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Those who shoot the 6X47 Lapua, how do you like this round?

What would you tell someone to "promote" it over the conventional/popular .243 Win or 6mmRem?

I was told the 6X47 Lapua is extremely efficient and usually VEEEERY accurate!

Also that the cartridge rim is the 'universal' .473 diam. - so this johnny-come-lately would fit the same actions (with few if any mods) to actions for the .243 and 6mm.

Please share what you know. Thanks! wink

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I shoot a few of them and have built alot of them for others. It will outperform a 243 with slightly less powder. It does run higher pressure though to accomplish this. Very very accurate, good brass, easy to load for. I am in the process of rebuilding one of my comp rifles now and it will be a 6x47 Lapua....it was previously a 6.5x47 Lapua. We run 105 bergers from 3150-3300 depending on barrel length...26" to 30" barrels. Its downfall to 243's is the brass price, and not being able to find loaded ammo if needed.

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Originally Posted by StubbleDuck
Those who shoot the 6X47 Lapua, how do you like this round?

What would you tell someone to "promote" it over the conventional/popular .243 Win or 6mmRem?

I was told the 6X47 Lapua is extremely efficient and usually VEEEERY accurate!

Also that the cartridge rim is the 'universal' .473 diam. - so this johnny-come-lately would fit the same actions (with few if any mods) to actions for the .243 and 6mm.

Please share what you know. Thanks! wink


I'm just getting to know mine. It is my first custom build, and it has take a while to get used to it, and sort it out for what it is. I'd have to say that I'm still not "comfortable" with it. I had mine built to learn long range shooting, which I've never properly investigage before. Personally, I can't think of much that it can do compared to the 243 and 6mm remington. I think that if properly built, either of those two rounds can be very accurate also (assuming they've been built with the proper twist for the 105/115gr bullets). I suggest you spend a lot of time reading up on peoples opinions prior to jumping in with both feet.

One downside it the lack of data - I've had to compile anecdotal data from severals sources to get started, and more to find what my rifle seems to like. Nearly everyone says that h4350 and the 105s are it's bread and butter load (so far, mine seems to prefer 115's and RE17). Several postings that I've read is that the 6mm BR or 6BRX will beat it out to 600yds, then the wind becomes the deciding factor. I have seen references to it needing magnum primers for the small primers to provide consistent ignition, especially in cold weather. I've also heard that bushing your firing pin isn't a bad idea due to the pressures. This is again, anecdotal

Brass is expensive, I've found Brunos to be the cheapest source to date. I'm reforming in a Forster FL die. I've 100 pcs formed, and another 100 waiting. Another cartridge in the same performance area is the 6XC (David Tubb's brainchild), which if I read things right is basically a 22/250 necked up, with a 30 degree shoulder and longer neck. He's gotten Norma to produce brass, and I hear it can be reformed relatively easy from any 22/250 brass. It uses the large rifle primer. There is no other source for 6x47L brass other than Lapua. Not sure if you can reform 22/250 to 6x47 without some serious effort. Also, be aware there is also a 6x47 Swiss cartridge that is different (not interchangeable) with brass that is nearly impossible to get outside of Europe.

I hardly classify myself as an expert, most anyone with any trigger time behind a 6x47 rifle (or any benchrest/tactical experience) will have more experience than I, but I do read voraciously anything I see about this cartridge.

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I still love the .243, not sure what advantage the 6x47mm has over it, any more than I'm sure why we have the 6.5x47 with the .260 Rem, but it's nice to have the variety!


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I second the motion..what a great bunch of calibers off the same parent case 243/260/7mm-08 and 308..sorta mirrors the good ole '06 case..don't know of any two non belted cases that have spawned so many good offspring.

I've always been interested in the 6x47 because of being a 6mm fan for years.Will I ever build one I seriously doubt it ..if there's any edge it would have to come in long range competition shooting.For hunting purposes I see no practical advantage over the 243's and 6mm's IMO....


