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#4449527 - 09/26/10 .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout  
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Curtis1911 Offline
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Ok guys, I am not a long range hunter (most of the game I've shot has been inside 350 yards), but do an extensive amount of long range metallic target shooting. These days you don't hear much about the old .270 win cartridge as a long range caliber for long range hunting for deer & pronghorn size game. Why is this? Here are some figures for the most typical loads in each caliber limited to a distance of 500 yards. This is taken from Hornady's ballistics calculator after inputting the data.

.270 Win - 130 gr Hornady SST @ 3100 fps - 200 yard sight in
.460 BC, SD .242
Trajectory - 300 yds (-6.1"), 400 yds (-17.8"), 500 yds (-36.0")
Wind Drift 10 mph - 300 yds (5.8"), 400 yds (10.7"), 500 yds (17.4")

6.5-284 Norma - 140 gr Berger VLD @2850 fps - 200 yrd sight in
.612 BC, SD apprx .287
Trajectory - 300 yds (-6.9"), 400 yds (-19.8"), 500 yds (-39.5")
Wind Drift 10 mph - 300 yds (4.7"), 400 yds (8.7"), 500 yds (14.0")

Of course, there are other factors that aren't considered here, but the old .270 seems to be a pretty decent contender. It's very flat shooting, good BC, high sectional density, tolerable recoil, readily available, etc. The 6.5-284 is also an amazing cartridge for many reasons (high BC, low wind drift, high SD for lots of penetration, etc). But out to 500 yards, these two seem pretty close in a lot of areas. I suppose the 6.5 may start to really shine beyond that distance, but am not sure.

In the end, my question is - why isn't the old .270 win talked about more in long range shooting discussions - Any thoughts? confused


Last edited by Curtis1911; 09/26/10.
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#4449549 - 09/26/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootoff [Re: Curtis1911]  
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jwp475 Offline
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Yea, the bullets for 270 do not have as high of BC as do the 6mms, 6.5's. 7mms, 30 cal, 338's

Long range begins at/or past 600 yards, the BC of .612 for the 6.5 will really start to walk away from the .462 BC of the 270 as the distance increases



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#4449591 - 09/26/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootoff [Re: Curtis1911]  
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Curtis..comparing the tried and true 270 to other calibers has been an ongoing topic for many moons.I have never owned one personally but one of my long time hunting buddies was a 270 fanatic! His 270 was the reason I built my 264 Mag just to prove that there was something out there much better..how much better?.. probably not much at average shooting ranges.We killed alot of deer and goats together over the years and at ranges out 350-400 yds he did just as well as I did with a much lighter gun and shorter barrel.IMO the 6.5's do have the edge but only at extreme ranges because of BC/SD .I think another reason is most everyone knows the 270 as a legend and just want something different..at least I did.....FLEM


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#4449592 - 09/26/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootoff [Re: jwp475]  
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Curtis1911 Offline
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So inside 500 or 600 yards, there isn't as much of a difference, but when you go beyond 600 yards, the 6.5mm bullets really have an advantage in a lot of ways. 600 yards is quite a long distance, so for most hunters, it seems that a .277 bullet would be adequate along with the 6.5mm bullets.

I guess my 500 yard minimum really isn't "long range" these days. It's not until you get out to 1000 yards that you are really shooting "long range."

#4450366 - 09/26/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Curtis1911]  
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aalf Offline
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As said, long range begins around 600. Hell, for all practical purposes, a flat base runs neck and neck with a boatail out to 400 or so. The bigger BC's take charge after that. Run your charts to 1K and compare again.

#4450569 - 09/26/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: aalf]  
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Curtis1911 Offline
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aalf - your right, I used a conservative number. According to Nosler's 6th Edition reloading manual, the fastest they have a 140 gr bullet going is 2953 from a 26" barrel. So I'm about 100 fps slower in my comparison chart. With 2953 fps, I'm sure the performance with the 6.5 would be that much better.

The main differences I'm seeing is the wind drift at extremely long ranges. The 6.5 certainly has the distinct edge on the .270 but the trajectory between the two is almost the same. Here are the numbers at 1000 yards using the data I initially used above.

.270 Win @ 1000 yards
drop -274.2"
wind drift (10mph) 86.3"
557 ft lb energy

6.5-284 @ 1000 yard
drop -273.6"
wind drift (10mph) 66.3"
752 ft lb energy

I'm not trying to suggest the .270 win is "better" than the 6.5-284 - it's not. I'm just trying to compare the two based on factual numbers to see where the real advantages are. I intend on bulding a 6.5-284 (or .264 win mag) in the near future. Nonetheless, the old .270 win, seems to be quite good out to fairly long distances.

