Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Turrets @ long range, real life tales..(please chime in)

Turrets look like fun, but also seem a bit out of place under 400 yards on BG. Also seem a touch more prone to Murphy and his problems. For BG under 600 yards I like dots, but for small targets I can see where turrets are the real deal. Might give them a spin one of these seasons (pun intended - grin).

Hold over has it's advantages, so do turrets.

A well practiced hold over shooter can probably line up his victim and put the meat on the ground a little quicker. In low light, he has the advantage of not having to take the time to visually check the dial or count clicks, this does take more time.

However, if a buck is poking his head thru the brush at 300+ yds. at the edge of a field and that's all I have to shoot at, I want the turrets. A 3" or 4" mistake with holdover could cost you. I find myself in this type of situation far more because of the terrain I hunt in and that's why I run them on certain rifles.

In short, there are other benefits to turrets than just using them stictly for 500+ long range shooting. When one has to make a precise, mid-distanced shot at a very small target, they are hard to beat.

Disclaimer: I have never killed a big game animal past 350 yds. but I have shot a boat load of coyotes out to 600+ so I may not know what I am talking about.

Used once on my friend's gun (who also happens to be my gunsmith) He dialed the scope for me. All I did was went prone and squeezed the trigger. Missed first shot, but the second one nailed her. 550+ yards. Hard to believe what 75 grainer Amax is capable of...

Brad-I've got a 3-10 Leo with M1 on my 70/06 at this time. Been toting it this spring on most bruin jaunts and working it @ Logan. If you wish to work with it for a bit let me know and I'll drop it off.

JM-yotes @ 600 is a heck of a good shot! I've had more trouble grassing long range yotes than any other critter.

About your 300 yd head shot scenario I've not done it with BG but I did on a yote. My one and only tripple off the call. First two dogs hung up across a coulee so I held the 300 dotz (6/06 with Premier dotz) and got both. Third one ran in some brush and played peekaboo. I cranked up the scope to top end (6-20 Leo) and put the 300 dot on tween the running lights and dropped the hammer (and him).

My point about BG was I didn't wish to have a bunch of people say I shot targets past 400 with them, I wanted to see in the real world of BG hunting how many had and what they had done. And like I had said I knew what SU and Scenar had done but I wanted to hear from others as well. From the responses it doesn't appear that many (including the heavy backers of turrets) have used them past 400. And like I mentioned b4 the reason I picked 400 is cause to me that's when I can begin to see some use for them. And yeah I know that one can use them at less than 400 I get that.

Have a super day and shoot some hogs for me...grin

Dober

And on another side note to all, I am in no way against turrets. I'll most likely use them more in the future. First time I started with them was back in the early 90's for chucks @ llong range with my 240 Page Souper Pooper.

If I get a 7/08 project that I'm on together by fall I'll most likely stick the 3-10 on it and rock on from Minne to Montana. I realize that one fall isn't much of a work out but with my wife, a friends son who'll be with us and several others I hunt with I'm sure it'll see more than a few tags punched..grin

Dober

I may have forgotten to mention I missed more than a few that far as well.

Me not a great wind doper, that's why I started cheating and shooting a 160 gr. 7 mm bullets at them.
We hunted farm fields and would set up using the wind, so the yotes would come out on the far side from us.

Good thing is that past 500 yds. they usually gave me a 2nd chance.

Have a good one.

JM

I shot this morning at 430yds. I did both holdover and turrets, to see if there was really any difference between the two. according to JBM, 6.7moa on the turret, or 28-29 inch holdover. Same rifle for both. No wind at all. 162amax out of a 7saum.

My target was a smaller shoe box, that would hold kids shoes, with a piece of blue tape in the middle to give me something to aim at. I hit the shoe box on every single shot (shot a total of 12 times), with both my holdovers and using the turret. Because I'm not used to holding over, it took me twice as long to pull the trigger, as I was trying to get some sort of reference for 29" With a little practice though, it'd be nothing for me to speed up the process though.

