Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Sell Me on the 45 ACP

Hello from a new poster,

I've been thinking I need a new hand gun (doesn't everyone?). Still haven't decided on a 1911, Beretta or Glock.

What I really want to know is why the 45 ACP? I mean on paper by ballistics it doesn't look so hot, and yet there is such a loyal fan base.

I want it for self defense CCW and even a woods gun, for possible Mtn lion and Black Bear.

What do you think? And why the 45 ACP?

Chris

Big slow moving hole punching caliber with lots of real world experience. Pretty good choice for a man stopper and or prolly mt. lion, for bear I'm thinking a 10 mm might be a better choice in an auto. But even against a bear 7-13 rounds of .45 placed by a cool hand is way above a pocket full of rocks.

Go to a spiritualist and/or medium. Get him/her to put you in contact with the spirits of several thousand dead Germans, more Germans, Japanese, North Koreans, Chinese, Viet Cong, NVA regulars and by now I guess a few Afghans and Iraqis, plus several more thousand various and sundry others in isolated places all over the globe in the last 94 years.

Ask them about the .45 ACP in standard FMJ roundnose form, then extrapolate that to a hollow point.

A bit morbid reply, perhaps, but hopefully makes the point.

I don't think that 45 acp is very good for Black bear. Though I am sure that there is someone who will disagree. I think that you should use 44mag if there is the possiblity of encountering black bear.

Conrad

Why the 45acp?

Well, the velocity is not the part of the equasion that makes this a great round. The bullet weight and diameter of the projectile play into the 45acp's stopping power. The bullet weight has alot to do with energy transferred that results in stopping power. V ery few experts will doubt the stopping power of the 45acp.

The 45acp is also launched from a great platform - the 1911 pistol. This pistol is simple, reliable and accurate and can be modified in many different ways to suit your shooting needs. The Glock and Berettas are limited in how one can "tune" them or change thier shootability.

The trigger on the M1911 is better than on any d/a Beretta or Glock and is infinitely adjustable as well, adding to the 1911/45acp's popularity.

Out of a full-sized pistol, the 45acp is a pleasant shooter. The recoil is more of a push, than the snappiness of some of the 9mms and 40s. A full size 1911 is much more pleasurable to shoot than most 9mm or 40SW compacts.

Then, theres the history of service the 45acp round has going for it. The US Army used it for two world wars, Korea, Vietnam and even after the 1911 was replaced oficially by the Beretta, several 1911s found their ways to Desert Storm, Bosina, Afghanistan and currently in Iraq. The 45acp/1911 has been carried by several famous lawmen and professional law enforcement agencies like the Texas Rangers. LAPD SWAT team members carry the 45/1911 as do several Special Forces members in units like Delta Force, Rangers and the FBI Hostage Rescue Team in Quantico, even though more modern pistols like Berettas, Sigs and Glocks are available.

The pistol and caliber simply work...and they work well. I own two 1911s in 45acp, have shot them for ten-plus years and would trust either to the ends of the earth.

If that short bit of history does not sell you on the 45acp round, I don't know what will.

-Brickboy240

Chris,

You're looking for two guns, not one. The 45 ACP is without question one of, if not the, premier defensive handgun rounds. For CCW/personal/home defense, a 45 ACP is always an excellent choice.

For hunting, you need to look elsewhere. Not only are autos generally less accurate at field/hunting ranges than revolvers, you just need more punch for Mtn. Lion, Bear, and even deer past 35-50 yards. Look, as Conrad suggested, at the .44 Mag, the .41 Mag, or a .454 Casull/.45 Colt. If it bites back, you don't want it to, and these will put a serious crimp in the chomping plans of any toothy-nasty in the lower-48.

The next questions are, how much experience do you have with handguns? And, please define the intended defensive and field uses of your guns (yes, plural)? Is the defensive pistol to be primarily a house gun, or a CCW? Is the field gun to be a hunter, or a pack/hiking/back-up?

