Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles .222 vs .221 ?

Hi Guys~

Ive had a hankering for a .222 Remington for a long while probably in a CZ rifle.......

Now im wondering if may be a .221 Fireball in a CZ would be a better choice ? Shorter powder column, and something different too.........

Im only looking at 200 yards fox, rabbit, crow, Hare, rifle what ever i get it i will fit a full length silencer........

Maybe i should just get a silencer for my .308 and stick to 125 gn TNT'S <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Englander

This is reaching back quite a ways in my memory, but I'll try to help as much as I can.

The .221 Fireball is/was a factory-shortened .222 Remington cartridge. Remington originally developed the .221 Fireball as a pistol (not a rifle) cartridge by shortening the .222 Remington rifle cartridge by about .3 of an inch.

I hunted varmints extensively with a heavy barreled .222 Sako... and in my judgement, a .222 Remington using a 50 grain varmint bullet is an excellent 225 yard rifle. Beyond 225 yards, the bullet tends to drop dramatically. I tested my .222 Sako using my handloads in 50 yard increments from 50 yards to 250 yards... and there was a 6-inch drop between 225 & 250 yards. I still have the 40 year old targets to prove it.

As I remember, the .221 Fireball had a muzzle velocity of about 2600 fps with a 50 grain bullet compared to 3200 fps with the same bullet out of a .222 rifle.

Of course, the XP-100 Remington pistol which was introduced to shoot the .221 Fireball only had about an 11 inch barrel compared to a 24 inch barrel on the .222 rifles. This difference in barrel length accounted for much of the "difference" in velocity.

I remember when the .221 Fireball first came out & was written up in all the gun magazines... guess I'm "dating" myself, eh?

I see NO ADVANTAGE to the .221 Fireball unless you already own a pistol for which it's chambered. I'm not sure... but as I remember, I think the .221 Fireball originally came out in the Remington bolt-action handgun... I believe it was called the "Remington XP100"... but now we are REALLY "reaching" into the depths of my memory of the event.

As I recall, that same bolt action that was originally developed for the XP-100 Remington bolt-action pistol was eventually used in the Remington Model 600 rifle when Remington brought it out a few years later. I'm really not sure... that happened a long time ago.

Of course, now the Remington 660 rifle had been introduced. It's nothing more or less than the old discontinued Remington 600 rifle with a few modifications.

But the Remington 600 (aka "660") was 'way ahead of it's time given the current craze for small, light rifles shooting short, fat cartridges.

Remington also introduced the Remington 6.5mm (.264) Magnum and the Remington .350 Magnum in the Model 600 rifle. While the 6.5 never did much, the .350 Magnum enjoyed a some popularity.

As I recall, the short little .350 Remington Magnum cartridge had about the same ballistics as the .35 Whelen, but could be fired out of the short, light Model 600 Remington rifle. Of course, the recoil of such a rifle/cartridge was VERY evident. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As regards the "silencer" you are considering... "silencers" are illegal in the USA... and won't do you much good on high velocity cartridges like either the .221 Fireball, .222 Remington OR a .308 Winchester. The "crack" heard when a high-velocity cartridge is fired is the sound of the bullet breaking the sound-barrier. The "sound-barrier" is broken at about 1225-1250 fps... and either of these two bullets are much faster than that.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Ron T
Silencers are restricted in the USA and are illegal for most hunting. But they are legal and very popular in Britain. Don't want to disturb the neighbors when when you waste that wabbit, don't you know. Grin

And if our first poster's handle is any indication, he just might be from merry old ......

Practicality says the .222 would be the obvious choice, but when were shooters ever practical?

The Fireball is a very efficent cartridge, a modern Hornet if you will. With the 40 grain plastic tipped bullets, it is murder on crows and fox. You can drive them plenty fast for your anticipated ranges. Loading a 50 grainer handicapps the cartridge, IMO.

If you don't have problems finding brass, go for it.

BTW, suppressors are legal in my state. A good can on a rifle will make you giggle like a girl....

I recently purchased a Rem LVSF in 221 Fireball. My searchs on multiple forums for load data indicate most folks are using 40 grain bullets and getting 3000 to 3500 fps out of their rifles with 3400 to 3500 being the norm.

Most are using RL7 or Lil Gun.

I'll second the 40gr pill advice for the Fireball. My LVSF will shoot 40grs at 3500 fps w/ 16gr of Lil'Gun. I've got some loaded all the way to 16.8gr and am just waiting to get to the range to test them. The July 2002 issue of Varmint Hunter Mag shows a load of 17.3gr of Lil'Gun, w/ a 40gr Nosler BT, 25" barrel @3760fps.
I've never had a .222 but I have plenty of experience with the .223. I just dont think there is a magic powder like Lil'Gun for them. H335 is probably the closest for the .223.

Why not just a 223 rem, if mounting a silencer on it, it be easyer to sell, if that need ever accured. Also, there are rifles on the market already set up with a silencer in caliber 223 rem, you just need to look in the right places.

Here is a local guy I know and recommend that can make and install a silencer on your rifle properly, He does outstanding work in all aspects of the NFA world, you may have seen his ads in small arms review, on the mini belt fed machineguns he has built and sold to collectors. He will explain the NFA rules and guide you through the process, when calling there just ask for Eric.
Here is his web addy http://www.lakesideguns.com/

Better give Benchmark a try!


X-VERMINATOR

Does "Englander" mean that you live in England ? If so silencers are legal.

I would get a .223 over a .222 and a .221. The main reason is that their is tones of inexpensive ammo available for a .223 and the .223 is just as capable as the other calibers.

Conrad

Sorry Gents ............ i had'nt noticed i never filled in my Location when i registered many moons ago <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Englander = Englishman living in Scotland <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />married to a Scot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> we've been trying to take over Scotland for hundreds of years..... figure id work from within <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Thanks some good info here......... firstly we can have silencers.....although the police wont let us call them that ..... we must call them "sound moderators" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> "Hey i call them a Mango as long as i can have one" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> we have been allowed silencers on .22 LR as long as i can remember, but full bore silencers have only recently been allowed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Whilst they will not silence a full bore my mate .22-250 is a heck of a lot more pleasant on the ears ........cuts out most of the after echo............. a .223 just goes "ping" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I have always used a silencer on my .22 LR as does every rabbit hunter i know always with subsonic ammo.

Just cant bring myself to buy a .223 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> i reload and tend to go for something different...........hence my .444 Marlin rare as rocking horse Poo over here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> its never fired a factory cartridge ...... just couldnt get any its only ever had my reloads.
I justy think there are better rounds than .223 just cos there plentyful and cheap thats no reason to settle for second best <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I looked at a New CZ 527 in .22 Hornet a while back lovely little action and rifle very well put together.........

Mate of my had a .22 Swift Ackley improved. how ever it simply eat the barrel up ....... reckon those new .22WSSM would be similar........ Anyway dont need that much power...

Englander

Englander,
I have no experiance with the .221, but I do have two older Remington 722 Rifles chambered for .222. This is a great little cartridge and is extremely accurate out of both rifles. I do not know if there is any advantage over the .221, but I would think a little bit more powder couldn't hurt. Slightly faster and flatter trajectory. I put my vote on the .222. Good luck either way you decide.
Rob