Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 6.5 x 55 Swede vs. 30-06 - on the largest NA game

Capitalist, Teddy Roosevelt was long dead by 1935... Heck of a trick, stopping that rhino!

That makes it even all the more impressive that he did it with a .357 magnum!

When your name is Mr President, maybe you can get the good stuff a bit earlier......

65BR, are you trying to decide which to take on a hunt for all three animals? I know you have a lot of mid-caliber rifles and shoot a lot.

Of the two, I'd say '06 with a tough bullet. If it's a special hunt, I'd say that's a good excuse to get a larger caliber: 8mm, .33, .35, 9.3, .375, etc...

Jordan Smith;
Good day to you Jordan, I hope this finds you and yours well and keeping warm enough on the eastern slope of the Rockies.

What I've noticed in doing postmortem exams on deer/black bear/sheep - while I'm gutting them or while we cut them up in our garage - is that there is very little difference in tissue damage between a 6.5x55 using a 130gr/140gr bullet and a .30 caliber 165gr/180gr bullet.

I'll add there have been enough .277" kills thrown in that I'd put it or anything reasonably in between in the same group - as an educated hypothesis.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd built a 6.5 Swede for my late father and he passed it back to us before he died. Our eldest has claimed it now and between the two of them I'd say it's accounted for between 18 and 24 deer - I'd have to look in my hunting diary to be sure.

I used to hunt with an '06 and using one load with 180gr Hornady bullets I had of string of something like 16-18 one shot kills on deer and one sheep. My wife used a .308 and a .308 Norma and I also used my own .308 Norma and had a .300 WM for 10 years, so I'm no stranger to what a .308" bullet will do to deer/black bear/sheep sized animals.

Somewhere below the 6.5mm/130gr range there is a bit of a difference. For instance, on a couple deer shot with our youngest daughter's .250AI, the 100gr Hornady bullets left a bit less of a path through the carcass. Not much mind you and not enough to quit using it, but perhaps a wee bit less. Now a 117gr Hornady out of a .25-06 looked like a .277"/.308" standard amount of tissue damage.

Again, those observations are from deer/black bear/sheep either shot in my presence or cut up by me, so moose and elk, which are what the OP asked about may well be entirely different and there could be a slight difference show up.

Well that's just one guy's thoughts on the matter based on what we've seen shot and or what we've cut up, which is admittedly not a huge sample, but I'd say roughly 150 deer/black bear/sheep sized animals over the last couple decades anyway.

I hope you and yours have a good weekend Jordan. Stay warm and watch for those horseshoe shaped Chinook clouds to bring you a bit of relief.

Regards,
Dwayne

With this comparison the American beats the Swede. Not by much but clearly "better".

Thanks, Dwayne! I'm sitting at the window looking at the "Chinook arch" right now!

I appreciate your comments, as it does shed some light on the topic. I wonder if moose and elk-sized critters would show the disparity between the two bullets a bit better than deer-sized stuff, or not.

Have a great weekend!

Jordan Smith;
You are always most welcome sir. It's always a pleasure to "talk" with you and I enjoy your posts very much.

Regarding your question, I'd think it sure might be possible that the disparity could show up in larger bodied animals, we'll say 400lb carcass and up. Again though that is a guess and that only on my part.

I shot a few deer/black bear with a .338 way back in the day and decided it didn't show enough difference from the '06/180gr combination I'd been using to warrant continuing the beatings it gave me.

My gut feeling then and still now, is that if I lived in the Kootenays, Ft. St. John or Whitehorse where bigger carcasses are on the menu annually, I might have kept that barrel on the Ruger instead of converting it to a .308Norma.

Then again, the locals up there seem to kill a lot with .270's and the like, don't they?

I'm glad you've sighted the arch cloud Jordan. There's only so much cold a person can stand before they think they're in Saskatchewan!

Regards,
Dwayne

You cannot deny reality. The 30-06 is a bigger, more powerful round than the 6.5x55. It makes bigger holes and produces more damage in game animals, therefore, it kills animals more quickly than the 6.5x55. Both can be loaded to give deep penetration, so both will kill animals large and small. The 30-06 is just bigger and does more damage. It also produces about twice the recoil of the smaller 6.5x55. Both work. Pick your poison.

I dont know squat about a 357 in Africa in the 30s, but could it have been TR jr?

1984, actually whittled down my safe ALOT over the years and mostly using 6.5s of late, some 6BRs recently. Sold my 338/06 asap after Rem had to Re-Attach the handle on the bolt that just fell off on the first shot after a CO elk/Mulie hunt.

