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Joined: Jan 2004
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Just AI it and be done.. there is no downside... ..

And +10 on the RL-17..

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Croldfort,
Ackley claimed the only cartrides that satisfied him in his Imp line of cartridges were the 250 Savage, 257 Roberts and 7x57, these 3 gained about 300 FPS and that is a substantial gain.

As to the 338-06, and from a practical hunting standpoint there is little, if any advantage to improving it..But, I would suggest there might be some advantage to case life, another 100 ot 150 FPS in velocity, better head spaceing and less case trimming as the IMP cases are alleged to streatch less and I think I agree on this, and one probably has more room for his bullets and if you have a long chamber and magazine then you can add even more velocity, all the same ole stuff, and it has some merit, but at the price of time and effort.

I wouldn't expect any better killing power as there is plenty to spare in both..

In my opinnion, and I shot the 338-06 in both std. and IMP. early on, the best way to improve the 338-06 is to rechamber it to the 338 Win.

The 338 Win. walks off and leaves the 338-06, it does not have any more felt recoil that I can tell, it works out of the same size action, if you want 338-06 performance then use less powder in your 338 Win. It really improves on the 338-06 IMO and in the same rifle..At least that has been my experience and Elmer Keith agreed with that.

I can push a 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS with little pressure, and a 300 gr. woodliegh at 2500 FPS, that is way beyond a properly loaded 338-06.

I have no problem with the so called dreaded "belt" for you belt bashers, it's been working on the 375 H&H, 300 WBY, 416 Rem, 7 MM Magnums for 200 years, and with honors.

If I wanted a non belted 338 then I would go with the 9.3x62 as the best bet..Whoops I have one of those also.

Not bashing the 338-06 or the 35 Whelan (same catagory as the 338-06), they are both definately good cartridges, just that IMO there are a couple of better options out there for your consideration.

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Had and love the Standard NON-ai. Would never do one in AI.

Case stretch a non issue. Performance too similar IMHO.

Throat a Non-Ai for 250s to max case capacity and still touch lands if desired w/200-230s - those will do most anything asked of the 338 bore IMHO. 250 and heavier are fine also, but trajectory can be an issue.

IMR4320/WW cases/partial sized brass after simple neck up and firing worked great.

1/2MOA

2900+ w/200s
2790 w/215s
2670 w/225s

23" Hart

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I have both the .338-06 and .338Win taking up space in my safes. A .375H&H lives in there, too. I don't shoot anything bigger than whitetails and the .308Win get my nod there.

FWIW, one of my elderly local gunsmiths used to drive to AZ to shoot long range. Mayap 900yds. IIRC, his rifle was a custom .30-06 AI loaded with 190 gr bullets.

He had two old German Schuetzen rifles with hand carved stocks that were an absolute work of art. I would make him drag them out from the back of his house, just so I could admire them. Life is good.

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I have a 257AI and 7X57AI and love the "improvement"! laugh

I once owned a 30-06 AI and found no earthly reason why, after fiddling with it a lot.

I tend to agree that not much is gained in the bigger tubes, however my FN rechambered from 375 H&H to 375 Wby gains 100-170 FPS.


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IC B2

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Well okay, I'll bring it up long as no one else has. In Nosler #5 the 338-06 A-Square has a Max SAAMI OAL of 3.440" . One would be damn hard pressed to get that length in a 98 unless you plan on a major magazine job. My FN lets me seat a 200gr SP Hornady in the middle of the cannnuelure with a 2.484" trim job for an OAL of 3.332" and that is to tight. If you don't lengthen your magazine you have to short seat the bullets and how does that add to your case capacity? So buy a M700LA and rebarrel it to cash in on the 3.6"+ mag length. Hey build it to shoot, not swoon over. You asked for opinions,I gave you mine at no charge.Magnum_Man

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I've got a .338 AI in the works right now. The barrel, a 24", was given to me, so I ain't got a nickel in it. I don't want to open up the bolt face and fuss with feeding, so I won't go with a magnum. I reckon I'd get better speed from a 26" tube, but apart from the many nickels I'd have in it, it'd be a bit unwieldy. Pretty sure a bear won't be able to tell the difference...

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I've owned a few rifles chambered for 40-degree shoulder improved cartridges and don't recall that any of them fed as smoothly as the original case prior to being improved.

The worst feeding improved cartrisge that I had was a 250AI in a Ruger 77 RSI. It fed so poorly that I got a new 77 RSI 250 Savage barrel from Rody's and rechambered it to 25 Souper. Same performance, better/smoother feeding.

I have a 338-06 built on a Husqvarna action that was intended for shooting elk and moose size animals, big enough that I want to be able to take quick follow up shots for as long as the animal is still standing and the shot(s) aren't obstructed.

