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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540 |
Agreed Bluefin!
Ray could have put this fire out very quickly a coupla years ago by just posting a few pics. He didn't do that so I have to think there was a reason why a man would continue to have his name dragged through the mud when he could've avoided it.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 380
Campfire Member
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 380 |
Hatari,
None of these guys have ever hunted with me, none of them even know me, its and internet vendetta, like the folks in Washington, they are like coyotes, what they don't eat they [bleep] on. They are licking wounds that are 5 or 10 years old, and its eating them up. How dumb is that?
I will be the one who determines if this hunt is legitamate or not, not these flunkys that have never been to Africa, don't know the politics or geographical boundries, and don't understand that Gokwe is a National Park run by the Government, and Gokwe has a number of concession and Dudley Rogers does not own them all...
If the Govnor is right and he is sending me a letter of permission to hunt as he is the instigator of the hunt with the OK from Magabe and he commissioned Peter Uys and Robbie Kruger to do it, then this hunt is legal..It is not a cull, it is a meat hunt, and that is a technicality in the business of African hunting I guess.
So before some dumb ass jumps up and sez. "oh your doing business with Magabe" I will clarify that everyone in the hunting business in Zimbabwe is doing business wiht Magabee otherwise they would not be there. He is the president like it or not, just like Obama, like it or not. The safari companies that opposed him are gone., the ones that made the best out of a bad situation are still there.
Saeed realized that Drummond is just an internet flamer who obviously hates me, and told him to take his vendetta elewhere, as he was tired of listening to it. Drummond has a couple of hired guns that back up all his posts, sometimes they even use different names..As far as flaming me, it has no effect other than I get tired and bored reading it. I have been in business about as long as anyone and I wouldn't have survived all these years if 1/10th of what they say was true..I intend to wind down and retire after I have completed all my 2011 hunts that are now booked. I will always book for my old cleintele on request as they have been loyal friends for years, but I am looking forward to that retirement and persueing my team roping habit.
I am off to shoot my Antelope tomorrow and then look forward to roping in Arizona during the months of Feb. and maybe into March.
The information in the post above differs a little bit from what is posted on AR, but here is Martin Pieters' response on AR: Ray, to answer some of your questions:
As a committee member of ZPHGA, I am still waiting to be contacted by you requesting information on this offer.
Dudley does in fact have Gokwe North and South, your assumption that he does not is incorrect.
There is no Gokwe National Park, it does not exist.
Dudley did not sell his soul to get Gokwe, after running it professionally for 20 years, he has managed to retain it, which in my books means that he has been honest and paid his fees on time, followed his Campfire agreement and operated legally above the radar.
Yes, Robbie Kruger is an SA guy, he may use Peter Uys, who is NOT A LICENCED PH in Zimbabwe, he resides on a seized piece of land in the Gwayi known as Karna East!
Meat hunts for the tribal people as you put it do not occur, in fact meat from elephant taken in ' tribal ' concessions ( commonly called Campfire areas ) is distributed to the locals, this is how it works. If elephant are shot in ' other ' areas, there are no villagers and it is possibly only for financial gain.
The wildlife in Zimbabwe is controlled by National Parks, all of it, without a quota or hunting permit stamped and approved by national parks, the hunt is illegal.
Most of the ' good guys' are in Tanzania, I would look again!
I have contacted SOAZ and the Director of Parks and will have an answer later today.
martin bulembisafaris.co.zw
www.martinpieterssafaris.com
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Interesting reading anyway.
What I don't actually get.... folks would take off, pay flights, and pay money to shoot something they get no meat, no hide, no antlers/horns/tusks.... And talking of basically 20K plus the flight... wow.
Just me though I guess.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,256
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,256 |
Interesting reading anyway.
What I don't actually get.... folks would take off, pay flights, and pay money to shoot something they get no meat, no hide, no antlers/horns/tusks.... And talking of basically 20K plus the flight... wow.
Just me though I guess. You could stand just a few yards from certain death about ready to prove to yourself that you have what it takes to take the actions necessary to prove to yourself that you are what you believe you are. Always a fun thought over a morning cup of coffee.. 
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,256
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,256 |
Even better than the 26 inch pronghorn he once saw.. is in the quote from above and the saga continues on the link originally provided by maddog above. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/832100588/m/9871046141As a committee member of ZPHGA, I am still waiting to be contacted by you requesting information on this offer. Dudley does in fact have Gokwe North and South, your assumption that he does not is incorrect. There is no Gokwe National Park, it does not exist.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,575
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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This is some funny shixt - Ray is a blowhard - anyone that can't see that might just have their eyelids sewed shut too.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
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To those that ask me to clear the air, I have not posted because its all bullshit by those that have no clue, just internet jockies..I will not apease them with pictures and answers because it would do no good..I do that for my clients that intend to hunt.
I ask them, in all their knowledge to answer the simple questions that I have.
1. Is this hunt illegal
2. Has anyone been prosecuted for doing this.
3. Has any Safari company done this now or in the past, do they allow thier clients to do this when requested by the Magabe Governors.
As opposed to name calling and interntet bullshit, answer the questions and back them up with fact.
