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Originally Posted by Ebby
The 270 TSX b/c of how fast most loads and people drive them was the problem according to my PH. I guess you could load them down a little and they would work. Not sure.
Lee


I disagree. Load them as fast as you can and what gives you the best accuracy. A lot of PHs in my opinion (take it for what it's worth) grew up with conventional cup and core bullets and POS like Kynochs. To them they like heavy and slow. With today's modern premium bullets heavy and FAST is the key to success. Then again what do I know. jorge


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I got a few 375cal TSX 270gr a couple weeks ago and finally tried them out today.

Dug these out the course sand berm. Most weighed between 257 - 265 grains. The lightest in the bunch was 235gr. All grouped well for 1.5" to .75".

First time I've used them in the 375/338. I'm impressed. smile

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Ebby
The 270 TSX b/c of how fast most loads and people drive them was the problem according to my PH. I guess you could load them down a little and they would work. Not sure.
Lee


I would be more concerned with not enough speed when working with TSXs.

[Linked Image]

This guy punched the meaty parts of a moose's shoulders at 150-ish yards. It's a 235 TSX which was started at 2500 fps. I don't consider it to be "too much" in either expansion or penetration.

But even a measly 100 grainer from a 7mm-08 can double on light animals as this one did on caribou at 200+ yards.

[Linked Image]

There is certainly a case to be made for using a bullet that expands well enough to stay inside of an animal which is frequently hunted in herds. I never recovered a 140 XFB, the usual X I used when hunting caribou with the -08. I lost a 150 XFB when I quickly got 40% of my daily allowance of caribou when shooting the 30-06. I'm sure I could have trippled quite readily if the animals had lined up for me.


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Jorge, I'm not disagreeing with you. I like the TSX and shoot them in lots of guns. I worked up some loads for the trip too. My PH just says that he has seen some pass thru's with the 270 gr version. He says most guys push them at 2750 fps or so and that they kill great but they sometimes punch thru and he doesn't want to run the risk. He said use the 300 gr at about 2500-2550fps if I wanted to use the TSX. He then said that he preferred the A-frame so I bought those and have been using them.

He doesn't have one problem with the TSX as far as killing Buffalo. They penetrate really well and you often don't need solids b/c they get so much penetration. I just didn't want to have to pass any shots b/c deep down he may thinking that I might injure another animal. I have killed plenty with tsx's just not Buffalo so I deferred to the "expert". Ha!
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No problem Ebby, I just don't agree the 270 TSX will outpenetrate the 300 TSX. The A Frames are a great bullet, like I said that is what I've used on buffalo with great success. Cheers, jorge


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It seems to me that trying to calibrate things so that a bullet won't exit on a sideways shot is a bit difficult. It might exit on a lung shot but not exit if one or both shoulders are hit. If it doesn't exit on the lung shot, it might not penetrate enough on the shoulder shot. Buffalo don't stand exactly sideways either, and come in different sizes. You might be 20 yards away or 100 yards away. Too many variables.

Besides, it's altogether fine to study Kevin Robertson's book of photos to see where the anatomy is, but the several buffalo I have ever considered shooting, including the one I did, all seemed to be big black buffalo shaped things standing in the shade, and I could not make out things like the point of the shoulder.



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Actually, it isn't too diffcult to find a bullet that will penetrate a buffalo's chest from any reasonable angle and yet usually stay inside even on broadside shots.

One of the most common misconceptions in hunting is that a bullet that won't exit on a broadside shot behind the shoulder won't penetrate enough on an angling shot. But unless they disintegrate, almost all big game bullets are stopped by the hide on the far side, because it is elastic and tough. The same bullet isn't going to simpy stop in the middle of soft lung tissue somewhere in the middle of the animal.

As an example, I have seen quite a few elk and some moose taken with the 150-grain .270 Nosler Partition. It has usually stopped under the hide on the far side, even on rib shots, but I have also seen it penertate from the rear of a quartering away bull moose's ribs to the meat of the opposite shoulder--where it also ended up under the hide.

Many lead-cored bullets open widely enough and "rounded" enough to stop under the hide on the far side of a buffalo, especially if they open farily widely. Yet they will still penetrate on a frontal or angling shot.

Petal-type bullets, like the X, often pop through the hide, probably because the front end if less rounded. The petals may also do some cutting. At any rate, they seem to tear through the hide more than lead-cored bullets with more rounded from ends, such as the Swift A-Frame, Woodleigh or Nosler Partition. I once shot a buffalo with a 300-grain Fail Safe from a .375 H&H and the exit hole was a couple inches across--and one of the torn-off petals was found on the edge of the hole.


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IMHO, I think it has less to do with the petals on the TSX and more to do with the blunt, rounded face of a lead-core bullet. When it reaches the hide on the far side, it often doesn't have the energy to drive through given its shape. If I had to pick a bullet for Buffalo that would do the trick but likely stop under the hide on the far side, I'd go with either a 260 or 300 grain Partition -- the latter loaded down somewhat.

Having said that, and given the phenomenal results I've had with the 270 TSX on my one-and-only Namibia hunt, you'd have to specifically tell me that I couldn't hunt with that bullet!


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I have settled on a couple of bullets for the .375 H&H and that would apply to the 375 Ruger also..

My favorite soft for DG is by far is the wonderful 350 gr. Woodleigh. and its a great bullet for anything that doesn't require a solid..

If, however, I was restricted to one bullet for all of Africa it would be the GS Customs "Cup Point"..Diker to Hippo, Buffalo, Lion it would suit me just fine. If elephant were on the menu then I'd probably opt for the GS Customs flat point solid, but I believe the cup points would get the job done..I just don't like being limited in bullet choice..

