24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,726
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,726
Dober, I think some of us aren't bothered by holdover(dots or not) because that's how we grew up shooting at 50 through +400 yards(calm wind). I can think of a few times where the reticle was a foot over hair and the critter died. Also a few times there was a miss which is why lung shots were the norm, miss low and you won't hit a leg.
These days with lasers and dots and handloads it almost seems like cheating. Also with practice(wind included) a guy learns his limitations as well as what he and the rifle are capable of at a given range.

I would like to save up and get a good scope with turrets but for now am pretty happy with dots(thanks to you) out to 450-500 max.

Last edited by SamOlson; 06/12/10.
BP-B6

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,268
C
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
C
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,268
I'd love to see a side by side contest between 2 shooters. One hold over, and one turret twister. Between 3-400 yards, with paper plate sized targets, at random ranges (like 324, 345, 371, 395) It would be interesting to see which method produced the most precise hits at those ranges. Perhaps if you and Scenar shooter have time to kill? It would also be interesting to see what the actual time difference was between the hold over guy and the turret twister.

Last edited by Calvin; 06/12/10.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,726
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,726
Calvin, I've been setting my targets up at odd ranges just to see how close I can come with the dots. Out to 450 using 6 and 10x scopes it's usually pretty easy to hit within 3 or 4" of the target center, wind of course is trickier.

In a week or two I plan on setting up steel and approaching the targets from different angles and moving the gongs around to keep things interesting. Trying to get practice as close to hunting type shots as possible, should be alot of fun.

Last edited by SamOlson; 06/12/10.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,268
C
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
C
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,268
Originally Posted by SamOlson
Calvin, I always set my targets up at odd ranges just to see how close I can come with the dots. Out to 450 using 6 and 10x scopes it's usually pretty easy to hit within 3 or 4" of the target center, wind of course is trickier.

In a week or two I plan on setting up steel and approaching the targets from different angles and moving the gongs around to keep things interesting. Trying to get practice as close to hunting type shots as possible, should be alot of fun.


I'm curious which method is more precise, at the ranges that most of the hunting community considers "long". (3-400 yards). We all spend a ridiculous amount of time and money getting our rifles to shoot sub moa, I'd think that the masses would be interested in the most precise way to shoot at game.

Perhaps Mule Deer could write an article on the contest?

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,124
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,124
I am enjoying the thread because many of the kills are beyond my skill and comfort zones.

So what size five shot group can you guys shoot from a good rest at 600 or 800 yards?

IC B2

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
[Linked Image]

Surgeon 6XC
[Linked Image]

My oldest son Shane(8) shot this..
[Linked Image]

10 shots at 1000 meters with Surgeon .308 155 scenars.

[Linked Image]

10 shots at 500 meters with GAP built Surgeon .338 Lapua Magnum...under 2".


Luck....is the residue of design...
[Linked Image]
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,837
D
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,837
Would think with some practice you can shrink those groups some wink


My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"

Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK

3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT



Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,124
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,124
scenar,
My applause, I have 3 rifles that will do MOA to 300 yds but only one @ 400. Of course the guy behind the trigger and/or doing the loads have a lot to do with it.
But I have been pondering sending a 300 WSM to GAP, maybe after the economic collapse eases up I will go for it.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,726
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,726
Pat, that is good shooting!

Your 600/700 meter groups are as good as my sporters will do at 400 meters. We'll have to get together and do some shooting this spring/summer.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,210
I am a die hard knob twister...that said, I have missed two animals because of failure to return to zero user errors.

I prefer to use a MOA reticule in conjunction with MOA dials for speed. I often dial part of the elevation in and hold the rest.


IC B3

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
S
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
S
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Did you see me post about shooting big game past 400 yards yet with turrets Mark? Thinking there might be a reason.

There are other benefits besides shooting big game past 400 yards, but considering you can't get you head wrapped around doing away with hogs this might take awhile..........grin

Last edited by Steelhead; 06/12/10.

"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,871
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,871

Sorry Mark, no over 400 yard "real life" shot stories from me.....have shot plenty of LR "real life" paper and steel though. I can recall several 500 yard targets of mine that looked like Shane's 1000 yard one! That boy can shoot.

After seeing this thread and Pat's groups, I'm thinking I need to give turrets a try.


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 49
H
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
H
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 49
Dober,

I'll be picking up my 6.5-06 next week from the gunsmith. I've got a Leupold 4.5-14LR w/ the B&C reticle to put on top but I saw your question about the CDS scope. What did you find out about the CDS? I'm planning on shooting 140's out of my 6.5-06 at deer and antelope. Thanks. HP.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
B
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Originally Posted by Calvin


I'll ask you.. If you put two good shooters side by side, one with turrets and one holding over, which one do you think would be able to consistently be able to make more perfect shots at 400 yards?


