeks ago. I wasn't able to be there myself, but had a few photos sent through. It looks like we got some more straight timber out of the upper log, a smaller feather from the section we cut off the main headlog and some very interesting grain from a lump of rootwood. The latter is the lump of buttress that was cut off the main log while squaring up the top (see earlier photos). I'm told that it's big enough for two-piece stocks, but I haven't seen it in person.

Here we go:









It's interesting, now that I understand the milling process a bit better, to go back to my rifles/shotguns and work out where the stock figure came from. Here's the buttstock of my shotgun, with what appears to be feather figure.



And yes, the length of pull is a bit longer than factory.

So that's it for all the wood. The shed is really full now...

The only thing that's concerning me a bit is how slow the initial drying is. I'd like to get the cut surfaces to dry off a bit quicker, but the last few weeks have been very wet and very high humidity. We're keeping an eye on the timber, but I'll feel better when the weather is a bit drier.

I've also dried out a test block in the oven (heartwood from the headlog), and the bone-dry density is 683kg/m3 or 42.6lb/ft3. That means that 49% of all those heavy slabs we carried into the shed was water (or 96% of the dry weight was water, if you prefer to look at it that way).

The final word in this should really go to the sawmiller. He was good to work with and did an excellent job. I think he's getting keen on turning some of other walnut logs he has on the yard into stock blanks too - as well as some of the dry walnut he already has.

If anyones interested, his name is Mike Esson and his website (well worth a look around) is Rarefind Timbers NZ Ltd. If anyone wants further contact details, shoot me a PM.

Cheers, Paul

Thank you very much for posting, Paul.

It was an extremely enjoyable, and instructive, thread.

BBerg.

It's been a little over 3 years since I last posted to this thread, and nothing much has happened in the meantime except to keep half an eye on the walnut as it dried and do an annual spray for borer.

But I'm back on the farm for the Christmas holidays, so Dad and I broke down one of the slabs (similar to the one in the last picture in the above post dated 08/30/10 08:25 PM) and ran it through the planer along with a couple of other smaller odds and ends:


Block #1


Block #1 with possible layout


Block #2. I think the 'muddy' appearance is just because this didn't get planed to the same extent as some of the other blocks


Block #2 with possible layout.


Block #3


Block #3 with unconventional layout. I'm aware it's more usual to have the grain angle down through the pistol grip, but that puts the end of the pistol grip into sapwood (see photo below)

[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/pjb20/Blank4-4_zps580b143d.jpg[/img]
Block #3

[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/pjb20/Blank5-1_zpseca8f3aa.jpg[/img]
Block #4. This is interesting. It's a flat-sawn piece, and one I wouldn't think would lend itself to a hard-kicking rifle. But the pattern is interesting...

[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/pjb20/Blank5-2_zps636a3ee4.jpg[/img]
Block #4

The template is a rough outline of the Anschutz Monte Carlo stock. This will probably be the first stock to try my hand at - my 1717 could do with an upgrade. Feel free to make comment on the various layouts.

But for now, the cut ends have been re-sealed and the blocks returned to the wood-shed for another few years of seasoning. But things are looking good.

Several things... One could get the idea you are a bit larger than average, based on LOP in the posted photo... I do not think you would like the very closed grip shape on your pattern.

I know I would not be able to use it that way... and I am a bit larger than average.

Open the grip up and for the same length it will be much closer to the butt stock bottom line... and it will help work around sapwood.

One key layout item you seem to have missed is the importance of rising grain in the fore end.

Your unconventional #3 layout is the best of the batch. And not unconventional, IMO.

#4 is the worst, IMO.

Actually, I admit my biggest issue is with the basic template...

Oh, gorgeous wood!

Hi Art, thanks for your input. I'm 5'-11" and 160lbs - not all that large. The template I used probably does give that impression, but that's because when I roughly traced around the stock onto the lino, the outline ended up rather larger than the stock itself in some areas (by half the diameter of the marker pen). Knowing that I wasn't actually going to be cutting out shapes, I didn't take as much care with the template as I could of.

Here's the stock itself, and another shot with a 12" ruler for scale. Not nearly as thick in the pistol grip as I made it look. Even then, it's not really the style I prefer on a general hunting rifle - I like straight combs, more open pistol grips and rounded fore-ends of the American Classic style. But for this particular rifle, the stock fits me very well. One of the issues I have with the Anschutz classic stock is actually that the more open pistol grip makes it difficult to reach the trigger.





Also, for the first stock to try my hand at I thought it would be easier to do a direct copy of a stock I already had. In that way I can easily check dimensions and profiles as the stock is shaped. I'm tempted to eliminate the schnabel tip on the fore-end though.

Can you tell me why rising grain in the fore-end is important? I've read it before, but can't say that I understood the reason. I thought having the grain flow down through the pistol grip into the butt was a key point, which often seems contrary to rising grain in the fore-end.