My last 3 shots with the turret resulted in a sub 2" group, with 2 of the shots touching. I said enough, and put the rifle away for deer season.

Jm-I totally hear you about missing them, I'd like to have a dollar for every yote I've missed past 300 yds, could take a few of us on a nice hunt most likely. I finally got to the point where I try hard to kill most of the sub 300 yd yotes and take the longer one as I can.

My fav yote rifles are my 6/06 with Premier reticle dotz with 95 NBT's and my 7 Mashburn Super with Premier dotz to 700 and 150 NBT's.

Dober

Good report Calvin, next time set that 162 load 3" high @ 100, thinking the drop would be more like 15" and that'll make it easier. I've found that with hold over that the extra speed to flatten things out don't hurt.

You touched on one thing here and that's that it took you a bit longer to get it done cause you weren't used to the hold over thingy. Pretty sure we'd all find that we're quicker with the methods we've not been using for years. Point being, with hold over or dotz I'd get it done now, cause I've not used the turrets as much it'd take me an extra second or two to get it clicked in. Not much time mind you, I've been spinning a bit this spring and I could do it pretty darn quick. But for me it takes me a second or two more cause I have to think about it. If I new the clicks I had to turn in by heart then all it'd take me is the time it takes to reach up and turn it and then to get my hand back on the pistol grip.

Which brings me to another question for the turret turners. You're shooting right handed do you turn the turret with your right hand or your left?

Thx
Dober

Mr. Dober,
My experiences thus far:

722 Remington .244, 85gr Nosler Partition @ 3400fps, M8 12X Leupold with Stoney Point Knob

Doe antelope 725 yards (broke offside shoulder!)
Buck antelope 625 yards (dropped on the shot)

Pre 64 Winchester 70 .264 Win. Mag, 130gr Scirocco @ 3150fps, M8 8X Leupold with Stoney Point Knob

Doe antelope 475 yards
Buck antelope 625 yards
Doe antelope 600 yards
Buck antelope 775 yards (5-10mph wind, ran 200 yards and dropped. Dropped one lung and quartered behind diaphragm)

CLR hybrid 7mm Rem. Mag, 168gr Berger @ 2950fps, Burris Short Mag 4.5-14X with Stoney Point Knob

Doe antelope 600 yards wounded, broke front leg @ base, follow up shot required @ 150 yards

I have missed a few shots, but only @ 800 to 900 yards, have not missed @ 400 to 775 yards. This reflects my experience at the range as well. Barring wind issues (which are real obviously), the 400 to 800 yard shots are pretty straight forward. Things change beyond 800 yards as the trajectory arc gets steeper (at least with my rifles/cartridges). You've really got to know your stuff and have optimal conditions. Just my two bits!

What has really impressed me is how quickly these animals go down, often bang flops or after staggering in place for a second or two.... lack of adrenaline maybe?

Thx Lund, you from Minne by chance?

My first scope with a turret on it was a 12 leo, really like that scope. Also, I don't have a 8 Leo but do have a 7.5 Leo and love it as well. Probably one of my all time fav scopes.

Dober

I have used turrets since 1999 on big game and longer than that on varmints. My longest shot using turrets was on a magpie that kept coming in to feed on a rockchuck I had killed earlier when I was closer. The dead chuck was at 750 yards now and after a few tries to figure out the wind I finally nailed the magpie. I was pretty stoked.

Back in 1999 I saw my first cougar. It was in August and at that time the season started on August 1st. When I first spotted it the range was 600 yards. I did some calling and brought it in to 500 yards. It was across a canyon and if it got much lower in the canyon I would not be able to see it again (brush as well as it was right at sunset). At the time I did not have my Stoney Point Target Knob yet attached to my Leupold VXIII 2.5-8 so I tried to judge the holdover of 23" (7mm Rem Mag shooting the blue Barnes 140 XLC with a 275 yard zero). I missed twice- I did go over to look and found no evidence of a hit. I figure I just mis judged the holdover. Mountain lions are not very deep back to brisket. Any way I was mighty bummed. Shortly after that I did get the target knob attached and practiced with it. Later that November I spotted a deer at 508 yards and got prone with my Kramer Snipepod and dialed up 19 clicks and fired one shot which dropped the deer DRT.

