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Re: Mauser Actions [Re: hanco] #11362865 08/10/16
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Pappy348 Offline
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Originally Posted by hanco
Seems like finding an old beat up pre 64 model 70 would be the way to go. You would have a much better chance of building a rifle you could get your money out of.



Not sure I've ever seen a pre64 M70, even a beater for under a grand. Good commercial Mausers, on the other hand can often be had for $400 on up. A lot of those are good to go as-is for hunting, or for a few hundred bucks, can be put in better stocks. The M70s do have the advantage of the existing nice safety, and for me at least, simple good trigger. Mauser triggers run the gamut from very good to truly awful. Many also don't like the slide-off floorplates on many FNs, but I'm fine with them.


What fresh Hell is this?
300 BP

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Jlin222] #11363433 08/10/16
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Originally Posted by Jlin222
Simple question, complicated answer, because the Mauser was such a popular action that it was widely distributed and copied - indeed, most modern bolt actions (with the exception of the multi-lug bolts) are modified/simplified Mausers designed for easier manufacture (i.e. cheaper).

Mauser went through a series of models. Prior to 1893 all their models had a protruding magazine except for a couple black powder models which are mainly of historical interest.

The 7x57 cartridge was actually introduced with the 1893 Spanish model, but the last, and best, Mauser was the Model 98, which was made in large ring (receiver diameter 1.4") and small ring (receiver diameter 1.3") versions. Usually you can tell the difference between large and small ring receivers by looking at where the ring joins the left sidewall - with large ring receivers there is always a step-down to the left sidewall, whereas with small ring receivers there usually is no step-down. The one exception to this that I am aware of is the highly prized Czech VZ-33 and G33/40, which do have a little step-down. The large ring Mausers are considered better for magnum cartridges, but either large or small ring is quite adequate for the 7x57, and the small ring is a couple ounces lighter. There is also an intermediate length action which is about 1/4" shorter than the standard 98 which is well suited for the 7x57.

The Model 98 was originally produced by Germany, but sold and adopted by many other countries. It is the model that gunwriters mean when they refer to a "modern" Mauser action. It was built not only in Germany but also Czechoslovakia (Brno/CZ), Belgium (FN), Yugoslavia, Mexico, etc. It is a strong action not because of its metallurgy, which is carbon steel, but because of its design. Properly adjusted it is one of the most, if not the most, reliable actions, with excellent gas handling in the event of case rupture, which used to be more common than it is now. Its large claw extractor and fixed ejector system are the comparison standard.

As a sporting action, its drawbacks have to do with its bolt handle and safety, which in unmodified military form are poorly suited for scopes (remember that when it was designed, rifle scopes were basically non-existant), and its direct acting double-stage trigger, which while simple and reliable, is heavier than many modern riflemen would prefer. These are the areas where most modern Mausers are modified. In addition, in many modern Mauser actions such as the FN (Belgian) and Zastava/Mark X (Yugoslavian) the left side of the internal receiver collar is milled out as a production shortcut, which compromises gas handling, although the likelihood of cartridge rupture in modern ammunition is very low, so it is more a theoretical risk than a practical one.

So, good modern modified sporting Mausers include:

FN (Belgian) - also the basis of some J.C. Higgins, Western Field, Browning, High Standard, and early Husqvarna models. The Browning and FN versions are somewhat pricy, the Husqvarnas (model 640) a little less so, the private label brands, e.g. J.C, Higgins (Sears) and Western Field (Montgomery Ward) least expensive.

Zastava (Yugoslavian) - Interarms Mark X, Remington 798, more variable in quality than the best actions

Brno (Czech) - 21H/22F (small ring) and ZG-47 (large ring) - pricy particularly as collector interest increases.

The Husqvarna is a special case, because early post-WW II rifles were built on FN actions, then Husqvarna developed their own (small ring) action on a modified 1896 Mauser action, which does not contain a number of the safety features of the 98 Mauser but because of its superior steel is considered as strong as any modern action.

Some military Mausers (can be sporterized with modified bolt handle, aftermarket trigger, low scope safety) include:

GEW 98 (large ring German)

VZ24 (large ring Czech)

Argentine 1909 (large ring, made by DWM in Germany, prized for its exceptional finish and trigger guard bow floorplate release)

VZ33 and G33/40 (small ring Czech)

98a carbine (small ring German)

1910 and 1936 Mexican (small ring Mexican) - designed for the 7x57 cartridge, slightly shorter action than standard 98.

For reading material, Ludwig Olson's "Mauser Bolt Rifles" (available from Brownells) is considered the standard text.

Another good reference which covers many bolt actions including Mausers and many others, is Frank de Haas "Bolt Action Rifles"


Add to this reading list Stewart Otterson's book "The Bolt Action". Otterson was a patent examiner and firearms enthusiast and the 2 volume set examines the history, specifications and dimensions of a number of actions and, includes detailed drawings of each. Excellent reference books.

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Pappy348] #11363466 08/10/16
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Pugs Offline
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Originally Posted by Pappy348
Originally Posted by hanco
Seems like finding an old beat up pre 64 model 70 would be the way to go. You would have a much better chance of building a rifle you could get your money out of.



