Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 6.5 Roberts

A neighbor a few miles up the road called and asked if I would look at a rifle his son had bought. He thought it was a Mauser of some kind. It is a Jap Arisaka that has been sporterized. The barrel is stamped, "Lechner, 6.5 Roberts". I have seen this conversion before, a 257 Roberts opened up to 6.5. I didn't have a mic with me, so I couldn't measure the bore, but he did get 2 boxes of standard 257 Roberts ammo with the rifle. I pushed a bullet into the muzzle and it was a tight fit. I just tried a .257 daim. bullet in my 6.5x55 and it was tight in it also. I told the guy to have a chamber cast made, but it looks like he is just going to sell it. Anybody know who "Lechner" is, and if it's safe to fire 257 Roberts ammo in this chamber? I think it may split the necks and cause problems, and not be very accurate.

Shouldn't hurt to much, just blow the necks out to 6.5. Might not be to accurate. It should be the same as a 6.5x 57.

Luke,

Never heard of "Lechner" but in an article on the 6.5x57 in Handloader mag., Layne Simpson mentions the "6.5 Roberts Jap". If a .257 Robts case will chamber, (and I'm betting it will), I wouldn't have any qualms at all against firing it. Accuracy likely won't be stellar, because of firing a .25 calliber bullet down a 6.5 mm groove dia. (likely .263")

A little research will net you the facts that it was a popular conversion following WW-II, so returning GIs could fire their war souveniers. After Norma started manufacturing sporting ammo in 6.5x50 Arisaka, there was no need to rechamber.

Ironically one runs across the occasional rechambered rifle. I have seen two of them. HTH...

He needs to have a cast made or have whoever he sells it to sign off tha they will do so or he could be really liable.

All that said, it sounds much like a 6.5 x 257 roberts. the difference is .257 vs .265, or .007, and that ain't much

Since that is my favorite round.. I can set you up with a dummy round if you want to see if that fits..

If you feel it is odd ball, the easiest thing to do is set the barrel back a hair and have it chambered for the 260 Rem...

Performance wise, yes... But the 6.5x257 Robts wildcat does not share the same shoulder angle of the 6.5x57 Mauser. Not drastically different, but enough to not be interchangable. My biggest concern is if the gunsmith who rechambered it, (Assumably a Mr. Lechner...) used a standard .257 Robts reamer, or did he, or did he not use a 6.5 neck reamer. Admittedly the difference is only .007", but a .257 Robts case with a .264" bullet in in may not have enough room to expand to properly release the bullet. Thus creating high pressure.

An easy way to tell, would be to fire a std .257 Robts factory load. Then if the fired case will accept a .264" bullet easily, then it likely has a 6.5 throat... if not, then I'd have the rifle rethroated for a 6.5 bullet.

I believe a chamber cast is in order. With an unknown gun maker and no known standards, you want to know what you are shooting.

The Japanese Arisaka is a very strong action (P.O. Ackley's tests), but I'd still like to know what I have before I shoot it.

All good advise, but it's not mine. I told the owner pretty much all of the above, but they are not gun guys. Looks like the next owner will have to figure it out, but all in all not a bad looking rifle. Thanks to all.

You wouldn't happen to be in the Oshkosh area would you? I seem to recall the name Lechner (gunsmith?) associated with some very fine quality bespoke guns from the east central part of the state.

I'm in Crandon, in the middle of the Nicolet National Forest.

I would not spend another minutes time on an Arisaka gun. Encourage him to sell it.

He can sell it to me.

PO Ackley claimed that the early Arisakas were the only receivers he never manged to blow up during pressure testing. Although the late ones were pretty crude, if properly re-heat treated (which I would guess is the case based on what I can find about Lechner) I would have complete faith in it as a shooter/hunter.

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't say it because I have a 6.5x57 Mauser already. (Not to mention numerous 6.5x55's.) I have been wanting a 6.5 Jap for some time, but the only ones made were the Arisaka military rifle. Had it been in original chambering, I might have been interested. I'd bet it's a nice rifle for a handloader...

Luke
I have a 6.5 x 257 Roberts that is my main hunting rifle at the moment. Its just a straight 257 Roberts necked up to 6.5. Stuck it in a short model 70 pushfeed I had laying around. I normally use 120 or 130 XXX's, shoots accurately enough, and in the 2800 fps range. I chose the XXX because..uhhh..welll...I had several boxes on the shelf. I opened the magazine box up to 3.1 inches, plenty of room.
I use 257 Roberts brass as necking up relieves the need to trim cases. On the initial loading, I dont expand the neck, the XXX has enough taper on the base that I just seat them and let the bullet expand the case. Works like a charm. I used a combination of 6.5 neck sizer, 7x57 body sizer, 7x57 seater with a 6.5 stem to size and load. Worked just fine, but later purchased a correct set of dies.
A while back I told Mule Deer about this, thinking it might be the most practical wildcat ever invented...(save for the 9.3 BS :o) ...make a wildcat and not buy any new equipment and such. I even thought of the title...."The worlds most practical wildcat/or if your just a cheap sum bitch from east Texas."
Charlie

I have a 6.5-257 as well...mine is a rebored 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer Greek military rifle, which at a minimum demonstrates that there are many ways to accomplish the same thing...sort of... .