Perhaps the big lie is these hunts are not illegal, and it may be a scam to present them as so..I am trying to find out these things..
I have no further intention of addressing this small group of misfits in this situation, I am doing it for the benefit of my clientele and those who might be effected by it...They can rattle to each other, thats what they do best.
My biggest chore in getting answers from the powers that be is they don't want to address anyhthing that happens on these blogs, they just laugh and tell me to forget it, it has no credibility. Thats disturbing as many here are intelligent folks that just like to hunt.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
If Zimbabwe is such a $hithole, why doesn't the U.S. State Department make it off-limits to Americans? Let the rest of the world's hunters go there, but keep American $$ out of the hands of Roger Mugabe et al.
If I was in a position to do so, I would impose an immediately embargo toward Zimbabwe, along with cutting off aid to any/all non-democratically elected countries and countries that don't honor they're cooperation agreements with the U.S., like Pakistan, after 90 days. Without U.S. aid, millions of poor people would likely starve, but a significant subset of that universe already hates the U.S., for a variety of reasons, both real and immagined, so what difference would it make to our interests?
Jeff
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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To those that ask me to clear the air, I have not posted because its all bullshit by those that have no clue, just internet jockies..I will not apease them with pictures and answers because it would do no good..I do that for my clients that intend to hunt.
I ask them, in all their knowledge to answer the simple questions that I have.
1. Is this hunt illegal
2. Has anyone been prosecuted for doing this.
3. Has any Safari company done this now or in the past, do they allow thier clients to do this when requested by the Magabe Governors.
As opposed to name calling and interntet bullshit, answer the questions and back them up with fact.
Perhaps the big lie is these hunts are not illegal, and it may be a scam to present them as so..I am trying to find out these things..
I have no further intention of addressing this small group of misfits in this situation, I am doing it for the benefit of my clientele and those who might be effected by it...They can rattle to each other, thats what they do best.
My biggest chore in getting answers from the powers that be is they don't want to address anyhthing that happens on these blogs, they just laugh and tell me to forget it, it has no credibility. Thats disturbing as many here are intelligent folks that just like to hunt. Really Ray? Effing really?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,600
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,600 |
If Zimbabwe is such a $hithole, why doesn't the U.S. State Department make it off-limits to Americans? Let the rest of the world's hunters go there, but keep American $$ out of the hands of Roger Mugabe et al.
If I was in a position to do so, I would impose an immediately embargo toward Zimbabwe, along with cutting off aid to any/all non-democratically elected countries and countries that don't honor they're cooperation agreements with the U.S., like Pakistan, after 90 days. Without U.S. aid, millions of poor people would likely starve, but a significant subset of that universe already hates the U.S., for a variety of reasons, both real and immagined, so what difference would it make to our interests?
Jeff 260 if you do that, you would be signing the death warrants for tens of thusands of animals that would be killed by poachers as they would lose their value as trophies, not to mention the approximately five thousand whites most who've been there as long as Americans have been here in the US that depend on the hunting idustry. The best way to approach this is to ONLY hunt with reputable outfitters that are not on the US sacntions list and are doing wonders with little income to preserve the wildlife there. Just some food for thought for you. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 893
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 893 |
Here is a link to an electronic copy of Endangered Species Desk Book Seems pretty comprehensive and covers the Lacey Act, some prosecutions and results. Though I haven't read the entire document, Page 63 might shed a bit of light.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,759 |
one hunter 7 days (maybe 14 days not sure)and you get 4 elephant and 4 buffalo all inclusive for $35,500.00
I am sending an email as to can a hunter shoot any size elephant or buffalo. Where else can you have somebody say "I have a hunt for $35,000 (  ). I'm not really sure where it is, how long it is, what you can shoot, why you're shooting it, what's included, anything else about the whole deal, or if it's even legal, and I'm not going to explain any of that to you internet bullies. Just send me a check, consider yourself lucky enough to be in my priviledged inner circle of "serious clientele", cross your fingers, and hope you get to return home afterwards (and if you're lucky, with a picture of the unknown animal in an unknown location). I'll try to provide full details after the fact, after the governor gets back to me. Don't worry though, cause I'm keeping an email trail, that is guaranteed to stand up in an African court." Holy f'ing crap!!! 
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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thier clients to do this when requested by the Magabe Governors.
...interntet bullshit,
... and it may be a scam to present them as so..I am trying to find out these things..
...thats
... don't want to address anyhthing couple random thoughts: 1) Writing "it may be a scam" in the opening line of a proposed business transaction tends to turn off potential buyers. 2) Spelling the names of government officials correctly goes a long way towards establishing credibility on a subject involving said govt. officials. ( It' M Ugabe, not Magabe - you've gotten that wrong, like, 6 times on this thread alone.) 3) There's an automatic spell-check in (whatever browser you're using). Use it. You're not posting as some drunk on Saturday night railing against da man - you're supposed to be a businessman who's trying to get someone to give you $35 grand on faith .)
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,370
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,370 |
Interesting reading anyway.
What I don't actually get.... folks would take off, pay flights, and pay money to shoot something they get no meat, no hide, no antlers/horns/tusks.... And talking of basically 20K plus the flight... wow.