Aside from caliber, I think it's important to choose a pistol that you'll actually carry. A pistol that's too bulky or heavy will soon be left at home or in the truck, where it does you little good.

Choose a pistol in a caliber that you can shoot well. Stuff it full of good quality ammo utilizing one of today's controlled expansion hollowpoints, and go about your business.

Chris57k.

Welcome to the Campfire. The BIG decision is which handgun; the cartridge is waaay down the list. The handgun you pick will dictate the chambering to a large degree. A smaller and lighter design will often perform best with a smaller and lighter cartridge.

In addition to the benefits already mentioned, the .45 ACP is low-pressure and generally subsonic. That translates into being easy on the handgun, easy on recoil, and easy on your nervous system if you ever have to touch one off indoors. Some folks talk about �auditory exclusion�, referring to the theory of hearing (and other senses) ignoring sensory overload in a time of excitement or panic. I fired a .357 Mag indoors once just to say I did, and I was near deaf and blind long enough to have serious doubts in the theory.

I ain�t saying the .45 ACP is quiet indoors, but it doesn�t induce a feeling that my nutz are gonna fall off.

Yep (and I'm getting use to this) GW and JOG have pointed out the error of my response.

It's not the "next" questions, but the first questions are: how much experience do you have with handguns? And, please define the intended defensive and field uses of your guns (yes, plural)? Is the defensive pistol to be primarily a house gun, or a CCW? Is the field gun to be a hunter, or a pack/hiking/back-up?

Fill us in on these, and a wealth of knowledge is sure to follow.

Now in person, I'd remove a foot from my mouth...what is it electronically, a keyboard from my mouth...

More Info,

1. I feel fairly experienced and have been carrying CCW for a few years. Most exp is with revolvers. I'm getting lazy about cleaning all 6 cylinders, and the couple autos I have sure clean fast and easy.

2. The basic use would be defensive, but would like to become proficient enough to provide survival (rabbit, grouse or larger) food for the pot, if neccesary.

3. I'm a bowhunter, so yes, pack/hike/backup.

I'm aware of the history and popularity of the 45 ACP, but is there any factual data? Have more been stopped or killed because of the large numbers of 45 out there?

As far as pistol choice, because I live in northern CO (at 7000 ft and up) with a lot of cold I thought the Glock might be good. According to thier hype. I do however really like to see and use a hammer.

I know most 1911 users advocate cocked and locked. Would it be totally wrong to keep one in the chamber, hammer half cocked, and pull hammer back when ready to fire?

One more obstical, I'm a lefty.

The .45 ACP works for a number of reasons. It's a low pressure round that is easy on the equipment and the shooter. Brass is cheap and easy to come by. It's easy to work up good reloads that are accurate and cost effective. The .45 just plain works on the target range, for self defense and for some limited range hunting.

It makes a great back up during hunting season too.

the 1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked. If this makes you uncomfortable then go with the glock. Carrying the 1911 at half cock defeats the design.

Good Luck

On most 1911s its awkward to let the hammer down or to cock it because of the grip safety. Safer to carry it cocked and locked than to lower the hammer over a loaded chamber every time.

Don't worry about being a lefty. Plenty of 1911s out there with ambi safeties.

Chris,

Ditto what Rdinak said about cocked and locked - a conventional 1911 is designed be carried that way. There's a much better chance of an AD fiddlin' with the hammer.

However, you don't have to buy a Glock just yet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> - designs such as the Para Ordinance LDA series of 1911's are double action. I don't own one yet, but I have a few hundred rounds through loaners - they are slick.

FWIW:

Jeff Cooper is the Primary Advocate (among Many, Many, Experienced advocates) of the 1911 and 45 ACP. The purpose of a defensive weapon is to stop fights.

Jeff has fought the fights, conducted the research, and trained the warriors for 50 years now. His research indicates about 99.9% one shot stops with the 45 ACP, assuming good shot placement. The 9mm stops about half half as many with one shot and good shot placement.

From a factual standpoint, the case for the 45 ACP has been closed for two or three decades--it flat works for its intended purpose.