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A nearly 11 year old thread resurrected. Nice.


The way life should be.
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Originally Posted by bluefish
A nearly 11 year old thread resurrected. Nice.


Are you sure ?????????????

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Sure it's nice or sure it's nearly 11 years old?


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even on an 11 yr old thread. I have one on a Model 70 action.... and compared to several friends who have the AI version...
mine is more accurate ( done by one of the last guys to train under Ackley, who recommended not going with an AI version), plus mine gets 50 to 75 more Fps MV, that 3 friends AI's get....

YMMV...

But I took Bob West's advise and glad I did....he may not have been P.O. Ackley, but training under him, is about a close as one could get...


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NONE. Unless paper ballistics impress you.


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Originally Posted by michigan70

So is there any reason to consider using the Ackley improved round?

NO.....unless you like spending more for dies and suffering more on resale value......and gaining nothing for it.

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AI cartridges are a great way to spend money and have cocktail hour yarns for a little extra performance. Ymmv


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I have owned a bunch of Ackley Improved cartridges over the years. I have a 280 Ackley now, only because it was a new factory rifle at a good price. Overall, they are not worth it. Wasted components when fire forming, barrel wear doing same, and all for little gain. I am past the "Gee Whiz!' stage now.


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With components being in short supply nowadays, just about "any" round is going to be costly. If one has a good supply of them, then hey, whatever a man chooses is OK. I would not do another AI myself, just because of that, and Time is a premium anymore. But I do like how they "look" , ha.

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I really like all of my Ackleys, but I tend to push them hard. The 338-06 Imp. is 30 this year, so predates the A-Square. A stainless A-bolt stalker with a 25" Shilen select barrel. It only has a 1.5-5x scope, so not the best rig for shooting tiny groups, but adequate for 300+ yd on deer size animals. No feeding problems at all as long as I stay under 3.4" OAL. CH made dies for my chamber at a reasonable price. Get the tapered expander as an option or add-on. There has been about 820 rounds down the tube so far including F/F. The Teslong shows no ugliness anywhere in the barrel. I still have the unfired factory '06 barrel that will screw right back onto the gun. It really doesn't matter, but will someone please explain why the resale value would take a hit?

No standard 338-06 to compare it with, but I can reach 3000fps with 200s & 210s with a casefull of H4350 & between 1/2" to 1-1/2" 4-shot groups @100yds. Mostly under an inch. For comparison... this is approx. 8-10gr less powder than a 338 WM uses to get the same speed. Big Game is also showing promise. Two different lots of RL17 didn't quite get it accuracy-wise in my rifle. Speeds were up close to 3000. Hornady 35 Whelen brass is on the 5th or 6th full power firing. Primer pockets remain tight. I've used 280, 30-06, & the Horny 35 Whelen brass so far with success. With past lots of brass, it rarely needs trim after F/F (to square mouths). The rifle was built specifically for the 210 Partition & I can see no reason or need to shoot anything heavier than 215 Sierras, or maybe 225s at 2800+ & 2600fps respectively in very limited testing so far.

Nothing needs to be "wasted" during fireforming. If you're that damned cheap, I wouldn't hesitate to take it deer hunting around here with F/F loads. Of the last 25 I formed with Speer 200s & the remnants of an $11 price tagged can of IMR4895, 18 shot into 1-1/2' @ 100 yds. at 2764fps 10' instrumental. The 2 flyers opened it to about 2-1/2". The last 5 rang a 6" steel plate at 200 yds. with a 1" high 100 yd. zero. Range notes say it was, not windy, but WINDY that day. Not too shabby for a bunch of leftovers.


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358WCF,

Pushing Ackley Improved cartridges "hard" is the primary reason they supposedly get significantly more velocity--and always has been. Only a few Ackley Improved rounds get 100 fps more muzzle velocity when loaded to the same pressure--and those are older cartridges with far more body taper than the .338-06, such as the .250 Savage. In most cartridges you can get within 50 fps of the same muzzle velocity by pushing them hard.

I have fooled with a bunch of Ackley (and other "improved") rounds, and so far the only significant difference I've found is the near elimination of case-stretch--which saves a lot of time in reloading hundreds of varmint rounds, but not much in big game cartridges. That said, a lot of recent varmint rounds have a sharp enough shoulder to result in essentially the same thing.

But whatever.....


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I have the AI versions of several (including the 338/06AI) and I mostly like them because my fired brass management isn’t good and I like to quickly ID my brass and I neck brass up and down so head stamps alone don’t always work

Except my 223AI, while it’s nice to quickly separate that brass from say my AR15, I shoot heavier bullets in it and try for every FPS I can get. whistle


Despite my user name, no I am not from Texas.........

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