In early October of 2004 I shot a black bear at 540 yards with the same scope mounted on my 300 Win Mag. Later that same month I shot a deer at 455 yards across a canyon. I decided to go up the ridge I was on and drop off some stuff, including my rifle, back at my truck before heading up hill and down another ridge to get on the other side of the canyon where the deer was before dropping down to the deer. When I got down to it I found that a bear was wanting to lay claim to my deer. I was quite surprised that it did not run off when it first saw me. It was probably surprised that I did not run off too but dang it that was my deer and I had the foresight to pack along my hogleg (Ruger Bisley 45 Colt with handload consisting of Beartooth Bullets 345 grain Hard Cast thumper. I fired a round over the bear's head and it finally begrudgingly departed. Lucky for it that I had already filled my bear tag. I will tell you though that I was rather nervous as it got dark on me well before I was done converting the deer carcass into packable pieces.

In late November of 2005 my brother used my 300 Win Mag to take a deer at 480 yards after he dialed in the clicks as instructed by me at his side.

In Feb of 2006 I used the same setup to kill my second cougar (first one was taken in Jan of 2001 with my 7mm but I did not need to use the turret as it was only at 310 yards). I had tracked the lion for a couple hours through a couple canyon and ridges when I spotted it further up the canyon I was now in. It was slowly working its way up the slope on the opposite side of the canyon from me. It was 440 yards out and I dialed in the neccesary clicks and let out a meow at it to stop it. This worked and I fired. The cat ran back down into the bottom. I thought I had connected and proceeded up the canyon toward it. After a bit I saw it again going up the slope. I was now 400 yards from it so I adjusted the turret and got prone in the deep snow and fired after again stopping it with a call. This time I made a good hit. After finally working my way to it I discovered that my first shot had only grazed its hind leg (it was quartering away from me at that shot more than I realized). The second shot was a good chest hit).

Sometime in 2007 that 2.5-8 crapped out on me and I decided to have Leupold exchange it for a 3.5-10 with the B&C reticle so that is what I am now using. I thought the new scope would have the same adjustments as my old one and I had planned on installing the Stoney Point Target Knob so that I could use it as well as the B&C reticle but found out when it arrived that they had changed the adjustment knobs. I liked using the turrets but do wonder if all that dialing up and down wore things out. The B&C reticle seems to be a pretty good alternative for me (I really do not see much likelihood of me shooting at game beyond 600 yards).

Dober,
Actually reside in Utah, but my Grandfather's family homesteaded in Abercrombie, ND about 40 miles south of Fargo. I lived in Fargo for one year back in 1991, really liked it and obviously developed an affinity for Lund boats while there! I spent a fair amount of time fishing over in the Detroit Lakes area. Some of the nicest people in the world live in that upper midwest area.

I love the M8 fixed scopes as well. I picked up a 7.5 as well but have not found a home for it. Went with the 8X because of the AO but probably not needed.

I was up in your country last week fishing around Quake Lake. Lots of rain so I took a trip to Ennis to check out Shed Horn Sports. Very nice! I see why you guys like that place. Ennis is'nt too bad either... never get tired of that country, rain or no rain. Fishing was'nt bad either.

DL is the area I got older at (could say grew up but that wouldn't be quite true now would it...grin).

Next time you're up here give me a call. I hear they're hitting the Gulpers pretty well on the N shore of Hebgen right now. Quake has always given me fits when it comes to fishing, love the country but it hasn't treated me well in terms of catching fish. I was in Shedhorn last week as well. A fella brought in a M70 PF 7x57, wonder if it's still there?

