Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 6.5-284 Norma loads for long range.

hey guys, wanna hook me up with some load data?

i will be using Lapua brass and Redding type S bushing comp dies. these are the only components i have settled on. i want to use Berger VLD bullets (140 grain) and Sierra Match Kings in 140 or 142 grain.

i will probably use a 1-8" twist barrel.

whatchya go fer me?

50 grains of RL 17.

Yup on the 8 twist and skip the 140 Sierra's. Let your gun decide on the other two.

Just buy a load of H-4831-SC, same lot, and don't fritter away your barrel looking for the holy grail.

I know one guy loading for this cartridge, and he has been very happy with the max load for 140gr bullets and MRP-2 (for more than 2900fps) found on Norma's Reloading Page

I post a link so I do not have to worry about typing!

John

56g H1000 with 140g Berger VLD for 2950 fps or so was the ticket when I had my 6.5x284 barrel. Max for me with H1000 was 58g.

yep

Curious to hear more about this load?

Bullet, velocity, accuracy, etc..

LD,

Longrange target shooting or hunting? For hunting I'd stick with the Bergers (if you can find them). Are you using a short or long action?

One of my favorite loads in my LA REM700 is 51.0 gr of RL17 (MAX in my rifle) with the Bergers seated out to a COAL of 3.18".
I have had 1/2 MOA accuracy with this load jumping the bullet .020"-.030". Velocity averages 3030-3050 fps out of my 24" Douglas barrel (1-8" twist).

I've also gotten similar results with accuracy and velocity with 61.0 gr of MAGPRO (also MAX in my rifle).

If you are looking for a longrange deer/antelope hunting load be sure to check out the 120gr Ballistic Tips. Not quite as high B.C. but they shoot LIGHTS-OUT in my rifle (1/4 MOA).

Whatever you choose have fun and be prepared to spend a lot of money on reloading components b/c there are a ton of choices and the cartridge is a joy to load for and shoot.

I am building on a long action and it will be for shooting steel and hunting. The plan is to shoot the Berger 140 hunting bullet.

4135sc and RL 17 was the only powders I was going to try. I have read some reports of up to 200fps gain with the RL17?

i use a whole lot of mrp-2 and either a 123 or 139 scenar or a 130 norma. all for target. for game i use a 120 balistic tip

I have a custom 6.5-284, Pre-64 M-70, Jewell trigger, blueprinted with Bordens bumps and a 26" Kreiger heavy 8.5 twist sporter bbl in Boyd's, Jon Sundra laminated stock, glassed, free floated and pillar bedded. My best accuracy with 140 gr. SST's and 52.3 gr. Vv 165, is a .174" three shot group at 100 yds. Shot a .200" 3 shot group with 140 gr. Berger VLD's, .050 jump, same powder charge.

Tried RL-17 for the advertised extra velocity. Best accuracy/velocity combo was 48.8 gr, which consistently chrono'ed over 3,000 with 1/2" groups and good SD's. Over 49 gr., groups opened up and at 49.5, was shooting 1 1/2". The Vv 165 load chrono's at 2,950, so the RL-17 doesn't give me a 200 fps premium, only 50-75 fps and 1/2" groups, no teens or twos. Probably stick with Vv 165.

SST's devastating on Pronghorns and Whitetails. No report on Bergers, yet.

Dirtfarmer

Don't automatically assume that you will be shooting that bullet unless you have at least a #7 contour barrel. You may have to try some other bullets. Having shot thousands of rounds in 1000 yd competition with that caliber, I have had occasion to try lots of stuff. I quit shooting it before some of the boutique powders and bullets were out but last year built another.

I have equally good luck with 140 Amax, 140 Berger and 142 Sierra in competition. Now I use 130 Norma Diamond Line and 108 Lapua Scenars. If I were to hunt elk with it, I would use something else. I like R17 and H4831. I also like H4350 with the 108s. They make a great 700 yd coyote round!