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I run 115 dtacs out of my 28 inch barreled 6x47 at the same velocity I run 115 dtacs out of a 25 inch 243AI. Both are right over 3150 fps using vv 560 in both. There is not really an advantage over the 243 Ai unless it is the toughness of the lapua brass and the lack of fire forming. I have blanked primers in 6x47 brass without ruining the cases. The necks of the 6x47 lapua brass needs annealing before the primer pockets get loose. Since I do not anneal my match brass I neck it down to 22x47. Now that is a great little round....think 220 swift with lapua brass.

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A 243 AI might help the 243 w/stretch, but a 6mm Rem might be the simplest way and great performer.

The 6mm/6.5x47 is a nice round as it is, I might try one if:

A) stamped out the box brass was made
B) bbl life was better than a 243

One must not overlook a 6mmBR, not as in a 'race' against other 6mms, but in balance the total of bbl life, accuracy, ballistics, etc. It's a great round and VERY simple to load, and load w/accuracy. It won't match the 47, but if I wanted that performance, I might just do a custom 243 or 243 AI, run Lapua brass, as I believe they are cheaper yet than the 47s.

I DO think a 6mm Creedmoor, if Hornady did a 6 version, would be a very good performer.

Before the 47, many wildcatters just did a 6/250 or 6/250AI, as the 22 and 6.5 versions. Brass quality I am not sure about, but I think Norma mfg. 22/250, and perhaps Lapua even does. They run similar capacities. Now guys are also doing various versions of the 6BR, which AI'd so about 150 or more OVER the parent case, yet throttle down to 2950 w/105-108s for best accuracy.

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StubbleDuck, what is your intended us of the gun?

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StubbleDuck

Frankly...I can't say enough good things about my Jon Beanland built 6.5x47Lapua! Get the idea I love it?? You're right! This is built on a Rem 700 action and it shoots extremely well all the way back to 1300 yards! I've shot some 5 round groups back at 1300 yds. that I could cover with the back of my fist! Was checking hunting zeros today and confirming zeros that were set two months back and they're right on!! I have a 26" Krieger 1-8.5 ROT barrel and it shoots the Sierra 123 SMK and the Berger 130 bullets both to the same POI using 38.5 grs. Varget! Don't know the MV and don't really care as I only pay attention to what shows up on the face of the target! I've got a 4" square piece of AR400 plate on a rod and from 700 yards using either of the aforementioned bullets it's NO CONTEST at making that plate rotate every shot!! No fire-forming required using Lapua brass; just load and go shoot! Most accurate rifle/cartridge combo I've ever owned over 60 years of shooting competition and hunting and I wouldn't trade this jewel for a blue-nosed mule!!

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You do not know the velocity and your making hits on targets at 1300? What did you do just make your own drop chart from actual drops?

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Originally Posted by EddyBo
You do not know the velocity and your making hits on targets at 1300? What did you do just make your own drop chart from actual drops?


EddyBo

After establishing a foundation zero from 200 yards I walked it right on back to 1300 using experience based on 60 years of shooting long range!

Pretty simple really!

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OP, read this? http://www.6mmhot.com/

Eddy, funny Rich at Sierra told me yesterday he is running a 6x47 and 22x47, latter 80/3600 and 1" on a good day at 600 yds, 2" any day, NOT bad. 3200/107 in the 6. No info given on Bbl length. For me I want no more than 24 on a hunting rifle for how I hunt so speeds may drop a little.


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107's at 3200 isn't that hard in the 6x47 with a 26" barrel. Chrono'd my 26" barrel version the other day with Berger 105's and it was 3190. We really aren't pushing this one. Could go up another grain or so.

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My 6 x 47 Lapua is a 7 1/2" bat with a Bartlien barrel (83/4 to 8 gain) in a Mcmillian Tooley MBR stock smithed by Sid Goodling. Finished 2nd in light gun in the Williamsport World Open (to Jon Ammerman shooting a 6XC) and won the Pa State 1000 yard championships at Reade on October 2nd. Rifle consistently shoots into 6" at 1000 yards with decent conditions. Moderate load of 4350, Wolf SRM primers and 105 VLD's in a hard jam running about 3075 fps or so. Advantages over a .243 or 6MM are very slight but (IMHO) are there, none the less, to include excellent brass, long neck and a small primer.

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Originally Posted by Sharpsman
Originally Posted by EddyBo
You do not know the velocity and your making hits on targets at 1300? What did you do just make your own drop chart from actual drops?


