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maddog Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Amazing. You mean there isn't one premium .375 bullet that kills buffalo and all the rest bounce off?


JB, you,re right, but it sure is fun to get everyone's opinion!grin

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Agreed!


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MD, I absolutely agree. There are too many bullets to list that will do the job. I was trying to show that you should probably check with the PH you will be hunting with to see what he prefers. We all know that are many ways to skin a cat but if your PH doesn't have confidence in what you are shooting, it will affect the hunt. JJHack likes the TSX, Shakari doesn't like TBBC, Buzz doesn't like TSX's, Myles McCallum doesn't really care he just wants you to practice.

It doesn't matter on here what people tell you when you head to Africa since you are required to use a PH. Discuss it with him is my recommendation.

Jorge, thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm headed to the range some more tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll have some pics to post in the next few weeks.
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also bear in mind that the right bullet for the right animal is only half the story. You also need to consider and decide the right load.

Good examples of this are the Woodleigh bullets where it's very important to pay strict attention to the recommended terminal velocity printed on the box and the good old Winchester Silvertip. A lot of people hate those things but from my experience they work an absolute treat when handloaded to a moderate velocity but the factory loads make them too fast which then causes problems.


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Originally Posted by Shakari
also bear in mind that the right bullet for the right animal is only half the story. You also need to consider and decide the right load.

Good examples of this are the Woodleigh bullets where it's very important to pay strict attention to the recommended terminal velocity printed on the box

Have to agree on the Woodleigh bullets and the velocity recommendations based on one guy here in Sweden...

He shoots moose with a .358 Norma and Woodleigh bullets going about 350fps faster than intended.

I have seen some of his recovered bullets, and they are like US silver dollars -- huge diameters and expanded all the way to the base! Quite the testimony to Woodleigh's bonding, but not ideal performance in my opinion.

He is a believer in that mythical concept "hydraulic shock". Well, moose just do not seem impressed by shock to me -- they take about a minute to die (during which time they run into a swamp or some handy ice water if deep enough, but that is another story). frown

Good thing he was never able to get his hands on those A-Square bullets with the brittle jackets that were designed to fragment ("Lion Loads"?) or he would be launching those!

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If you are using a premium bullet,I would think shot placement is more critical?

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I like Woodleighs a lot, but have seen the flattening when they're pushed beyond their recommended muzzle velocity. In fact, I once saw a 360-grain Woodleigh .416 stopped by a fallow deer doe that at most weighed 100 pounds.

The rifle was a .416 wildcat that pushed the bullet to 2650 fps, and the shot was placed just behind the rear of of the ribcage as the doe quartered away. The bullet was recovered from the skin on the opposite shoulder (literally from the skin, as one petal was poking through). Weight retention was great, but the bullet was 2-1/2 times as wide as it was "long."


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TSXs, everything else is at best, second best...jorge


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On all sorts of game I have recovered only two tsx bullets, and never lost an animal to them. I have used Hornady interlocks before that with good success, but as Jorge says, they are a second best choice. Remington core locks have been used by me for years at moderate velocities with success, but once I switched to tsx, I have only used them for paper punching. When developing loads for my 375, I have started with the tsx and solid flat nose barnes right from the start. I may reload some cup and core for trigger time, but have not yet purchased any components.

I respect those opinions that differ from mine, but have formed my own from experience with many different cartridges, an am confident.

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Jorge,

I'll have to disagree with you there my friend.... I'm not suggesting they're a bad bullet but that there are plenty of others out there that are equally good at least.

I also have to say that I'm beginning to distrust any bullet that forms petals simply because I reckon if/when a petal breaks off it must cause the bullet to become unstable.

That said, I'm just a layman and know bugger all about the technicalities/science of it, so I could well be wrong.


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Originally Posted by Shakari
I don't think you should judge a bullet on it's successes but rather by it's failures and failure rate. As I see it, one failure will tell you more about the bullet than a thousand successes and regular or repeated failures of a specific type will tell you even more.


That's a well stated idea, one which is worth considering, even when one is enjoying the honeymoon with their new "bestest" bullet. (Just wait until she cheats on you! wink )


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No issues with disagreements, but I've just talked to too many people including Saeed's experieces (and my own) to think there is a better bullet out there than the TSX. As for Woodleighs, no thanks. Might work well in doubles at those velocities, but I like speed and if a TSx does lose it's petals then it just becomes a solid. I've used A Frames on buffalo and they were fantastic, but from what I have observed, the TSX penetrates better and expands well.


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I have posted photos of the two recovered tsx bullets. The failure lost its petals, but retained 85% of original weight, penetreted 3 feet and the internal flight path curved only 3 inches when it slowed at the end of its path. The other was a perfect x pattern and travelled straight with 3.5 ft penetration and weighed 100% of original. I an not saying there are not bullet failures with them, but none of those failures have impacted negatively. There are many other good bullets out there, but my experience has bought me confidence, in fact it is more often I who fail the bullet that it fail me.(shot placement off by a few inches)

Randy


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Bottom line: Saeed over at AR has taken over 150 buffalo with the TSX including a few Texas Heart Shots that went all the way through the paunch and destroyed the vitals. That about covers is for me.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Bottom line: Saeed over at AR has taken over 150 buffalo with the TSX including a few Texas Heart Shots that went all the way through the paunch and destroyed the vitals. That about covers is for me.


What do ya do, when the ph says to many pas thrus in a herd? Assuming you wat to hunt with what the ph tells ya?

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Don't use solids. You shoot a buffalo right, I mean in the shoulder and you won't get a pass through. Other than that, Saeed didn't have any problems. As far as PHs it is a good idea to listen to them naturally, but you show up with TSXs (or any bullet for that matter) and the PH really doesn't care. jorge


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This business about overpenetrating in herds is of some concern. What about using 270 grain TSX bullets instead of any 300 grain expanding bullet for the first shot? The 270 gain TSX will probably hold nearly all its weight and penetrate farther than many "older" 300 grain soft points but not as far as a 300 grain TSX.

Many PHs, including my first and so far only buff hunt PH, recomment a soft point for the first shot and solids for follow on shots at buffalo. I am suggesting 270 grain TSXs and 300 grain North Fork solids. the 270 grain TSX seems good for plains game also.


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The 270 TSX b/c of how fast most loads and people drive them was the problem according to my PH. I guess you could load them down a little and they would work. Not sure.
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I've never hunted cape buff., but I have spoken with several PH's at length about preferred caliber and bullet selection. To a man, all stated they prefer a premium soft, with some solids on hand for follow-up "just in case".

As to which bullet.... all the bullets mentioned thus far on this thread were well represented. However, it is interesting to note, in all my discussions it was apparent that one particular bullet seemed to be preferred (and by a large margin) by the over whelming majority of PH's..... the A-frame.

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