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Joined: Aug 2005
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This kind of talk is ruining my whole 160 Woodleigh experiment. I will say the berger has been quite emphatic on mountain goat and antelope which was really no surprise.

GB1

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Moose, just how far do you really plan on shooting an elk?

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Never had to shoot one past 400 yards and actually tend to hunt them in thicker stuff. So if a sharper shot angle presented itself I would prefer to be able to take that versus shooting an extra 100 yards. Only have deer tags left this year so mainly shooting, supporting the shooting industry and having fun for the next 10 months.

John has me looking up 140 berger loads for our 260 even though I have hundreds of accubonds loaded up. Good stuff to do during the upcoming winter.

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Just think if you hit a small tree or limb enroute just in front of your elk.....what bullet has the best chance? Maybe a small chance, but I'd not want a 'vld' type bullet. Missed a Mulie my first shot once in CO, 139 SP hit a small sapling a few yds in front of the deer, never saw it in my 4x. Lucky for me he stayed after the shot while the dozen or so does in front of him left. Neck shot dropped him, range around 110 paces.

Not ragging the Bergers, but just saying, your 160 is a good choice for what/how you are hunting IMO. A tougher bullet may just be preferably in a worst case scenario.

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Quote
Just think if you hit a small tree or limb enroute just in front of your elk.....what bullet has the best chance?
I am pretty positive that my selection of bullets WILL NEVER include this as part of the criteria...

FWIW, Mule Deer has reported on brush deflection and IIRC pointy bullets did better than conventional "brush buster" shapes/weights.

IC B2

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It's not the deflection that's the problem, so much as the VLD turning to pepper by the time it exits the tree and hits the animal wink

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Still wouldn't worry me. Like I said, impacts with brush aren't a decision criteria for me.

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JS, that's what I meant to say! Pointer, everybody hunts different types of terrain, yours may be more open. No doubt most any bullet will want to deflect, but if hit square in the middle of something, a tougher bullet may well go right thru and exit intact well enough to kill. Other's won't fare as well.

No doubt, if at all possible, you never want to hit anything enroute to your game. It's just one of many 'possibilities' that occasionally happens.

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I get it. Still won't pick a bullet based on that criteria, which is not the same as saying my bullet choices won't meet that criteria.

Quote
but if hit square in the middle of something, a tougher bullet may well go right thru and exit intact well enough to kill.
Extending that logic, a smaller cased 6.5 won't work as well as my .338. Right?


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Depends on many things, smaller frontal area helps penetration, so 'like' constructed bullets in 6.5 and 338 w/similar SD may not be that different in penetration. Think in terms of a .177 vs. 22 cal airgun pellet....

No doubt in open terrain on extra long shots, BC is important, but should not be the only dimension used to judge a bullet's worth for ALL situations IMO.

IC B3

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Okay, you win the mental masterbation contest. You make me think you think too much about stuff that dont need much thinking.

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My whole point is many think the heavy RN bullets wont work at common ranges, reserving them for brush country only, but I feel they have their place, as many other bullet designs. If I were shooting ultra long shots in open country, Bergers and Amax's would be top picks, as well as Accubonds.

If you use Bergers in all situations, I am confident you do well and know where to shoot. It's a subjective choice that I pick and choose certain bullets for various applications. Others just use one and stick w/it.

I'd no more want to shoot an animal w/a VLD type bullet at 50 yds at Magnum velocities in the shoulder or from a rear angle, than I would want to poke one w/a heavy roundnose at 700 yds.

No doubt, much is minutia, when one places their shot thru vitals. Many ways to accomplish that objective.


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You are starting to make my eyes hurt.

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Hunt more ballistic gack less...

Dober


"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire Kahuna
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"Brush busting" is yet another grandiose Myth,fueled by them that don't shoot.....................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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I shot a 210 berger through a 8 inch thick pine tree at 750ish yards just to see what it would do, me thinks it would shoot through a sapling fairly well, unless you cant spot small trees through a 4x scope.

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Campfire Kahuna
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I've familiarity with both brush and boolits.

Center-punching timber is an issue seperate and it assuredly isn't unknown to me........................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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K
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K
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If a Berger Hunting VLD penetrates 2-3 inches BEFORE expanding, I would think it would work better penetrating "sapling" than a RN bullet designed to expand on contact.

Just saying.....

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If you've got yourself convinced that one cup/core whistles through debris better than another...roll with it.

I'd just keep it to yourself..............(grin)


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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K
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Not sure I said that anywhere.

My post was tongue in cheek.

The brush buster thing has been debunked repeatedly.

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