Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns Which SxS to buy?

Ok I was up in Hartford today so I decided to stop and look at the gun you think is nice. Did you look at the screws? They look like someone used a cheisle to remove them. Did you see the piece missing out of the stock at the action? And last did you see the metal by the hinge pin that was guaged in two places? This was all noticed from the gun still being in the showcase. I can only imagine what one would find from really looking at it.

What I saw at the Cabela's EH gunroom. A lot of factory guns from the everyday makers, (these guns would all just be normal rack guns at say Hoffmans, CT Woods and Water, Newington Gun Exchange, North Cove Outfitters, and the list goes on. The best gun in there in my opinion was the Custom Mauser .280 (minus the screws being mutalated) in the front window of the gun room before you walk in on the right side of the entery way. The cases in there are fulled with average guns for the most part. The few nice doubles that were in there again were over priced.

To each his own, but I'd not take two M21s of either persuasion to one Piotti. No knock on the M21, for what it is; it's just not in the same league, and I'm not speaking of adornment.

Don't get me wrong they (Piotti) are nice, but not $20,000 nice for a BSEE. Your right they are not in the same league the Model 21 is a better gun either CSMC or Winchester then the Piotti Box Lock. It is an over priced A&D action nice engraving but that doesn't make for a better gun. The M21 is a workhorse that is tried and true over many many years in all conditions. Then again I love American classics and would prefer them to even the Englis best guns. But that is just me.

We'll agree to disagree, I guess. I like the 21, but believe it's over blown in the strength business. It's strong because of so much steel; strength not needed is a waste. I like the feel of them, but there is no comparison to the feel, fit and finish of the Piotti, BSEE or other models.

Yes, the basis of the action on the Piotti is A&D, a proven boxlock found on all manner of doubles, high and low end. The key is the integrated package, barrels, ejectors, stock, and how they are put together and balanced. This is where the Piotti shines. The Piotti feels like a cool drink of water on a hot day after handling most 21s, to me anyhow. I'd make a similar argument about a Fox in comparison to a M21...

Your are right about the feel and I am going to assume that you prefer the feel because you are a smaller guy then I am. At 6'4" 250lbs I actually like the heavier feel and balance of the M21. It slows my swing down nice. When I was speaking of durablity I wasn't just speaking of the extra metal it truly is the overall package and a very durable gun. Again for the money I could find better buys then the Piotti in an A&D action with the same feel and balance. But that still doesn't make the Piotti bad gun. I just don't see the value to quality in it over other's.

GF1 I love Fox as well. But I really like the highend Lefever's. Parker's are nice as Iticha NID's. To include New Ithica Classic NID's. I own two of those one 20ga and one 28ga. It is ashame Lamboy couldn't keep it together. Though the quality in the parts were not the best, I believe the American made ones to be a little better then the Italian ones. One thing I respect in Tony is he makes quality and is keeping some of the old classics alive and avaliable to us. I only wish I could afford an AH Fox or Parker that he is making for Rem.

Last weekend I found a old sxs at a local flea market. No name on it or markings anywhere. I will post a picture to see if you guys can help me identify it. I only paid $150 for it and it works great so even if its a pc of crap manufacturer I couldn't go wrong with the price

Pull it apart(remove barrels by removing the forend) and look at the markings on the barrel flats (flat bottoms of the barrels where they mate with reciever inside the forend), then check the "water table" (flat top of reciever that mates with the barrels). There should be plenty of markings stamped there which will help identify the maker and/or the nation where it was made, plus more details of its chambers, chokes, etc. Post what you find, or good pix of them. We should be able to help identify.

Cabela's in Kearny had a couple of Fausti's in 20 gauge on clearance for $1000. Don't know much about them but they looked very well put together and handled very nice. They also both had very good wood in them.

I've come to a time where i think taste in guns is about like that in women--while everyone will recognize a "10" there is a lot of room for variation below that in personal taste, before you get to a "she-has-a-great-personality but is a 2" that everyone also recognizes as a tool.

As JB mention there are nice German SxSs; there are also a lot of nice Spanish SxSs (ie AyA) and Italian doubles like Beretta. Ive two Bs, a 470 and a 471 Silver Hawk in a 12 and 20 respectively and a 28g in an AyA. They are on the low end of medium priced doubles but nice and very serviceable.

I keep an auto loader around just so I won't forget to appreciate them.

Oh, while I'm just a pheasant hunter I will not have a heavy gun; you certainly don't need one in the chukar country I've seen and you don't need a 12 g for pheasants. I would consider a 20 g which if on the appropriate sized frame shouldn't move the needle much past 6 lbs if that.

Give me 2-3 model 21's any day over an over priced italian shotgun. I just dont see the value in the piotti and its certainly not a "better" gun.

Here is my Bernardelli Premier Gamecock in 12 ga IC & IM single trigger , auto ejectors. I killed the three grouse on the left and my buddy killed got the two on the right and i killed all the quail. He never connected on any of the quail. This photo was taken a couple of years back just can't find any quail these days.

Many good choices mentioned, especially some of the Spanish listings.

A CSM Model 21 in their scaled down 28ga frame would be high on my list. However, if one is not against going high end, you could always consider one of these. Click on photo gallery for some additional views. I've had one in my hands. They are sweet.

http://www.krieghoff.com/ki/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=106

Winchester M-21, now and forever.

If you can find a good used Winchester Mod. 23, I would recommend it. Since they are no longer made, prices seem to be creeping up on these, but they should also be a good long-term investment, like a lot of discontinued Winchesters.

I just gave mine, a Pigeon Grade XTR, to my son for Christmas.

Thanks to all for the input. What's driving me crazy is I can't seem to find any to actually hold and feel. Being in So Cal does make that difficult. I'll keep looking and please, keep posting your thoughts.
Cheers and Happy New Year!
Ed

Ed, take a look at the shotguns listed at Hill Rod and Gun in Bozeman, Montana (www.hillrodandgun.com). Charlie, the owner, has a pretty good mix of English, German and Italian guns and his prices are hard to beat. I've purchased 4 shotguns from him over the last 7 or 8 years and he has always treated me right.

Not sure exactly where they are relative to you but you might try IvoryBead ...they have a website also.