Dober

I recently dialed my .22LR in for 235 yards, with no wind. Missed a killdeer by 1" left, made the correction and the feathers really flew.

Now that's what I should of been using all those years as a kid chasing those darn killdeera round with a stick and string. I'd get just about close enough and then move another 10 yds...

Dober

You may want to refrain from that story. They are Federally protected.

Dober,
Yes, the M70 7mm Mauser was still there and caught my eye! And so did the Winlite 300 Wby, the Model 61 .22's, the Savage 99's, and the...., and the....! I finally had to walk out... needed money to get home. Glad I'm not too close to that place.

Calvin hit the nail squarely on the head with his comment on "some sort of reference".This is completely true dealing with a shoe box or some other small target at 430 yards;and the fact that he likely was zeroed lower than for example, I'd be likely to be zeroed with the same load,so had to deal with more drop.

The key issue with hold over is that,with a BG animal(anything from a pronghorn buck -15" through the chest;to a big northern deer of either species-18"-20" through the chest,to a bull elk,where I always used the figure of app 32" to figure this stuff out,the animal itself provides that frame of referencethat Calvin was looking for but had to sort of "guess at" with the shoe box.Which is why I have said before that you are not "holding in thin air" with the "holdover";you have a very definite point of reference on a BG animal,and gravity is constant.

Zeroed 3" high at 100 yards with a 7 mag and 160 gr bullet at 3100 or so,a guy is about 3.5" high at 200,dead on at 300 yards(similar loads from 270's and 300 mags behave about the same). At 400 yards such a load is down about 10".On a buck deer,a slight bit of daylight between top of back and crosshairs will give a center chest hit;on a bull elk a high shoulder hold will give about the same results.Point to this is that you always have this same point of reference,and why, to 400 yards on BG animals,this sort of system is fast and flexible.

Obviously if your target is a 4" dot at the same distance of 430 yards,a precisely zeroed scope with turrets will pull you right in;and ditto on a varmint rifle where the target is a woodchuck or some other small animal.But it's different when hunting BG animals.

Another point when hunting BG is that if you used a fixed 4X or 6X (say)for a lot of your BG hunting,and shot distances to 600 yards with it,you developed a very definite "feel"for how far away animals were because you were always dealing with one magnification,as opposed to being able to jump around as one can with a variable(this may not be as important now as it was for many of us prior to introduction of reliable rangefinders). You also had consistent reticle subtension that helped with bullet drop and ranging animals; this is good stuff to know if the rangefinder quits or it is otherwise impossible to get a reading, as happened to me last year at 340 yards.

Zeroed the way I suggested with a 7 mag,and a fixed 6X(or say a 2.5-8 set on 6X) Leupold,your 500 yard aiming point is the bottom post of the duplex; so even holdover guys use the reticles to help them,and is part of the reason some say the turrets are not needed to 400 yards or so.

This all becomes very intuitive after a lot of hunting and shooting,which is helpful at times.One big-bodied 5x5 bull elk was peeling through the oak brush,running from another hunter.I ran to get into the best possible position,plopped prone and a quick glance and a peek through the 4X told me I was dealing with 450-500 yards.(Even if LRF's had been available, there was no time to use it.)The bull stopped and turned, quartering on and I gave 18-20" of holdover(300 Win Mag-180 at 3125),hit point of the shoulder,which dumped him;his head was still up so I held slightly above the base of the antlers,and the second shot broke his neck.It was over in about 10-15 seconds because it had to be done in that time frame or not at all....like Dober says sometimes things happen fast up on the hill.

....a good guy with turrets would likely have pulled it off as quickly.I dunno; we didn't have them then....

Today you can mix and match both systems to suit you.

While you phrase the question nicely and even give a "Thx" I can't help but get the feeling the question doesn't match the intent.
I have and am a proponent of both aim point reticles and turrets and see the value and benefits of both. The quarry/range criteria make most of my experience not applicable.