Much like the 98 mauser chambered for 30-06, the 1911 in 45 ACP works every time, decade after decade.

There are very few combinations that are so thoroughly proven under adverse conditions.

BMT

Okay, given your answers to the earlier questions - get the 1911 in .45 ACP. It'll do everything you want and it'll do it well. Yeah, Glocks have a lot of hype, and most of it can be backed-up, but the 1911 is a legend for a reason. If it worked at the Chosin Reservoir, the jungles of SE Asia, and the deserts of Africa, the Middle East and central Asia (and it did), it'll work in northern Colorado. Besides, you just "need" a 1911...

Now, the next decision is what model (full-size, commander, officers, etc.) and what make. My choice: no smaller than a commander, and probably a full-size since you say you've already got a CCW and revolvers to carry concealed (S&W snub?). Also, since you're looking for something that will go in the field with you, a stainless model might be in order.

Try a few of the reputable different makes out, and go with what feels good to you. If you ask, you can/will probably get a whole list of opinions on which maker is better than others, but any of the "better" makers are going to have a model or two that will satisfy your needs quite well. After that, as with your bow, your revolvers, and your truck, it's all just personal preference.

I think it's important to separate the .45 ACP from the 1911 for these types of discussions. The cartridge is a winner, but a cocked & locked, single-action 1911 ain't for everybody.

It�s not necessarily a matter of training and there�s no condescending tone in my voice � some folks just do not become comfortable with cock & locked, just as some folks refuse to carry a revolver with a round under the hammer.

Personally, Glocks with 3-lb triggers and no active safeties give me the willies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I'll slide in here, most has been covered by the others. I need to reiterate one thing though, Glock has a lot of hype and a short history, the 1911 platform has mucho history that simply does not need hype. ANY quality 1911, Colt or clone will deliver reliability and "combat accuracy" with very little tweaking. they will deliver target grade accuracy (some of the newer clones like Kimber and the Springfied loaded series) will do it right out of the box. BUT, you must be comfortable with Cocked and Locked, it is the ONLY way to carry it for instant use. I have killed a small blackie (300lbs) with one many moons ago with one COM hit (she stood up and I shot) I believe a .44 mag would be better for bear though IMHO. Cats are FAST and at 50 yards or under you ain't gonna get a shot off unless you are already aiming at it with the safety off, and then it will be 99% luck if you win!

Boils down to what YOU are comfortable with and will carry, me, in bear country it is a S&W custom 5" round butt 29 .44 maggie. Any other time it is the Colt series 70 or a pre 70 Commander. YMMV. Good luck and good shooting.

Thanks for all the great input! I'm pretty much sold on the 1911 and I do appreciate the advise against half vs cocked and locked. And yeah VAnimrod, its a model 19 snub in 357 and suprisingly enough I can hit a small target out to 50 yds in SA mode. The 19 is heavy son of a gun, and I was hoping for something lighter. Thats one reason for the Glock, especially the 10 shot compact, although I wonder how controllable it would be. As far as short barrels I'm pretty comfortable.

While I was out this afternoon I bought a new Guns & Ammo mag "Book of the 1911".

Any more advise is sure welcome! Thanks again!

Not sure what your 19 weighs, but I'll bet you'll have a hard time finding a .45ACP that weighs much less. Even a Glock 36 will push 30oz when loaded with 7 rounds....

If you have your heart set on a semi-auto for these tasks, you'd better make it a 10mm, and get yourself some damn hot loads, with really good bullets if you're going to hunt black bear with it. Better yet, buy a Desert Eagle. Most people I know use revolvers for woods guns, usually in .44 mag, or hot loaded 45 Colts, especially if bear is on the agenda. When you buy a gun, buy one suitable to the most difficult task you can possibly imagine you will face. Trying to pick one that goes right down the middle of your needs can be dangerous, it will likely be too powerful for your lighter needs, and not powerful enough for heavy work. Mediocrity in action.

Bob