EddyBo

After establishing a foundation zero from 200 yards I walked it right on back to 1300 using experience based on 60 years of shooting long range!

Pretty simple really!

[Linked Image]


Gotcha you walked it in, I have had to do the same with subsonic rounds. I cannot make a balistic program work with subs worth a darn. I am more into making first round hits at unknoown distances using a LRF and a ballistic program. To do it my way knowing your velocity is very important.

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Originally Posted by 65BR
OP, read this? http://www.6mmhot.com/

Eddy, funny Rich at Sierra told me yesterday he is running a 6x47 and 22x47, latter 80/3600 and 1" on a good day at 600 yds, 2" any day, NOT bad. 3200/107 in the 6. No info given on Bbl length. For me I want no more than 24 on a hunting rifle for how I hunt so speeds may drop a little.



22 cal 40 grainers at 4300 are pretty cool too. There is a pretty large velocity drop stepping up to the 90s in 22 cal, but not so much stepping up to the 115s in 6mm. His experiance with the 22x47 and 6mmx 47 are very similar to my own. My hunting is always geared to long range so the longer barrels do not scare me any.

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Like to hear more on your hunting experiences, with either/both rounds if you want. 22 40gr, how are they holding up I am wondering, IF you are using a fast twist bbl? Seems Steve Timm used a 22/250 AI long ago for some high speed 40s on Prairie Dogs. I would imagine after a certain range a 'heavy' would take over.

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BC wins at long range, no denying that fact....but splat factor works for the 40 gr bullets at short range. I have made hits on PDs out to about 800 using the 40 gr bullets in a 14T barrel, but really like the 90s out of my 7.5 twist barrel better for long range. I killed a PD at 1400 yards with the 90 berger but it was not the one I was aiming at, does that still count? (old BR rifle I converted to a switch barrel gun with a 14T and a 7.5T barrel)
I killed a couple of pigs and a deer or two with the 22x47 using tsxs out of an 8T barrel all were pass throughs and there was sufficient damage. (Stiller predator in a robertson composits stock)
I have not hunted with the 6x47 but it is so similar to the 243 that hunting with it would not add any information.

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Thanks. Recall Butch over in Tx sending me photos of a guy who shoots alot and uses the 6x47 on deer and hogs, cannot recall bullets used but he had ALOT of game down w/it. Seems he was using 107-115s. Maybe Butch will chime in.

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Heavies usually take over in the 400-450 depending on bullet weight, Light bullet BC, and speed.

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hunting though. you guys are all giving great reviews on heavy 30" tubes that make the lapua shine.. 22-23" tube sporter weight same twist. using your experience guesstimate reduced velocities and then compare them to the 243. say 105's.. maaaaaaybe 115's.

i ask because of the blank i have and both reamers available..

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woofer;

FWIW, QL shows the 6x47L at 47.00 grains internal capacity, 2.800" COAL, and a (redlined) max charge (63kPSI) of H4350 at 41.0 grains (100% capacity) under a 105 A-Max for 3037 fps from a 22" tube.

Same (redlined) max charge of H4350 (63kPSI, 43.0 grains, 96% capacity) and 2.800" COAL for the .243Win and the 105 A-Max shows the estimate at 2993 fps from a 22" tube.

I'm not seeing the advantage, nor the difference, and would probably just AI the .243, load to 2.800", and run with it.

If I wanted "less is more" in the 6mm class, I'd look HARD at the 6mmBR or the 6PPC. The 6mmBR(Norma) should get you to 2800 fps-ish, with about 30-31 grains of RL-15, and the 6PPC to about 2600 with about 22-23 grains of RL-10x.

But, that's just me.

Last edited by VAnimrod; 11/02/10. Reason: disclaimer: haven't run the x47s, nor the PPC, but am damned curious about them



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Try running max+ loads through both of the hypothetical rifles considered above multiple times and you will see some small advantage. The large primer pocketed cases will start to become extremely loose even to the point of leaking gas. The smaall rifle primered cases will still be tight. Not a real advantage unless your shooting f-class. When you fire 66 rounds per match it is nice not to have to prep new brass every month.