Last edited by Curtis1911; 09/26/10.
#4450627 - 09/26/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Curtis1911]  
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keith Offline
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Curtis,when you shoot the barrel out of the 270, go to the 280. The std 162g HOrnady a Max has a bc of about .650.

Use the same brass, anneal it and neck it up.

I shot the 160's at 2900-2950 out of my 280, std nosler accuracy load.


#4453092 - 09/27/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Curtis1911]  
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roninflag Offline
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i have shot the 139 scenar around 3080 out of my 6.5-284. your question is a good one though. you should ask on longrangehunting.com . i shoot a lot of F-class matches and have never shot against a .270 that i know of. i would like to though. roninflag

#4454286 - 09/27/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: roninflag]  
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BobinNH Offline
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JMHO but it seems to me that over the years,6mm, 6.5 and 7mm have gotten the bullet development attention for target work that the 270 has not.Also 6.5 and 7mm(.284 that is; the 270 Winchester IS a true 7mm) have traditionally been built and offered with longer bullets and faster twists to accomodate the heavier bullets for which they are noted.It would do no good for a manufacturer to build a 270 bullet with a BC over .600 if no one has the barrels to shoot it.

Given the military pedigree of the 6.5 and 7mm bore sizes,and the use of long heavy bullets, faster twists were standard in those bore sizes;the 270, OTOH,was conceieved solely as a hunting cartridge,and with the bullets of the day,its' 10 twist was fine.I personally think anyone building a 270 today would be well served building it with a faster twist.

Since it sits squarely in the middle between 6.5 and 7mm,(and we know those two calibers are very good) I see no reason why someone who put their mind to it, could not build a 270 bullet of great accuracy and high enough BC to at least stay in the ball park past 600 yards.

I think the cartridge is capable;it's likely more the bullets, barrels, and shooters attitudes that hold it back in the LR endeavors,far as I can tell.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
#4454308 - 09/27/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: BobinNH]  
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Dan Lilja managed to use the [bleep] out of the .270 and lowly 150gr ballistic tip for longe range hunting,before the practice became all of the rage it is today..

The .270 has never really been considered by the longe range benchrest shooters.For decades .30 cal was required by regulation and when that was amended,shooters moved right into the 7mm and 6.5mm.one of the founding fathers of the 6.5x.284 still competes nationally.The .270 has never had much following outside of hunting and america for that matter.

#4454352 - 09/28/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Bauer]  
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Seafire Offline
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a fairer comparison for 6.5 mm vs 270 bore would be the 120 grain and 123 grain Match bullets in 6.5 when comparing a `30 in 270 caliber..

if I wanted a long range caliber, I think I'd look at the 6.5 x 280 Improved...

however just the old plain 280 case would probably be fine..


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#4454464 - 09/28/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Bauer]  
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BobinNH Offline
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Originally Posted by Bauer
......The .270 has never had much following outside of hunting and america for that matter.


Targets, true enough....as a hunting cartridge I believe it is widely used in other countries or continents, Africa for instance.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
#4455948 - 09/28/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: BobinNH]  
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Curtis1911 Offline
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BobinNH, very good response. I hadn't thought about some of those issues you mentioned. It makes sense. Thanks for the post. I've just always wondered why the .277 bullets aren't used or talked about much. Now I've got a better perspective.

I think the best thing to do would be to have one of each calibers and use them both . . .

#4456378 - 09/28/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Curtis1911]  
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BobinNH Offline
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Curtis it's all speculation on my part.... smile

The 270 just started life as a hunting cartridge and it appears that is the way it will stay, I guess.....(?)

But,there is this......

"........When testing bullets in the new case(6.8SPC),it became obvious that while those of 6.5mm were a bit more accurate than 7mm bullets, the latter did more damage to targets at 500 meters and beyond.Then its' developers discovered that 270 bullets shot about as flat and with about as much accuracy as 6.5 bullets and delivered about as much downrange punch as 7mm bullets...."

November/December Rifle Shooter article by Layne Simpson reporting on the development of the 6.8 SPC Project headed up by Master Sargeant Steve Holland of the 5th Special Forces Group, Chris Murray of the US Army Marksmanship Unit,and Chief Ballstic Technician Troy Lawton.......

