Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is their a PRACTICAL difference between 30-06 and 35 Whelen?

If I wanted a real step up from the 30-06 I'd bypass the 338 and 35 Whelen and build an "all-up" 8lb 375 H&H (22-23" bbl).

BTW, I've hunted a lot with 22" bbl'd 338 WM's. In fact, have had four 22" bbl'd 338 WM's, including several SS M70's. Were I you I'd cut to 23 or 22" and have a much handier rifle.

My 22" bbl'd 338's moved 250's at 2,650, 225's at 2,825+ and 210's at 2,900+... the 338 WM has a bore-volume/case-capacity ratio almost exactly the same as the 30-06 and no one would argue a 30-06 doesn't work well in a 22" barrel.

Surprisingly, the 338 WM loses very little velocity cutting four inches off...

having used both on big big game shot placement trumps all but if all things are equal the on game performance of the whelen will make you a convert, with 250FXB's ( no longer available) the bone breaking power has to be experienced to be believed. It is probably the best moose gun cartridge ever devised. I use the 3006 for calf moose and yearlings and everything on down but a medium like the 35 takes care of the rest.

The poster above (Brad) has the right idea as a step up from the 3006. my version of that is a Sako stainless synthetic in 9.3x66.

After reading all the posts, I went to the safe and counted 5 30/06s and 1 Whelen(Ruger #1). Think I'll pick up some more Whelens. Can't have too many..

Its all bullet placement.30 or 35 or anything between there is no difference.You cannot kill them any deader.I would take bullet construction into consideration for Elk,Bear,Moose more than the difference between 30 and 35 cal.If you are talking 375 and up that is a different kettle of fish.Just for argument sake ,what in North America has the 30-30 not killed?????

Now Huntz you can never achive a mass following by that line of reasoning!

At one time, I bought a 7600 (pump) in 35 whelen, when I thought the local grizzlies were becoming about as frisky as I wanted them to be, particularly around gut piles.

All I ever killed with it was a moose, but with an extra box magazine in my pocket, that's a lot of potential lead in the air. The only improvement I could think of was an aftermarket 10 round mag for the spare..... FWIW, Dutch.

This is true ... but how many carry a 30/30 for use under the worst possible circumstances? Your Moose just absorbed a poor shot from your mate ... its now running through brush and gaining distance ... 30-06 or 35Whelen?

When all goes well, there is no practical difference ... when things go wrong however that can change.
Cheers...
Con

That sounds a lot like a 375 ruger alaskan.

Agreed!!!!

I have many bullets sitting on my reloading bench:

.458 - 400 grain old barns heavy copper jacketed lead bullets
and a few hornay 500 grainers
.375 - 300 grain Partions that i load up for a friend
.358 - 250 grain Partions,speer hot cores, Hornady Spire Points
Round Noses.
.338 - 250 grain Nosler Partions, swift A frames, hornay spire
points
.308 - 220 and 180 grain Nosler Partions, and many other brands
of 30 caliber bullets to many to mention.

To me, none of them look that impressive , say, compared to the paw of a brown bear or any other really large big game animal. None of them are any bigger than the last digit of my pinky.

Compared to each other of course the 458 is the most impressive and a little bigger than the 375. To me, the 375 is not a whole lot bigger than the 35 caliber bullets. Even the 220 grain nosler partition is a pretty impressive looking bullet compaired to the 35 caliber - considerbly longer even though it is a little narrower. Again, to me, none of them are that imprssive compared to a big animal that might eat or stomp you.

I have killed and seen killed animals with every one of the above listed bullets - mostly Alaskan moose and deer. When it comes to moose they all killed well but none really impressed me as far as exit wounds except for 250 grain swift "A" Frames up close out of a .338 winchester. On moose the Nosler partions from mostly 338s and 30 calibers usually exited but were not so obvious without some looking ( a lot of this occured near low light conditions.)

Deer are a differnt matter. exit wounds were more pronounced and many cases more horiffic depending on factors that everybody talks about such as bullet construction, velocity, etc.

I have to admit my experiene is somewhat limited since I have only been on about 25 moose kills and 20-30 deer kills and 4-5 bear kills. I understand that people on this forum have way more experience than I have and their observations may vastly differ from my own.