For the USA, about any good 300 gr. soft suits me. The Nosler rates high as do the lighter GS Customs HV HPs, and the 350 gr. Woodleigh still fits in well for elk in the thick stuff.

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I was recently at gunsite and talked to Il Ling New, one of the instructors there. She had taken a 375 H&H to Australia and used the then new 350 grain Barnes TSX 375 bullets. Several Water Buffalo were shot with this bullet at various distances and they really like the results. She showed us several recovered bullets and they looked picture book perfect.

I would have worried that the slower moving 350 grain bullet may not open as well, but for her it worked great. I think it would be a bullet I would try out.

Last edited by elkrazy; 07/09/10. Reason: Clarify the 350 was a Barnes TSX
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I "go the other way" when it comes to bullets. The 270gr TSX2750 plus will penetrate with the best of them and it's flat enough to take a kudu at 350 plus. jorge


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jorgeI,
In the 375 with Swift A-Frames, did you prefer the 270 or 300 grain bullets for buffalo?

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Actually, it isn't too diffcult to find a bullet that will penetrate a buffalo's chest from any reasonable angle and yet usually stay inside even on broadside shots.

One of the most common misconceptions in hunting is that a bullet that won't exit on a broadside shot behind the shoulder won't penetrate enough on an angling shot. But unless they disintegrate, almost all big game bullets are stopped by the hide on the far side, because it is elastic and tough. The same bullet isn't going to simpy stop in the middle of soft lung tissue somewhere in the middle of the animal.

As an example, I have seen quite a few elk and some moose taken with the 150-grain .270 Nosler Partition. It has usually stopped under the hide on the far side, even on rib shots, but I have also seen it penertate from the rear of a quartering away bull moose's ribs to the meat of the opposite shoulder--where it also ended up under the hide.

Many lead-cored bullets open widely enough and "rounded" enough to stop under the hide on the far side of a buffalo, especially if they open farily widely. Yet they will still penetrate on a frontal or angling shot.

Petal-type bullets, like the X, often pop through the hide, probably because the front end if less rounded. The petals may also do some cutting. At any rate, they seem to tear through the hide more than lead-cored bullets with more rounded from ends, such as the Swift A-Frame, Woodleigh or Nosler Partition. I once shot a buffalo with a 300-grain Fail Safe from a .375 H&H and the exit hole was a couple inches across--and one of the torn-off petals was found on the edge of the hole.


I think this is exactly correct. In my favorite, but very long, series of articles on terminal performance, the author noted: "Typically, once a bullet has entered the thoracic cavity, it will at least cross the entire cavity, even if it is captured under the hide on the other side of the body. Consequently, the maximum thoracic depth implies a minimum mean wound diameter of roughly 7.5 mm to be effective. And again, these figures are drawn from data in which wounds did not rapidly coagulate, so the minimum for bullets will be larger in practice.� http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/mechanics.htmls

So, if a rifle bullet makes it into the chest cavity, it generally will keep moving until it gets to the hide on the far side (or bone, but there�s none in the chest cavity). Thus, it seems like the concerns about the number of inches of penetration is not a linear problem�it can take a lot for a bullet to penetrate into the chest cavity of a particular animal, but if it does, it sails through the soft internal organs until it hits the hide/bone on the other side.

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On Cape buffalo I sure want a bullet that will give me an exit hole most of the time on a broadside shot. You get a lot more blood on the ground that way and blood on the ground can be a life saver IMO...mostly cause you know about where he is..I don't like those sneeky surprises. I am not of the school that a bullet must expend all its stuff inside, I like them blow a big hole coming out thus my choice of the GS Customs cup point and the big 350 gr. Woodleigh PP. for herd hunting I swap the PP for the less penetrative round nose 350 gr. Woodleigh and it does stop on the off side hide, but that's better than having two buff mad at you at the same time. Just my opine.

But in the end and cutting through the usual stuff, to kill a buffalo or any animal is kinda like drinking a beer, you punch a big hole in them with about any good bullet and let the juice out and you have a dead soldier..I have seen only a few failure with the .375 and that happens with lighter bullets and only on frontal shots that hit solid but slip around the rib cage go under the shoulder on top of the rib cage and do little more than tick the bulls off..It happens pretty often btw..I only have knowledge of this happening with the .375 and 9.3s and with the lighter mid weight bullets in those two calibers..Both are great DG rounds but I would pass on frontal shots, or go for the head shot.

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Originally Posted by ar15a292f
jorgeI,
In the 375 with Swift A-Frames, did you prefer the 270 or 300 grain bullets for buffalo?

With the A Frames I had good penetration with the 300. Never used the 270. In the TSX as I stated I prefer the 270 as fast as I can get it.


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I will reiterate what I said, and what jorge said earlier...I liked 300 gr. A-Frames..

the buffalo didnt...but I did... grin

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Originally Posted by jorgeI
[quote=ar15a292f]jorgeI,
In the TSX as I stated I prefer the 270 as fast as I can get it.


Anyone have experience with the 250 TSX?


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Originally Posted by WiFowler
Originally Posted by jorgeI
[quote=ar15a292f]jorgeI,
In the TSX as I stated I prefer the 270 as fast as I can get it.


Anyone have experience with the 250 TSX?


In the 9.3x62mm, yes. Killed the bear in my avatar quite handily. Penetration is excellent.

In fact, on several occasions I've shot two feral hogs with the same bullet, and on one occasion three. One day I'm hoping four piggies will line up just right... grin

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I like A-frames and TBBC. Both worked well on my safari. My partner using A-frames and I was using the TBBC.

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Hi,

Have any of you used the Federal TBBC .375 H&H 300 grs High Energy ammunition in hot weather? If you do, what`s your experience?

Thank your very much

PH


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