I have a few boxes of 130 and 140 Accubonds but have yet to shoot them. Might be the better bullets for elk. I had a hunter shoot a very large bodied bull elk last week with a 7mm Rem Mag and a 140 or 150 Accubond and it did real well. I suspect the 140 Accubond out of the 6.5 would fair equally well.

I prefer the 8.5 twist to the 8" twist as I can usually get at least a 50 fps higher "sweet spot" with the slower twist- sometimes 100 fps. For hunting, this is nice. An 8.5 twist will stabilize every bullet I have ever tried. Some I haven't tried are the 147 Cautarucios and 160 Akers.

Dennisinaz,

Appreciate your info. I'm now working on Berger 140's for hunting. I did the Berger suggestion on optimal jump,
shooting three shot groups at .01, .05, .09, and .13 jump. Seemed that I had my best groups at .05, and .13. I decided to do a "jump ladder" from the idea of a powder progression ladder, looking for clusters. Problem, you have to account for each bullet for it to work. I shot at 200 yds, hoping for more spread to make it easier to tell what was going on. I loaded from .01 to .18 in .01 increments all with my best Vv 165 load. Many were hitting so close, the 80X spotting scope couldn't differentiate. Made a bunch of 4 wheeler trips to the target. Bottom line, had two clusters, around .05 and around .13. Currious as to why two clusters and which one to use. At least the data appears reproduceable.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Dirtfarmer

Does anybody else find it amazing what a disparity there is in the load data for this cartridge??

It doesn't seem like the case capacity difference between the 6.5-284 Win (short throat) and Norma would make such a big difference... take for instance the Nosler 130 info vs. the Hodgdon 129 gr info for IMR-4350; 50 gr max for the former, 45.9 gr max for the latter. And the NAB used in the former info is typically "stickier" than the 129 gr Interlock used in the latter... weird.

In looking over the Hodgdon data Hybrid 100V caught my eye as being a constistent top performer in the cartridge, yet I see no no mention of it anywhere. Is this another anomoly that can be chalked up to the difference between the Win & Norma iterations of the cartridge?

I'm with dennis... that 107 gr SMK at a high rate of speed seems to me like an insanely awesome 'yote killer!

I'm working something up for 129 gr SSTs. My Savage 112 BVSS has a long action and "Norma" throat. I've got H4831SC & RL-17 & intend to purchase (due to the preferences of other rifles) some IMR-4350 & RL-19... anyone have any suggestions? Anyone have numbers for 129s/130s and RL-17?

Also, has anyone tried Ramshot Magnum in this cartridge at all?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Great discussion all! Merry Christmas!

Are you getting cratered primers. Mine were cratering before 2900 fps. Can't imagine what they look like at 3000 fps. Norma brass shooting 142 SMK. 12F Savage 8x32 NF

I've had 8 and 8 1/2's and haven't seen a velocity advantage with the slower. My go to load was H-4831-SC at 3060 with the 142's in 30" tubes. Primer pockets still holding after a dozen firings. 140 VLD's seem to prefer 3 grains less at 2950 or so. All moly, all hard in the lands.

Do you gentlemen use magnum primers? I've noticed that a lot of load info is... I thought that was weird for non-ball powder loads in an '06-sized case?

210's, regular or match

Oh... 210 M is Match not Magnum!

Thanks for that clarification...

mine loaded with the match grade. Savage must have a sloppy firing pin to crater like that at lower speeds than other models. Anyway I live with craters and leave them cruise around 2900fps -142 smk. Very accurate round. We were shooting pop cans at 425 yds straight out the box with this rifle. They won't go through a 1/4 inch steel plate. The bullets blow up on contact.

Yep they're known to need corrective action taken on their firing pin holes... I forget what the procedure is known as... my model 14 325 Wizzum needs it too...

I sure have and I will go so far as to say I see even more improvement in 1-9 twist but some barrels don't really stabilize the bullets good enough to use them at lower elevations.