I realized after looking at my last post that I made an error in what I said. There was one caliber I have not seen used on a big game animal: 358. I have had a 358 BLR for a while but not really taken it out for serious hunting. I also just got my 35 whelen from ER Shaw -so it has not seen any action either.

Mathew, Not sure if I'm following. Sounded at first that you had faith in you 338WM w/ 250s but thought it was too heavy for your deer hunts. If that's the case, I'll stick with my earlier post. Now it kinda sounds like you've lost faith in all that you've got because of that bear. If you're talking a stopping rifle, I'd say that one should look at something in the 416s or better. If I were hunting a big bear today, I'd not feel short changed shooting any cartridge that has a good 250gr bullet going around 2500fps or better. But, if it were my job to back up my daughter while she hunts a big bear, and I were totally responsible for getting her out of trouble, I'd grab a stopping rifle.

Otherwise, I'll stick with my first post.

Good Luck!

GaryVA,

I have not lost faith in any of my rifles. Although I do feel more confident in brownbear country with my 338 than I do with a 30-06. Last year I hunted deer on Hinchinbrook and Monteghue Islands (noted for aggressive brown bear) with a 30-06, 220 grain nosler partion bullets chronoghraped at 2400 fps. I felt pretty confident with this load. This particular rifle is relegated to throw 220 grain nosler dead on at 100 yds, 180 grain noslers (2550 fps) 2" high at 100 yds and 150 grain hornady SSTs (2700 fps) 3" high at 100 yds. It is stainless steel and feels just right. For some reason i gravitate to this rifle a lot. None of these loads are wizbang and are loaded more to 308 winchester levels but they are very accurate and I don't have to hold my mouth funny. I can use just about any hold pressure on the stock and the bullet seems to always go where i expect it to. On the other hand my 338 needs to be held rather firmly and I must perfectly square up to for best accuracy. This has never been an issue in the field because most my shots except one has been under a 150 yards.

I can shoot my 338 as accurately as my 30-06s on the bench and field positions AT THE RANGE. However, to me, my 338 is not as forgiving of shooter error. AT THE RANGE I can stand on a flat surface and shoot accurately off hand (relitivly speaking), AT THE RANGE I can take a good sitting postion or kneeling postion. AT THE RANGE I can square up and use perfect shooting fundmentals. In the Field I do not always have this luxtury. Sometimes Im doing my best just to keep form sliding down a hill or mountain side. 30-06s and my new 35 whelen just seem more forgiving.

My shooting conditions vary a lot with very few shots over 200 yds. Most of my shots are off hand. Sometimes I shoot deer from a boat( a lot of waive action). Rifle familiarity, trigger break become very important when timing a shot off a boat with wave action. Of course shooting fundementals are important no matter what conditions you shoot from. Switching rifles is a pain. Familiarity is becoming more important to me so I am trying to gravitate to one rifle does all (deer to chance incounter with BB). If it was only Brown bear I was after it would be an easy choice for me: 338 Winchester Mag, 250 grain Swift A Frames and a hunting parter at my side to back me up.

Before I got my 35 whelen I looked hard at the CZ 375s mainly due to magazine capacity (5)and good reputation. I went into the sportsmans wharehouse and hefted one. It definely had quaility but was it was much heavier than I expected.

I got the 35 whelen to sort of bridge the gap. I wanted higher magazine capacity just in case I might need it (you never know). I also wanted something that be foregiving during recoil and it is. AND I wanted something that would duplicate my 338 up to 300 yards using a 250 grain bullet. I wanted something to mainly use for deer but used on a bear if need be. The Whelen just came back a little heavier than I anticpated. I am going deer hunting in a few weeks and will hunt with either a whelen, or 30-06 in brown bear country. Haven't decided yet. Still going through these stupid mental gymnastics. Lots of dry firing practice between the two rifles. It is just the model 70 FW 30-06 is stainless steel and feels less clunkier. It actuallity it feels perfect in my hands and always has.

I reload for lots of rifles (mine and friends), lots of pistols and revolvers. It gets mind boggling with all the powders, bullets ext. I have to constantly change my powder measure settings, bullet dies. Sometimes I just wish I could be caliber ignorant and just go hunting (which I do anyways) . Most of my friends use 30-06s with 180 grain corelockt, ballistic tips, sierra boatails and nosler ballistic tips. They always get their animals without a problems. To pharaphrase one of the posters (BullGoose) most of the performance lies between our ears. he might be right?