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Eddy;

True, but woofer is looking at a LW hunting rifle, not a bench gun, thus the hair-splitting.




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My 6BR - last 26", 8t, ran 105s at 2850. Figure 8-12fps per 1" cut. BRX - 'ai' runs around 2950 in similar bbl. The 47 should run around 3,000-3050 in a 22-23" hunting rifle w/105s.

Above assumes safe accurate loads, not 'all out primer pocket loosening loads.'

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Originally Posted by VAnimrod
Eddy;

True, but woofer is looking at a LW hunting rifle, not a bench gun, thus the hair-splitting.


Yea under those parameters I would take the 243AI there is not much much diffference unless your shooting high volume. I just debated im my mind what to chamber a new brux 6mm interrupted fluting sendero contour barrel in. I have reamers for 6x47, 6x284, and 243 and 243AI. I decded that I could not go wrong with 243AI. Now just to decide what action and stock to use. I am thinking just a trued 700 in a HS stock. I have decided to use the defiance action and mcmillan HTG I had earmarked for this barrel with a Rock creek ABS that arrived the other day. My stable of 6mms is getting unmanageable. I think I am going 243AI with both but may change my mind and do one in 6x284.

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what about mag length restrictions with the bigger 6's? any benefit to running the shorter BR cases or L? no fireforming is fun. i am not afraid to buy brass. just wondering if i am leaving anything on the table by wandering away from the 243...

thanks!

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another thought. do these rules apply to the 6.5 also or the larger bullets eat up horsepower to the point that the benfits befall the 08' case?

thanks

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I built mine for hunting. It has a ten twist barrel cut at 22". I shoot 85gr Sierra HPBT's and it is a tack driver. One downside is the lack of data. I have not used mine alot, but have killed four hogs with it. None took a step.


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Anyone still shooting a 6x47L?


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Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Anyone still shooting a 6x47L?


Yes, great round. Mine is built on Defiance Deviant action with 26in Bartlien barrel, MTU contour, 8 twist. Built it for long range. PRS. and sniper/tacticaL type matches.
Running 105 hybrids at 3080, shoots great, haven't tried to push them faster.
Pluses about it in my opinion:
1. Low rcoil
2 Redding makes the dies.
3. Simple to neck 6.5x47 brass down, just run thru 6x47 die and ready to load.
4. Short action,uses standard .473 bolt face.



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I just chambered up one in a Savage action for OWL. I am waiting for Defiance to send me two actions to do two more. Suggestions on loads?


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Originally Posted by dennisinaz
I just chambered up one in a Savage action for OWL. I am waiting for Defiance to send me two actions to do two more. Suggestions on loads?


I'm using 39.6gr H4350. The guys that helped me with this told me to max at 40. The guy who's reamer was used to cut my chamber uses same load with a 107smk. I did my original load up when temps were in the 20's, waiting for some hot weather, 80's, before tweaking load.


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I ended up with an almost identical 39.7 grains of H4350, which pushes an uncoated Berger 105 Hunting VLD to 3,020-3,040 out of a 23" barrel, on a 70 degree day in Tucson.

Through cartridge or build it's been a bit of fickle mistress. Partly because I had that "It's Lapua brass, it won't need any work" attitude I simply swaged the necks down in a 6BR die with about a .268 bushing. After disappointing trips to range I mic'd the necks and found them pretty significantly egg-shaped. I ended up setting the neck turner to skim about 2/3rds of the neck and my .270" loaded rounds in a .272" chamber now seem to offer less "WTF" shots in a group. This coupled with cutting down the originally 24" barrel to 23" seems to have it shooting more consistently, but nothing spectacular. I've tried hotter charges, different primers--nothing seems to be a magic combo for it.

Will spend more time with it, but for me it's been sort of a "shrug" chambering.


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Took the 6x47L and a couple other rifles out for a run this afternoon. First decent day in what seems like forever to do some shooting/load testing - mid-60's, light 5-10mph wind at 90* to my shooting lane.