I can shoot great groups at the range in prescott, AZ (5500') but they don't shoot worth a hoot at the range in Mesa (1400') I guess they are on the ragged edge of stability.

I competition, we used to find the best accuracy at around 2900 fps. When I switched to 8.5" twist I could go as fast at 2970 with good results (28" barrel) never shot a 9" twist in a match but with a shorter barrel, I can push them just about 25 fps faster.

I prefer 130s for the vast majority of my shooting, I feel like the added velocity pays off at the 600 and under shots that I mostly take. I am a big fan of the 130 Norma Diamond Line.

i use 1 in 8.5 twist barrels. the loads out of the norma manual 58.7 mrp-2 and a 130; or 56.4 and a 139 are awesome long range loads. over 3100 for both out of mine krieger.

378Canuck,

Slow getting back to you. Been hunting. Those loads work great in my Pre-64 M-70 with Krieger SS Match, 8.5 twist Bbl. The Vv 165 load of 52.3 seems a bit hot with Berger 140's. No primer problems, just shiney marks on the case head and slight resistance opening the bolt. Subtle, not blatent signs. Perfect performance 52.3 gr. Vv 165 with SST 140's, which has been my stand by load.

Over 48.8 gr. RL-17, groups opened up with SST's. Haven't yet tried the Bergers with RL-17. If one was wanting to push 140's at or slightly above 3,000 fps, I think RL-17 would be the way to go. I don't know of any other powder that can do that.

I see people using lighter bullets, and I may try some. I had chosen the 140's for their retained energy at extended range. Performance was so good, I haven't tried other weights, as this gun is mainly used for Whitetails and Pronghorns, with the occasional 'yote or hog.

DF

IMR4350 will do 3000 fps but this powder is not as temp stabilized as the ones you mentionned.

I failed to mention that my gun has a 26" bbl. and is a hunting sporter. Will IMR4350 push a 140 gr. bullet at a consistent 3,000 fps without using a 30" target barrel?

DF

Can't speak for the shorter barrels because mine is also 30 inch.
Don't know how much diff 4 inch would make. it would be interesting to try the same reloads and crony the difference.

Nephew was hitting pop cans at 460 yds about 75% the time with my rig last fall and he's just turned 14. I find this round very accurate.

From what I've read, experienced and chrono'ed, sustained 3,000+ fps performance w/o pressure in a sporter type 6.5-284 with 26" bbl and 140 gr. bullets is pretty much RL-17's exclusive territory.

DF

Accuracy first, speed's secondary......

Nice to have both. The RL-17 loads in my 26" 6.5-284 sporter weren't the most accurate, but still at 1/2" and shot a consistent 3,000 fps even with the S.D.'s which were pretty tight. At no time did I chrono less than 3,000 fps at 48.8 gr. Over that amount, groups started opening up and at around 50 gr. they were 1 1/2" with early pressure signs in a gun that has shot groups in the teens and twos. For hunting, RL-17 would be OK. For target work, I'd stick to 52.3 gr. Vv 165 at 2,950 fps. That's where the teens and twos come from with 140 SST's and 140 Berger VLD's.

DF

My game is 1000 yard Benchrest, but I've also had 4 or 5 700's and an XP-100 built, just for pleasure. For a little background, I won the 1K three gun championship six years in a row in Pella, Ia, so I'm more than a internet jockey.

While I've tried 17 in 2 or 3 other calibers, I found it didn't give any appreciable velocity gains, and was too inconsistent in accuracy from day to day. I have tried around 10 different powders for the 6.5-284, but not 17. At this point, I probably won't.

I'll take H-4831SC all day, every day in a 6.5-284.

Have you tried any IMR 7828 SSC...tried some this year in my 264.. accuracy and velocity is very good...don't know about the longggggg range but you might give it a try.