I acquired it some years ago (from a guy called Grasshopper :D)...wish I could find an original M-S Mannlicher stock for it...that would be pretty.

Building ammo seems to be pretty simple, but it really doesn't like bullets over about 130 gr very well. Maybe it's got rifling like my 6.5x54 Kurz, which has much slower rifling than the Husqvarna, M-S and other contemporary European 6.5's.

As well as I kill stuff with my .260, I am pretty sure any of the 6.5's will work pretty well too... .

Dennis

I have a Type 38 Carbine in 6.5X257 and love it. It has a Timney w/safety and shoots very well with 125 gr. Partitions. Very fun gun.

I have a Swede barreled action on its way from a puchase in the campfire classifieds...I might just have to ask my smith to open it up a little and stamp the barrel "Bob Gustafs"

I Goggled the 6.5x57 cartridge and came up with the following link on the cartridge. After reading the info in the link you should be able to fire the 6.5x55 through the rifle without any problen.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/6-5mm_rifle_cartridges.htm

The 6.5mm (.264 Caliber) Rifle Cartridges

By Chuck Hawks



It is hard to understand why 6.5mm (.264") cartridges in general have never caught on in North America. The more I have learned about the various 6.5's, the more I have come to appreciate them. North American hunters are missing out on a good thing!

In Europe the 6.5's have been popular since the introduction of smokeless powder during the last decade of the 19th Century. The Europeans evidently recognized a good thing when they saw it.

Whether in standard length magnum form for ultra-long range shooting like the 6.5x68S or .264 Winchester Magnum, true short magnum configuration like the long range 6.5mm Remington Magnum (which duplicates the ballistics of the famous .270 Win.), or standard form like the .260 Remington, 6.5x57 Mauser, 6.5x55 Swede, or 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, the 6.5mm cartridges have much to recommend them.

The recoil of the standard 6.5mm cartridges is moderate, the trajectory is adequately flat for most purposes (including hunting in the mountains or on the plains), and their killing power is generally excellent due to the high sectional density of most 6.5mm bullets. Within their individual ranges, the 6.5mm cartridges are suitable for almost all of the medium to medium-large game animals on earth (game up to about 500 pounds). And even larger animals are within the purview of the 6.5mm Magnums.

The advantage of deep penetration conferred by the excellent sectional density of 6.5mm big game bullets should not be underestimated. It is the secret of the 6.5mm cartridge's success. It is what allows 6.5mm bullets to get deep inside of even large animals, where they can do the most damage.

For instance, the light 120 grain 6.5mm bullet has a SD of .246, the same as a 165 grain .30 caliber bullet. The 125 grain 6.5mm bullet has a SD of .256, equal to that of a 170 grain .30 caliber bullet. The medium weight 140 grain 6.5mm bullet has an outstanding SD of .287, which is essentially the same as a 190 grain .30 caliber match bullet. And the heavy 160 grain 6.5mm bullet has a SD of .328, about like a 220 grain .30 caliber bullet. Ponder these comparisons for a moment and it becomes clear why the 6.5's kill almost as well as the larger calibers, but with much less recoil and muzzle blast.

That the 6.5mm cartridges are suitable for most of the world's big game cannot be disputed. The record of the 6.5mm cartridges in Africa, for example, is well documented. 6.5's became the favorite cartridges of many well-known professional hunters in Africa, a number of who wrote about these cartridges. The legendary ivory hunter W.D.M. Bell was among these, and he went so far as to use his 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenhauer with 160 grain solid bullets for brain shots on elephants. He liked the moderate recoil and the deep penetration of the 6.5mm bullets. He also used the 7x57 Mauser with 175 grain solid bullets for the same purpose. With these two calibers he is reputed to have killed over 1000 elephants.

This is not to recommend any 6.5mm cartridge for pachyderm hunting. The point is that the 6.5's are very efficient cartridges with excellent killing power. In the hands of a good shot they are adequate for game from the size of the smaller African antelope and North American javelina up to Canadian caribou, Swedish alg, Spanish red stag, and African Hartebeest.

As demonstrated in Africa by Bell and a slew of other professional hunters, the benefits of low recoil should not be taken lightly. Less recoil makes for more accurate shooting, that is a fact. And good bullet placement is by far the most important factor in killing power. If a hunter can get almost any reasonable bullet deep into the lungs or heart of an animal, that animal is not long for this world. 6.5mm rifles make it easier for hunters to do just that.

Due to their high killing power and relatively low recoil, the standard 6.5mm cartridges are particularly well suited for the popular lightweight hunting rifles called "mountain" or "scout" rifles. When an lightweight, fast handling rifle is combined with a light recoiling but effective game cartridge that the average hunter is able to shoot accurately, the result is liable to be a lot of game taken. And that is perhaps the best recommendation for 6.5mm hunting rifles. You can read more about the individual 6.5mm cartridges on the Rifle Cartridge Page of Guns and Shooting Online.

I've seen rechambered 6.5 Japanese rifles marked "6.5 Roberts," "6.5x257" and "6.5x57."

Those made with a Roberts-based reamer are not the same as the true European 6.5x57. It has a longer body than the Roberts.

Bruce

Excellent reply Bruce. The diagrams (with dimensions) are excellent.