Not sure I've ever seen a pre64 M70, even a beater for under a grand. G


P64 M70 $850 in classifieds


“The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."
Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #11363975 08/10/16
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hanco Offline
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I have seen a few old model 70's that guys have refinished. If the stocks been cut, that doesn't matter. That old walnut can be made to look real nice. Then if an original stock comes along, it can be swapped out. The value goes way up, making it easy to sell. It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you needed money in a hurry. I would much rather have a 70 than a Mauser. If you tell someone you have an old Mauser to sell, your not going to get much interest. If you say pre64-70, you better get out of the way! You end up putting money in rifle that you can't run fast enough to get someone to buy.

Last edited by hanco; 08/10/16.
Re: Mauser Actions [Re: hanco] #11364004 08/10/16
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bsa1917hunter Offline
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Originally Posted by hanco
I have seen a few old model 70's that guys have refinished. If the stocks been cut, that doesn't matter. That old walnut can be made to look real nice. Then if an original stock comes along, it can be swapped out. The value goes way up, making it easy to sell. It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you needed money in a hurry. I would much rather have a 70 than a Mauser. If you tell someone you have an old Mauser to sell, your not going to get much interest. If you say pre64-70, you better get out of the way! You end up putting money in rifle that you can't run fast enough to get someone to buy.



Sporterized mausers are pretty cheap in these parts. I've bought them for $175.00 etc...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


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Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #11366856 08/12/16
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"It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you need money in a hurry."

That's true of Winchesters, generally. They all have enough of a cult following that at any given time, there will likely be someone fairly local that has the money to invest in a Winchester. A sporterized Mauser, even a really nicely done custom one, or for that matter, a commercial Mauser, will probably take a lot more peddling to get it sold.

Personally, I find military rifles that someone else has "sporterized", to be affordable bases for using rifles. That is, if they haven't been screwed up too badly in the "sporterizing" process, and, of course, have decent bores.

Last edited by Ploughman; 08/12/16.
Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #14206751 10/16/19
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257_X_50 Offline
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And how do the ZKK 600 stand in everyone’s eyes?

Old thread but a great one.

Last edited by 257_X_50; 10/16/19.
Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #14208241 10/17/19
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Some of the best made imho. I’m very biased for all things cz/Brno...but it’s only because i appreciate their quality. The only rifles I own at cz/Brno at this point

This was a great post...except the stupid comments about the vz24.

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Quak] #14212491 10/18/19
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257_X_50 Offline
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Originally Posted by Quak
Some of the best made imho. I’m very biased for all things cz/Brno...but it’s only because i appreciate their quality. The only rifles I own at cz/Brno at this point

This was a great post...except the stupid comments about the vz24.


How close are they in size are they for fitting a stock?
Say a 1909

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #14212530 10/18/19
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Craigster Offline
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This thread has arisen from the dead.

Bravo

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Craigster] #14212672 10/18/19
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vapodog Offline
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Originally Posted by Craigster
This thread has arisen from the dead.

Yup.....it's nine years old.

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: vapodog] #14212852 10/19/19
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Mule Deer Online Content
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No wonder some people claim many Campfire members are living in the past....


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Mule Deer] #14212914 10/19/19
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Dirtfarmer Online Content
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
No wonder some people claim many Campfire members are living in the past....

Could be more of a fact than a claim.

Guess I resemble that remark.

Ha!

DF

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Dirtfarmer] #14213098 10/19/19
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Mule Deer Online Content
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DF,

There apparently is an "age factor" on the Campfire. Somebody (was it you?) started a thread within the past year, asking the age of members. Quite a few responded, and the average was late 60s.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Mule Deer] #14213108 10/19/19
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Dirtfarmer Online Content
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Wasn’t me, but I do resemble that profile.

Like has been said, be nice to old farts, you may be one some day.

Well, seems we’re well represented in those ranks.

DF

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #14213259 10/19/19
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Lee_Woiteshek Offline
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Welp, old thread or not, I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for the CZ version. Either in this thread or the Mauser forum. Seeing as I own two CZ's I guess my next purchases will be a bottle of single barrel and a therapy dog.

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #14213272 10/19/19
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Mule Deer Online Content
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CZ controlled-feed actions strongly resemble 98's, with many of the same or similar features--but they are not strictly Mauser 98 actions.

I personally really like the CZ 550, having owned and hunted with several a LOT....


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Lee_Woiteshek] #14213287 10/19/19
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SawDoctor Offline
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Originally Posted by Lee_Woiteshek
Welp, old thread or not, I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for the CZ version. Either in this thread or the Mauser forum. Seeing as I own two CZ's I guess my next purchases will be a bottle of single barrel and a therapy dog.


My favourite rifle is a cz 750 s1 m1. ( basically a 550 ) It is a finely made rifle.

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: DuckScarer] #14213311 10/19/19
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Lee_Woiteshek Offline
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OK, scratch the dog, but I'm still buying a bottle of single barrel.

Re: Mauser Actions [Re: Dirtfarmer] #14213348 10/19/19
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vapodog Offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Wasn’t me, but I do resemble that profile.

Like has been said, be nice to old farts, you may be one some day.

Well, seems we’re well represented in those ranks.

DF

Ahhhhh Haaaaa….listen up here....you young whippersnappers...just get an ole Mauser and glue up some wood and break out the checkering tools, throw them all together, and you'll have a bang stick ready to put venison in the freezer.....and with a modicum of style too I might add.

We don't need twelve pages of talk about it either.....maybe I can find a few images.....

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