Mmmmm.......... cool confused

Might be goring some sacred cows here.......

Last edited by BobinNH; 09/29/10.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
#4470866 - 10/03/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: BobinNH]  
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I left LE for 7 months 6/05-1/06 to work for BFMI. That November my oldest son shot two whitetail bucks with a 12.5-in. Barrett M468 at under 60 yards using the initial slow run of Remington 115-gr. OTM. Not 500 meters, but those bucks died quickly and had tissue damage similar to whitetail I've killed with .270 Winchester 130s at less than 100 yards.

5.56mm is fine, but 6.8mm is final. My inner loony lusts for a 6.5-284, but a .270 will kill anything that needs shooting in Tennessee.


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#4471276 - 10/03/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: ColdCase1984]  
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Originally Posted by ColdCase1984
5.56mm is fine, but 6.8mm is final.


Thats funny right there.

#4471856 - 10/04/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Higbean]  
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go on down to 100-110 gn bullet in that 270 if you really want to what it will do at long range. 270 is a great long range caliber.

#4471883 - 10/04/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: srwshooter]  
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What do you call long range?



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#4472091 - 10/04/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: srwshooter]  
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Originally Posted by srwshooter
go on down to 100-110 gn bullet in that 270 if you really want to what it will do at long range. 270 is a great long range caliber.


You MV will certainly be higher but the lightweight, low BC bullet will shed velocity fast.

Personally, I would never use a 100-110 grain bullet for LR hunting or shooting.


Ernie "The Un-Tactical"

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#4472098 - 10/04/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: xphunter]  
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+1, Ernie



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#4474482 - 10/04/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: jwp475]  
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Lighter bullets may fly flatter for a ways, but once you start getting past 500 yds. they are not the ticket. I know this from experience. My buddy had a Lazzeroni Scramjet built up that shot a 100 grn bullet at 3800 fps. It was great out to 500 yds. but then the wind ate it up. I built up a 270 WSM shooting 140 grn. Accubonds at 3200 fps and was pretty good out to 600 yds. Now I have a 6.5-284 shooting 140 grn. Bergers and a 338 Edge shooting 3000 grn Bergers. Neither of these shoot over 2900 fps. But hits out to 1000 yds. and a little beyond are becoming routine. If you shoot where the wind never blows, you are ok shooting light and fast. But if the wind blows at all, you are better off with higher BC. The 270 is my favorite caliber, but until someone starts building higher BC bullets, it won't be my go to caliber for long range.

#4483568 - 10/07/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: jumpalot2]  
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I've been using 135 gr. Match Kings in my .270 this year for marmots. My shooting has all been over 12,000' elevation. I shot 7 'hogs this year at ranges from 600 to 749 yards. Next year I expect little trouble breaking the 800 yard mark. I'm not sure how far I can push this, but I'll keep trying to extend my range until shots become more a matter of luck that skill. I was out the other day and fired a couple groups using 130 gr. TSX's getting ready for elk next week. These are shooting nice little .5" three shot groups at 100 yds off the bench. I love getting this kind of accuracy from an 8 lb. hunting rifle. The BC of the MK's is published at .488, the TSX at .431. I used to shoot a .243 pushing 58 gr. v'max's at 3700 fps, but they were easily blown around in a breeze, and past 500 yard they were getting tough to hit with reliably. No such problem this year with the 27.

#4645045 - 11/29/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: cobrad]  
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Pronghorn hunt with a buddy last August in N.E. New Mexico. Two killed at slightly under 400 yds. I was shooting a 6.5-284 with 140 gr. SST's at 2,950 fps, he a Model 700 Sendaro in .270, 130 gr. factory ammo. Not much difference. Very similar performance. Both antelope DRT. But, they're that not hard to kill, just got to hit them.

Dirtfarmer

#4645282 - 11/29/10 Re: .270 Win vs. 6.5-284 shootout [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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Try a 150 berger at 2950 vs a 140 berger at 2950 there is not that much difference. .531 vs .612 BC with the advantage to the 6.5. I have shot the 150 berger out to 1k in the 270 and it does pretty well.

BTW I was never able to get 2950 out of any 6.5x284 I have ever owned while using 140 bergers and lapua brass. I have only owned 3 and now only own one but that is just my experiance maybe being at 200 feet above salt water has something to do with it.

Last edited by EddyBo; 11/29/10.
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