Tried it in my .257 Weatherby, not in the 6.5-284. In the .257 WM, it was OK, RL-25 was the best. It's slower IIRC than Vv 165. May be too slow and bulky for the case capacity of a 284 sized ctg. Probably wouldn't be able to get enough in the case for good performance.

DF

This is the SSC version of 7828 which is advertized to be 4% less dense..this what you used ?

I lost over a third of my first Krieger barrel chasing the holy grail of accuracy and extreme spread. Never again.

Checking my notes, I tried H-4350, H-4831, H-1000, 7828,(before SSC)R-19, R-22, R-25, Magnum, VV-165, Retumbo, and maybe others. Plus Sierras, Bergers, primers, seating depths, neck tension, blah,blah,blah....

I ended up just buying 48 pounds of H-4831SC, Lapua brass(a given) Fed 210M's, seat 'em into the lands and give'er hell. Sierra's accuracy was at 3060, the Bergers were at two grains less. Actually, the Bergers are at the same charge weight that JB found shot the best with his ER Shaw barreled gun he wrote about in TVH mag.

The advantage to buying a large lot of powder is that there's no guessing when you get a new barrel. You know where to start and where you'll probably end up.I shoot the same load now in all of 'em, whether it's an 18" XP or a 31" comp gun.

How's this for a test bed....62 pounds worth. Bat dual port action, Jewell trigger, cast/stainless 42# stock with an 8" forend, 3" butt, 31 inch 13 pound 1.45" straight, barrel blocked 8 twist Broughton, 12x42 NF in Kelbly rings on a Bat 50 MOA base.

Shooting 140s I presume?? may have to try H-4831 SC...

Yup, 140 Berger VLDs or the 142 SMKs.

NICE!!! now that's a machine!!!

Here's a target from the new barrel on the gun in the pic.

These are the FIRST rounds down the barrel, no breaking in, shot at 500 yards. Moly plated 142 Sierras, seated in the lands for a square mark, H-4831 SC, in Lapua brass, and 210M's.

After running the 53-56 grain test, I loaded up 5 more at 56 and shot them to double check. Good 'nuff, I quit. I ended up shooting the 56 grain load at 3100 even with an extreme spread of 4! However, the primer pockets started to loosen up a bit after two firings, so I backed off a grain. The brass is still going, btw.
I'd suggest you don't try this load w/o starting much lower. This lot of powder, which seems to be on the slow side, combined with the moly, is fine in all of mine, but not necessarily yours.

These have been like hen's teeth for waaaaay too long.

The brown truck just puked these out......






Go big or go home.......

Holy chit,too bad you won't be doin much shooting in the future!!!

Nice rig-your using a hunting bullet for 1000yd competition, did you try the 142 SMK, if so please comment on your findings. Have a great day.

That's way cool, aalf. Quite a rig. What is the real difference between Berger target and hunting bullets? I've heard all sorts of things, like no difference at all.

Isn't H-4831-SC one of those Extreme series, Australian powders that's reportedly very temp stable?

DF

The pic with the 5 groups is with the 142's.

At one time there was just the standard VLD's. Then people were finding that certain barrels would blow up the 140's, so they ended up making the 6.5 140's with a thicker jacket and designated those TARGET bullets, and packaged them in the yellow boxes. The original 140's, with the "thinner" jacket is now the HUNTING bullet, and packaged in the orange box.

I was one of the fortunate ones that had issues with the bullets not making it to the target. It was an 8 1/2" Krieger. Interestingly, my 8 twist Broughton, with more rounds through it, would not. There was no rhyme nor reason to it. I retired that barrel early. I probably could have went to the SMK's, but kinda lost faith in it.

Yup, the H-4831 is an extreme powder. I shoot the same load at 30 degrees or 90. I do keep them in a cooler to avoid the extremes though.

Maybe it was the Broughton's rifling that was less aggessive to the thin, J4 Berger jacket. I have a .308 with their 5C rifling that reportedly has a slight bevel on the cutting edge to engrave less into the bullet jacket. Just a thought.

DF