Had about 35 rounds with me loaded with H4350, 87gr VMax, and CCI-450s, with a 2.665 COAL. (Note: Berger manual shows 2.800" COAL with their 87/88gr bullet. The 87gr VMax, in my rifle at 2.665", was .010 off the lands.) Loads started at 39.0gr and went up in .3gr increments - 3 rounds of each load. All loads groups at 1" or less at 100yds, but the final load of 41.4gr/H4350 grouped at .368" with no signs of pressure. Of the remaining loads, the load of 39.6gr/H4350 grouped .524".

Oehler 35P clocked the 41.4gr load at an average 3124fps, 10ft from the muzzle. Got a PD trip coming up, and need to load a bunch, so I'm gonna stand pat with the 41.4gr load. I might possibly bump up the powder charge a little, and play with seating depth when I get back.


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Good stuff.


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Shot the first 6x47L that I chambered this weekend. Shot 55s, 65s and 100s- 9 1/4 twist so no need to try the VLDs. I used Varget for the light bullets and 4451 & 100V for the 100s. This is a 24" featherweight barrel on a Savage so I didn't expect much for accuracy but it DEFINITELY is not up to 243 Winchester velocities. I went until I had definite pressure for each bullet and powder so I would have a baseline to work off of since there is almost no PUBLISHED data on this cartridge.

Wind was horrible so groups were not always great-even with the good rifles. If you guys are getting 243 velocities, you are also getting stratospheric pressures!


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With that twist you might try the 95 SMK's, or TMK's. I had some promising groups with those, and a case stuffed with N160. Didn't chrony them, and they printed a bit lower on the page than other loads with 4350, but they did group---.3'ish


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THis was just an experiment with a $30 ER Shaw barrel. I am still waitingfor actions to chamber with match grade barrels. Just noticed that velocities are not magical- about what you might expect with that much powder.

This rifle is going to be a coyote killer. ANy bullet will work


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No love for the 6mm Remington or 6mm AI?



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6.5x47L brass has been typically, wonderful; coupled with a small rifle primer has great potential for and efficient, accurate round. I have read several places where folks claim 243 Winchester velocities. Powder capacity is 6 or 7 grains less. Just not going to happen. I am still waiting to see what the accuracy side of it is. I shot a total of ONE group that all cases had the same powder charge. The rest were half grain increments to see the VELOCITY potential and try two new powders (to me). The rifle had a very well used, cheap-ass Simmons scope on it. Conditions were very blustery. I can't even begin to judge how well this particular rifle will shoot.

I am optimistic that the cartridge will be good to me. Not as much confidence in a $30 Shaw close-out barrel on an old Savage with a $30 scope.


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Good friend used the 6.5 X 47 when we were P.D. shooting last summer, was spotting for him when he one shot killed a P.D. at 722 yrds impressed the helll out of me. RIO7

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Blue- there is lots of good data for the 6.5x47L, not so much for the version necked down to 6mm.


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Dennis, I lean to the .243 A.I. It's easy peasey,as some one said. Blue

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Originally Posted by dennisinaz
6.5x47L brass has been typically, wonderful; coupled with a small rifle primer has great potential for and efficient, accurate round. I have read several places where folks claim 243 Winchester velocities. Powder capacity is 6 or 7 grains less. Just not going to happen.



Dennis, the 6x47 I recently sold averaged 2956, 105 Amax over RL26, 22.75" barrel.

I checked my notes and my 243AI that I recently sold, averaged 3018, 105 Amax over RL22, 22.5" barrel.

My 243 donor for the AI above averaged 3005, 105 Amax over RL26, 24" barrel.

Out of a 22" barrel I believe it's a tie.


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My .243 A.I.with 105 gr hits 2950 fps and I am not pushing it at all. that's were it shoots the best Rio7


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Rio,
I'm getting 3005 with 105's out of my 6mm Remington. I could push it more, but it shoots great as is.....

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accurate is accurate, speed is speed, some time you can get both in the same load, but if you can't i will take accurate every time. RIO7

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I'll have to look but I think I was getting 2950 with 100 Hornady interlocks with a 24" barrel. Maybe that was the over-pressure load.

I have heard stories of 4100-4200 fps with 55 grain ballistic tips in the 243 but I couldn't get over about 3800 with this rifle

I got to 3600 with the 65 grain V-max bullets.


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