Another poster (CON) mentioned a friend of his using 225 grain 35 caliber bullets on deer. I have no doubt a 225 grain bullet traveling ~2700 fps will make a good exit wound and is better than a 30-06 (on a deer). My loads hower feature 250 grain nosler partitions at 2400 fps (chronographed) with a max load of IMR 4064. The tissue devistation at these velocites might not be much better than say a 225 grain 35 caliber bullet at 2700 fps or even 180 grain 30-06. I don't know....

Have you given any thought to converting your '06 into a lightweight 338-06 using the exact same bullets as you load for the 338WM? You should get ample velocity out of the 338-06 and it would simplify your reloading and you'd end up with an extra round in the mag box.

GaryVA, I have thought of converting one of my 30-06s to 338-06. A few things crossed my mind on this conversion:

1. It is my understanding most .338 caliber bullets are made for Magnum velocities, at least according to most reloading techs I've talked to on the phone. Noslers might be an exception
2. Speer is the only manual that lists close to 2500 fps and one load above for the 338-06. my newest nosler manual is much more concervitive.
3. with the OBAMA scare I wanted something that could shoot cast bullets in an emergency since I have a lot of wheel weights on hand. I bought 250 gr. RCBs molds, sizers and everything to cast my own bullets. Not sure if they make gas checks for 338. I do know for sure they make them for 35 cal. since I have many on hand.
4. Last, but not least. to my eye a 220 grain nosler in a 30-06 looks just about as impressive as a 250 grain 338. To get good performance (expansion) out of a 338-06 I might have to go to a 225 grain for the velocity advantage -if in fact 338 calibers are designed for magnum velocities.

GaryVA, Since I was not sure what kind of velocities I could reach with either caliber I opted with 35 caliber since most bullets are designed around Whelen velocities and should expand at lower velocities. Also, since the Whelen 35 caliber 250 grain bullet has a shorter bearing surface i was hoping to push it faster(with accuracy) than the 2400 fps I have reached so far.

I am pondering the idea of having the whelen barrel turned down by a good gunsmith to lighten it up. This will have to happen after hunting season though. I have also thought of changing powers to up the velocity a little.

Mathew.

In answer to your question. Yes.

WN

Bigger diameter kills better, higher velocity kills farther.

I do not own any 30-06's or 35 Whelens, but I am a fan of the 338-06.

In almost every circumstance you are much better off carrying the rifle you like and are very comfortable with in an adequate cartridge vs a rifle you don't, chambered in a perceived better cartridge.

"Adequate" is the basis for many heated discussions on this forum, as is "perceived better". I know I have been guilty of splitting frog's hairs, or argueing ballistic minutia more times than I care to admit.

I consider a 30-06 to be extremely adequate, and the 35 whelen perceived better because of the bigger diameter in the situation you described.

There is absolutely no substitute for being confident in your rifle and the ability to handle a sticky situation. My guess is the guy carrying the rifle is the weak link.

SH,
You have to be color blind. M&M ever contact you to consult on colors?

You may consider something along the lines of this M77. I had sold my previous 338-06 and was preparing to build another when I decided to give the Hawkeye 338RCM a try. I worked this rifle over as a project shown in this thread:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...oject_Hawkeye_338_Ruger_Comp#Post3060014

She turned out simply outstanding. There are ample bread and butter loads pushing 250grain bullets in the 2450fps range, and there are some good hot loads pushing 250s around 2550fps range. The editor of RealGuns worked a bunch of loads with this rifle using 338mag bullets all the way up to the big 275 Swifts. They worked out a couple good 250grain loads running around 2575fps using Woodleighs. It's one heck of a rifle in a short action compact package.

Something to ponder:)

Best!

GaryVA,

Very nice rifle. The ballistics look excellent. I read through all your posts on this project. I too am a tinkerer. Did you mangage to get the fifth round to fit?

Yes, I had to alter the follower and pocket, there was just barely enough room to make it work. I cannot say enough about this overall package. The cartridge and Rugers in general are nothing to write home about, but the entire package is well thought out and can be made to work exceedingly well. It definitely filled the void left by my old 338-06. I could see a stainless version of this rifle sitting in a lightweight Brown Precision stock as being one heck of a versatile compact BIG game wilderness rifle.

Best:)