Just me though I guess. You could stand just a few yards from certain death about ready to prove to yourself that you have what it takes to take the actions necessary to prove to yourself that you are what you believe you are. Always a fun thought over a morning cup of coffee.. No need to go to Africa for that...I can find action like that not 5 minutes from my front door...I gotta agree with Rost...it is kinda interesting reading...
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 893
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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If I were a betting man, there are four ways this will go.
1. He will come back with more bluster, BS and blaming others.
2. He will continue to try to shift to "getting to the bottom of this" and reporting violators nonsense.
3. He will come back and say he was totally wrong for posting this at all without having all the info & docs locked up tight beforehand and apologize to all those who questioned the legitimacy/legality of his offer.
4. He will ignore the post completely maybe stop posting at all on this site - for awhile anyway.
Any takers?
Maybe this should be done as a poll. Then he could get a visual graphic of how others see him and his offers here.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Interesting reading anyway.
What I don't actually get.... folks would take off, pay flights, and pay money to shoot something they get no meat, no hide, no antlers/horns/tusks.... And talking of basically 20K plus the flight... wow.
Just me though I guess. You could stand just a few yards from certain death about ready to prove to yourself that you have what it takes to take the actions necessary to prove to yourself that you are what you believe you are. Always a fun thought over a morning cup of coffee.. Yep, and what do I get out of that? Photos maybe? I like horns, meat, something to show generally speaking. Way to far, too much money for nothing to show.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 893
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 893 |
I don't mean the guy any ill will. If you go back over a lot of his posts over the years he offers his views/opines on a lot of stuff. Makes a lot of claims that seem possible to a bit....fanciful.... to way out there. He probably has done a lot of "stuff" in his life - just hard to tell fact from....embellishment.
Since it's hard to tell how much of it is BS vs reality (a simple photo posted here, sent to somebody to post here or posted on his web site) a thinking person has to discount the reliably, voracity and credibility of everything he posts. The saddest thing is he expects people who only "know" him from his postings, to put down hard earned $$$ and possibly life and limb based solely on his word with only his previous posting history here.
Wish him well but....as in all things "caveat emptor".
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,759
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 8,759 |
1. He will come back with more bluster, BS and blaming others.
2. He will continue to try to shift to "getting to the bottom of this" and reporting violators nonsense.
3. He will come back and say he was totally wrong for posting this at all without having all the info & docs locked up tight beforehand and apologize to all those who questioned the legitimacy/legality of his offer.
4. He will ignore the post completely maybe stop posting at all on this site - for awhile anyway.
Any takers? #1 followed by (or possibly combined with) #2. #4, modified a bit. He might ignore this post, but he won't quit posting. He'll always have some "one of a kind, unique, once in a lifetime, never before available, you're lucky I'm your friend and allowing you the opportunity, you can only do this if you're a real man", offer. #3 would have to be the long shot here.
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Posts: 11,738
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
Yup, 1, 2 and 4. No chance of 3. We have seen this all before.
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
If Zimbabwe is such a $hithole, why doesn't the U.S. State Department make it off-limits to Americans? Let the rest of the world's hunters go there, but keep American $$ out of the hands of Roger Mugabe et al.
If I was in a position to do so, I would impose an immediately embargo toward Zimbabwe, along with cutting off aid to any/all non-democratically elected countries and countries that don't honor they're cooperation agreements with the U.S., like Pakistan, after 90 days. Without U.S. aid, millions of poor people would likely starve, but a significant subset of that universe already hates the U.S., for a variety of reasons, both real and immagined, so what difference would it make to our interests?
Jeff 260 if you do that, you would be signing the death warrants for tens of thusands of animals that would be killed by poachers as they would lose their value as trophies, not to mention the approximately five thousand whites most who've been there as long as Americans have been here in the US that depend on the hunting idustry. The best way to approach this is to ONLY hunt with reputable outfitters that are not on the US sacntions list and are doing wonders with little income to preserve the wildlife there. Just some food for thought for you. jorge This is exactly right, jorge! Hunting is what saved wildlife in Africa, and if it ceases in Zimbabwe because of any embargo...or any other reason, the critters pay the price...and intimately disappear. Safaris are expensive, and meat can't be brought back. For those who need to bring back more than the experience, it isn't for them. I've known Ray for eleven years now. He sent me on safaris to SA, Zim, and Tanz. The SA safari was what is to be expected in that country, but I had a wonderful time hunting with a PH friend there. Zimbabwe and Tanzania exceeded my wildest dreams. Ray stepped to the plate and saved a safari that was going sideways due to politics and made things more than right for me. The hunts were good values, moderately priced. I am not wealthy by any stretch, and price was a big factor for me. The more I learned about Africa, the more I realized just what it had cost Ray out of his pocket to make things right...better than right. All I can say is, if you don't like the idea of hunting Africa, don't waste your time or money. Hunt where and what you prefer, and how you prefer. Unless you've hunted the still wild places in Africa you won't realize the extent of the experience. I sincerely hope everyone has a chance or two to live out whatever your dreams are. Good hunting. 
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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