If you thought that the 2nd #3 layout was the best (interested in your reasoning), then the template on blank #2 could also be inverted quite easily. What do you think?

Paul,
Thank you for taking the time to follow up on this post, I have really enjoyed it!

Beautiful wood, and the best part is that it came from your farm. Congratulations.

Merry Christmas,
405wcf

Thanks for the kind words. I probably get a lot more out of this forum than I contribute (I read more than I post), so it's nice to share something interesting when I get the chance.

Hopefully in another few years I'll be able to complete the post with pictures of a completed stock!

Paul
Afraid I may get long-winded in this post... You've been warned!

Rather than trying to copy another stock with a stylus of some kind realize that stock shaping is fairly simple... And can be drawn out on each stock based on the measurements you want in the stock.

The top line of the stock is the baseline I use each time. Bury the barreled action halfway and the trigger determines the depth at the action.

The bolt needs to clear the nose of the comb, barely.

The LOP is measured from the trigger straight back, parallel to the bore axis.

A straight line from the comb nose to the cheek weld point on the stock you wish to duplicate carried through to the butt gives you the heel measurements you need.

The butt plate/pad size determines the starting point of the bottom stock line. Carry it to a point somewhere between the trigger as it leaves the stock to the middle of the trigger, based on what you like (very unimportant line compared to all the rest, aside from looks).

Grip shape is easy then as it gets laid over the other lines.

Decide whether to continue the bottom line of the action straight ahead, or take a turn in front of the action and run that line straight.

Your stock is now outlined in very classic fashion.

Rather than confusing things I will end this here and go back and answer the other questions in a separate post.

Rising grain in the fore end is important because of the way wood responds to changes in relative humidity. Because the wood around the action is supporting the fore end wood any "bending moment" applied close to the action has more effect than the same pressure applied farther away.

The reciprocal function as force is reduced is equally reduced the farther way from the action it is applied.

I have had a couple sips so I may have made this incredibly muddy... But it looks good from here!

In simpler terms, with rising grain the bending forces are placed farther down the barrel and cause fewer problems...

Paul
The third blank is the easiest to layout because you almost cannot make a mistake!

I would raise the butt a bit in your unconventional layout to force the rising grain in the fore end.

The #3 conventional layout needs a slight raise at the rear but that puts more grip into sap and takes a little away from the wild wood in the toe... Not bad, but just almost there.

I would never hesitate to use #4 for a hard kicker based on the photos. Specific gravity would mean FAR more to me. Board sawn is not a major issue with good wood.

You should figure out which direction the grain actually runs before starting to cut... It might be quite straight or quite crooked.

#1 might be interesting with the template flipped over.

#2 because of the hard bend screams two-piece! I can layout a couple different 2-piecers and really like them... I would hesitate to make this a one-piece stock.

Long winded is fine - better too much information than too little!

Re. your first post - I followed about 90% of that, and I'll have to try sketching that layout on a piece of cardboard or similar. One question though - what do you define as the single cheek weld point within the area that your cheek contacts the stock?

Re. your second post - you lost me on some of the detail. If your bending moment (rather than force) is occurring at different distances from the action, then you are proposing that the centre of rotation (around which the wood is warping) is in a different position dependent on whether the grain is tending up or down?

Looking around, I found written that downward sloping grain will result in the forend pulling away from the barrel over time. It makes sense to me that with grain dead straight through the forend, dry conditions encouraging the wood to shrink would result in the forend curving down - due to there being less wood in the top of the forend (the walls of the barrel channel) vs. the bottom of the forend (underneath the barrel). Upward sloping grain would tend to counteract this tendency , while downward sloping grain would exacerbate it. I don't know if this is correct, but it makes an approximate kind of sense in my head.

Putting aside the reasons, if I accept that upward grain in the forend = good, how effective would it be to counteract imperfect, downwards grain in the forend by stiffening the forend with carbon fibre rods and epoxy? I could mill a sizeable channel while having the stock set up for rough inletting, giving room for substantial reinforcement. Just trying to give myself options.

Re. your third post:

#1 loses a lot of figure from the butt if flipped - hence my question about carbon fibre.

#2 - definitely see what you are saying about 2-piece stocks. However, if the butt is raised to put rising grain into the forend, it also looks like it could be good. The hard bend is actually much less pronounced on the other side of the block. So it might be made to work either way. I think there will be no shortage of 2-piece stocks in this tree.

#3 - agree on both layouts. I can see the practicality in having the grain flow upwards in the butt, but it still looks slightly unusual to me compared to flowing down. The look might grow on me.