I shoot routinely with guys who use turrets,and reticles,pretty regularly.....we use similar cartridges that generate 3000 to 3200-3300 fps.Properly zeroed, such rifles/cartridges show 8"-12" of drop at the 400 yard line.This is not too difficult to deal with,either at the range or in the field.

I remember last year shooting with a buddy at 400 and 500 yards one afternoon;he shooting a 300RUM with turrets; I was shooting a 7RM with the 140 gr AB,and a 2.5-8xLeupold.He clicked,and I allowed for drop with that load;results were too similar to discuss as we both hit what we were aiming at...


We went to 500,where, of course things get trickier. He clicked up;I knew the load dropped about 25" from my zero at that distance,and also knew that POI coincided with the tip of the bottom post of the reticle when the scope was set at 6X. So I had some help which made it easy and this is really just a variation of using dots.

When we got to the butts to check targets my buddy noticed there was no difference in group size nor point of impact between the two targets;he asked how I did it,and I told him.

No one can rationally argue that turrets are not the tool for the job once distances get on the far side of 500 yards or so;or if you use a slower cartrdige with a more curved trajectory; that a reticle assist system of some sort will get you to 500-600 yards easier than holding up in thin air,because bullet drop becomes really excessive at those distances, a lot more so with some cartridges than with others.

I think most of the argument about these various systems comes into play at distances inside 500 yards;some seem to think they are essential at 200 to 400 yards; others have no need for them at these ranges.All seem to work depending on the proficiency of the user; one may or may not be slower or faster than the other but this varies with circumstances in the field.

In a hunting scenario at 400 yards, the turret folks are fond of saying to the holdover guys..."...well, you're holding in thin air...". No you aren't. You have frames of reference which you "know",or should,if you do any shooting/hunting and pay attention and shoot at those distances enough.

I know very little to nothing of turrets and their applications..I do know MPBR and holdover at distances to 400- 500 yards,both at the range and in the field,on live animals,(which are now dead animals smile For me, the turrets would be most useful on the far side of 400 yards;inside that distance,with the cartridges and loads I use to hunt BG, I don't need them for BG hunting.

Course shooting wood chucks and PD's is a different story;and a different ball game as well smile

Last edited by BobinNH; 06/13/10.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,630
N
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
N
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,630
Originally Posted by gunnut308
Hey Dober, a while back on here a fella started a thread on here called "Spinnin and Grinnin" he was shooting a plain ole almost forgotten .270 win (like the one I use every season). He did lots of load development and the works.

He brought home some "Longrange Venison". Its a good read.....

nut

Hi gunnut,
The "Spinnin and Grinnin" thread that you speak of doesn't show up on my searches.. Do you remember who the author was.. Sounds like a thread that I would like to read having a .270 myself that I am just starting to reload for (when I find my dies blush, they havn't turned up on any of my searches either, double blush)
Thanks

Last edited by Nrut; 06/13/10.

It's a great life if you don't weaken..
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,893
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,893
Shot my BIL's wounded cow elk at 475 with my 270TI with a 6x36 with turrets. that's the only time i've ever needed to shoot that far since i started using turrets. I shot a cow elk when was 16 at a guesstimated 600 (pre LRF days) with an 06 with hold over, it weren't pretty but got the job done.

YMMV


I can't spell... Deal with it...
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
"Spinnin and Grinnin"

www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3583069/Searchpage/2/Main/277603/Words/grinnin%2A/Search/true/Spinning_and_Grinning_turrets#Post3583069


Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!

Stolen from an erudite CF member.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,630
N
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
N
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,630
Thanks for that link Rick!
Now you don't happen to know where I put my .270 dies do you?. whistle



It's a great life if you don't weaken..
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
No, but I have a spare set if you, being a good BC'er and all, need to borrow them. grin


Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!

Stolen from an erudite CF member.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,435
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,435
Only coyotes, crows and gophers for me using turrets. All my BG animals seem to show up at 350 yards or less grin

Used turrets to nail a few crows and several gophers at 400+ yards. My longest first shot hit to date was on a coyote on a calm morning. Ranged him at 942 yards, got a readout from my ballistic program, dialed it into my 3-9x40 Burris FFII Tactical, squeezed one off and hit him in the chest.

Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
269 members (1minute, 45_100, 204guy, 257_X_50, 10gaugemag, 280shooter, 40 invisible), 2,163 guests, and 963 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,726
Posts18,400,633
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.099s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9057 MB (Peak: 1.0621 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 05:32:41 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS