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Moisture is actually where a tarp WITH stove can shine. See Ed T's solo rigs for sub 3 lbs. of solo heat. Dry out your gear rather than just try to keep it less damp. If no stove, a double wall absolutely is better. And yes, there are areas where no wood is available, so that is a consideration when choosing your shelter.
I sure didn't think there was any tension. Just some guys with a lot of experience (not placing myself among them) and differing opinions based on their experiences. There also seems to be some combining of opinions on tarps and tarp shelters and those should really be separate considerations.
Last edited by CCH; 07/29/10.
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I wasn't aware of any tensions over tents/tarps, just personal preference to fit what we do with them, and swapping info on techniques. That's what I see too. I was particularly interested in your preference for tarps because I know you spend plenty of time in true bug country. For the kind of bivouacs you describe, wrapping up in a tarp or bivy down in the middle of some bushes is just about as good as it's going to get.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I was referring to mostly the flat tarp setups like Okanagon uses so my bad for not clarifying further. I have and use a Hex 3 without a stove but consider it a tent and not a tarp.
No right or wrong, one tries and learns what works for them.
I admit, EdT's and others tepee/stove setups look like the bomb if wood is available and no bugs are present (like late season hunting in the timber). In the mid elevations of the Sierras the first place the bugs go when a storm hits is the driest place they can find - like under a tarp or tent. Mighty tempted to go the Shangra La/stove route for late season or the sub alpine.
Great thread, very informative.
MtnHtr
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You should definitely consider going the Shangri-La route. 
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One issue with tarp camping I've not seen addressed is how folks deal with fog or cloud mist? I've been on alot of trips where a low pressure system rolls in and you are enveloped in mist, (drowning in fog I call it) sometimes for more than a day. You pretty much have to hunker down as visibility drops off and game is hard to spot unless there is some hunting pressure. This mist works its way into all your gear and out comes the garbage bags and rain gear. With a tent there is still some moisture issues but its alot easier to manage and warmer by far.
And then there is the wind issue, I encounter high winds both up high and mid elevations. Its alot nicer to be in a tent rather than under a tarp, and some tarps don't handle gusts well no matter how well you tie them down, nothing like watching your tarp blow off at 3:00 in the morning! lols! (you're not going to sleep anyways under those conditions)
I can see in some situations where a tarp is better, mostly in terms of weight. But for most lightweight hunts I prefer a small mtn tent under 4lbs.
MtnHtr All valid concerns and helpful advice! Nice post. Another thing I like about a tarp is I can set it up anywhere I may be.. Spent nights sleeping in a deer or elk bed on the side of a steep slope that no tent I no of could have been pitched.. And as mobile as I prefer to be a tarp weighs "alot" less and takes up less space. I watch the weather closely and deciede if the tent will make the trip the day before I leave.. Tarp always goes regardless. And given the unpredictability of weather in the N.Cascades if I go the tarp route, well it's just something I have to deal with and I don't stress about.. Actually for some crazy reason enjoy the challange weather can provide tarpin. Winter in my back yard can bring 55 inches of rain in a season along with high winds.. The perfect chance to practice Tarp "set-ups"!  Tarpin is definatly not for everyone, thats forsure.. But I love it!!
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an
attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
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Campfire Ranger
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The vampire mosquitos would have eaten me alive if I had been using a single wall tent without a floor. I'm not familiar with the intensity of flying insects in Georgia. But don't think for one minute that there are no mosquitos in the Rockies.
Very valid point. I was eaten alive just day tripping it up to the alpine yesterday. Didn't realize how bad the skeeters got me till I woke up this morning.
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I am in the middle of the road on the tent tarp thing. Bugs are the only thing that keeps me from going to just a tarp and a sleeping bag. So for trips with more than myself I use the GoLite SL5 with a MLD duomid bug tent(though the pyramid net tent from Bearpaw tents is MUCH cheaper and an oz lighter and wish I would have gone that route now) at 3.1 pounds its a good compromise. ![[Linked Image]](http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x8/alaska_lanche/SANY0764.jpg) If going solo I now use a MLD trailstar combined with a TI goat ptarmigan bivy. At 25 oz all up combined with Trailstar, guylines, stakes, and bivy its a pretty awesome setup for only 1.5 pounds. For winter use I dig the extra protection and warmth of a true double wall tent. Though since I really only use my Hilleberg in the dark colder winter months I am considering trading out the Nallo GT 3 for a Jannu.
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![[Linked Image]](http://i29.tinypic.com/2q0nc51.jpg) In Georgia, with your mild climate, lots of poisonous snakes, insects, and rainy weather; I would definitely go the hammock/tarp bugnet setup like I use. These are WAY more comfortable then any on the ground setup. I am a gear junkie and have everything from a floorless UL pyramid tipi shelter and DIY cylinder stove, UL tents, and even a 14 man tipi, but if I don't need a wood burner, the hammock setup wins hand down. It is just too comfy, you sleep like a baby in them, and you can pitch them on rocky, uneven ground, even in standing water if you wish. Georgia has tons of trees, so you are set. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4247042/1
Last edited by HardCoreHunter; 08/01/10.
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I'm not familiar with the intensity of flying insects in Georgia. But don't think for one minute that there are no mosquitos in the Rockies.
KC
You have to eat a big dinner so the first half the night your too full to worry about the mosquitoes and the second half the night the mosquitoes are too full to worry about you!! HA! HA!
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I'm not familiar with the intensity of flying insects in Georgia. But don't think for one minute that there are no mosquitos in the Rockies.
KC
You have to eat a big dinner so the first half the night your too full to worry about the mosquitoes and the second half the night the mosquitoes are too full to worry about you!! HA! HA! Amen! I lived near Augusta years ago. Copperheads, rattlers, black Widows, and skeeters. No way would I be sleeping in a floorless tent or a tarp in Georgia, Florida, or any of those wet, humid, southern states. And, if the area got an inch of snow, they closed the entire cities down, people didn't know how to drive on snow.
Last edited by HardCoreHunter; 08/01/10.
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I use either tarp or tent, depending on expected conditions. I really like tarp camping, not just for the weight savings, but the air- and I'm a little too fond of my comforts- I can get up easier when I should in the morning under a tarp than a tent when hunting. Part of it is the light... and if a bear comes visiting, I'll at least be able to see his feet.... Also- at about $10 a tarp, I can economically pre-establish multiple camps over a couple square miles in my moose hunting area. Then all I have to do is move my bag, etc to a new dry location if wanted, quietly and effectively. Probably no diff 'tween the two if a moose rakes his antlers 15' from the sleeping bag during the night, tent or tarp, as has happened ... Wakes you right up, either way! I'll go with a good tent in buggy times anytime, and even a single wall tent with fly will add 10-15 degrees in sleeping comfort in cold weather.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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I used to go the tent route but have converted to tarps because I get so much more space for the same or less weight. I've also ditched the pack bag on my frame pack and use my ground cloth / emergency 6x9 to strap my gear to the frame of my cache hauler similar to the way you'd pack a Moonbow Gearskin A 12x16 tarp pitched like this gives me an 8ft peak with about an 8x10 floor. Perfect for me and all my gear. I'm adding a breakdown stove this year similar to the tigoat cylinder but DIY. I'll have a photo essay about it in a couple of weeks. ![[Linked Image]](https://lh6.ggpht.com/_zk4KBU-riBQ/SvERmdBbQLI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/U-SejzX7cS0/s720/Colorado%20Elk%20Hunt%2010-2009%20%283%29.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://lh5.ggpht.com/_zk4KBU-riBQ/SvERmip1IHI/AAAAAAAAAKE/wNd8bh0ZEvk/s720/Colorado%20Elk%20Hunt%2010-2009%20%285%29.jpg)
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