#4 - I planed and had a look at the top of the block after your post. Not good IMO - the grain is angled about 30 degrees rather than running down the length. I actually think this is one of the blocks shown in the 3rd photo of my 08/23/10 12:47 PM post, where we had to cut the buttress off just to get into the log proper. All a learning experience, anyway.

In any case, I think the wood needs at least a couple more years before seriously considering stocks. And in that time, no doubt we'll drag out another block or two, plane them, and go through this exercise again before selecting a couple to actually start shaping.

Paul,
If you have a chance, pick up a couple books on stock making to help you see the layout in pictures and explanations. It is hard to describe some of the processes and decisions Art is describing without a reference of some sort. Even with the books, you will need to make some decisions for youself before cutting into the wood- dimensions at heel and toe, rollover or other cheekpiece, length of grip, cast off or cast on, etc...

The best books I've found for this are "Professional Stockmaking" by David Westbrook and "Restocking a Rifle" by Alvin Linden. Completely different styles of narration, but the books complement each other fairly well and will explain some of the details of stockmaking that will help you make the above decisions before cutting wood. Measure twice, etc....

Bob

Good suggestion, thanks. "Professional Stockmaking" was one I intended to pick up, although I believe it covers working from a semi-inlet and not from a blank? I'll add "Restocking a Rifle" to the list.

Straight grain in all directions is important and run-out is not acceptable, short of two-piece stocks with stock bolts... And you are very right, two-piecers are far easier to come up with than one...

I got the idea from your posts actually, and have used it successfully on two rifle forends which had movement problems. Though I find it easier to source carbon fibre tube and strip from the local model shop rather than find broken fishing rods.

Paul,

Thank you for sharing this journey with us! The possibilities in that wood make me grin.

Art, thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight!

Keep it up, fellas!

Ed

Great! I am happy something I posted helped out. I seem to leave a never-ending trail of broken rods behind me, so sourcing them is pretty easy!

So, it's been nearly 10 years since I started this thread. Plenty has changed over that time - I got married, bought a house, had two kids, and have had several changes of job title. Looking back at the first post, I've still got the same car though!

Anyway, it's finally time I got properly stuck into making a custom stock for myself. So here's a brief update of where I'm at for those who are interested. The rifle to receive the new stock is my Anschutz 1717 Silhouette .17HMR.

First up was a pattern stock, shown set up on my mill/drill for inletting earlier this year. The wood is Totara - an NZ native that is both easy to carve and very stable.




After a lot of time spent shaping, I got to the point that I was happy with the pattern stock. It's not based on any other particular stock, just a combination of what I think looks good on this rifle and what fits me (emphasis on the latter). This is the first stock I've ever attempted, so dimensions for LOP, cast, pitch, drop etc. etc. came off other factory rifles that I feel fit me well. Having a couple of good reference books also helped.

I'm lucky enough to now have access to a duplicator, and here's the start of the roughing out. I chose a blank with strong mineral streaking and a little fiddleback in the butt (not visible unless planed/sanded). In this tree the best black streaking was in a narrow band adjacent to the sapwood, so there are a couple of compromises in grain layout. The grain is dipping instead of rising in the fore-end (which I'll address by reinforcing the foreend with carbon fibre tubes), and the lower part of the pistol grip goes into sapwood. 90% of this will be removed by the time the stock is down to final size, leaving a small patch on the bottom of the pistol grip only. Not sure yet whether I'll stain the remaining sapwood or leave the contrast - I'll do some trials on scrap.




First stage of the duplication complete. If the stock looks chunky it is because I left a full 1/2" thickness on all surfaces. This is for a couple of reasons - firstly it gave me a chance to gain experience with the duplicator without being close to final lines (I've never run one before), and secondly it gave me room to reposition the pattern relative to the grain after the first duplication. I'll offset the blank by about 1/4" for the next duplication to better follow the grain.




One photo of the rough stock wetted to show the colour:




So that's about where I am at the moment. Next step is to put the stock back on the duplicator sometime in the next couple of weeks to rip down to 1/4" oversize. Then I will let it sit for a few months to allow for movement (if any). After that, down to 1/16" oversize and out of the duplicator for inletting and shaping/finishing by hand in the evenings. I've got some metalwork to do in the interim also, not to mention other unrelated projects. If I can post a photo of a finished rifle stock by Christmas 2020 I reckon I'll be doing well.

Great progress. Many thanks for bringing this thread to the top.

I don't spend much time on this forum anymore, and I'm not sure how many of the posters on a thread nearly 13 years old are still around. But just to close this out for anyone who is still interested, I did end up making at least one stock:













I'm not the best photographer, but the close-up photos are closer to the real stock colour than the full length ones.

That is a beautiful stick of wood. You did well.

You did VERY well, Paul!
That's a gorgeous stock!

Paul,

I'm one of the old guys still here...

That is a beautiful stock and excellent work! Thank you for sharing this journey with us!

Ed