Contemplated another 350 (buddy borrowed, laid a 10pt WT low, HAD to have it- so I obliged, so that 77 MK2 and a prior mint 600 both went down the road). Also on the 'A List' for a gun for a potential trip to Alaska, is MAYBE another 338/06, but perhaps to try something new to me, a 9.3x62.

If I wanted to K.I.S.S. for a mid bore, a 338 WM or 375 H&H for factory rifle/ammo options, and either would be an M70 likely, but ABSOLUTELY not a 700.

Can you imagine standing there w/a Bolt handle in your hand scratching your head, if a Bear is bearing down on you?

I wonder how many Bear have been killed well, w/say a 270 and 150 or 160 Partition? As one would assume it's been used more often on them just because of popularity, and one might think a similarly loaded Swede might offer similar results. Just thinking.

No doubt, Elk and Big Bears would soak up more lead/copper than Moose, or at least potential travel further. Living in the South does not afford me the experience you guys have on those large game - appreciate all the feedback.

I'd not likely tromp around solo w/a 6.5, but if I had my partner next to me a larger rifle, I might just take aim if it were in hand and a good opportunity was present - not REAL close - by choice mind you.

Odds are I may well carry two rifles, a 6.5 and something from .338 - .366, if I can get to AK.

Appreciate all comments.

I can't even remember where I read/heard that story; it was obviously some source that I respected, as I never did my own research. Now, I can't find any reference to a .357 killing a rhino by anyone.

Many apologies for the absence of due-diligence. My main point was more directed at our propensity for ever growing "minimums". Like maddog likes to say about his .45-70 "bouncing off" game animals! Though I haven't blooded my Swede, yet, the testing I've done with it has impressed me greatly. If its all I had (and I had time to shoot it) when a big bear attacked, I don't think I'd throw it, and run! That said, I'd gladly take it in pursuit of black bear.

So did you hear about when Ingwe dropped a woolly mammoth with a pellet gun?

Peter Capstick wrote in his book about a lady client who had a pretty little Mauser. She had to shoot a charging lion to get into some club. The professional hunters thought she was nuts, but Capstick took her.

He started her on plains game, and no matter the range, she killed every animal with her first shot. He'd say the guides were calling her "piga kuffa" or something like that meaning "shoot dead." Now for the charging lion.

One charging lion coming up. Capstick finds a lion and sends his 2 trackers Silent and Invisible to throw rocks at it. I bet the NAACP would be very unhappy with this I'm sure. They get the lion miffed and run back to Capstick. The lion follows and the lady shoots the lion between the eyes.

I have a 7mm Mauser and I always think of that, especially when I'm reloading it. I do get a gut feeling though, that I'd feel safer with a .30-06. Heck, I can put a 200 grain bullet in the "06" with more powder. I make my Brother's loads. He shot a 300 pound Maine black bear with a 180 grain Speer Grand slam out of his .308 and flipped it completely over. He said it rolled down a hill growling, but never got up. That's what I want.

i'm sure the swede would work, but there is no doubt the 06' works better. they are not equal. one is better than the other, and it is the 06'. case capacity would be the key.

6.5x55 Se has been used for decades against brown bear (european version) and the polar bear for decades but in those days nobodys knew about better calibers and the bears didnt wear kevlar ...!!!!

I love the quarter bore and the 6.5 on paper sounds pretty good. But if its big mean and bites back there is no replacement for displacement IMO.

I thought this rubbish started in January?

I'll simply add these "anecdote" which I've pulled out of various moose I've killed with generally broadside, shoulder-area shots:



30-06; 180 Woodleigh, 25 yards through both scapula; walked a few yards and went down



Onside scapula of moose above







left: 340 Wtby; 250 Grand Slam, 200 yards through shoulder including one scapula. This moose stood with its leg hitched while we put three more bullets in it. 200 BALTP on the right was one which was place a bit further back through muscle and rib.

225 XFB, second from left; 340 Wtby, 200 yards, through both humerus upper ends.

middle: 170 Core-Lokt; 30-30 Win, first shot; into muscles below scapula, around 90 yards. Second shot spined him.




300 Speer Uni-Cor, 45-70; punched both scapula; 40 yards. Moose walked a few yards and tipped over.



Second and fourth shots, 150 yards; 6.5X55 Swedish, 140 Partition. First and thirds were 140 A-Frame. Passed through muscle below scapula. A-Frames didn't make the far hide where these were. Moose went down with 180 Core-lokt (30-06) through both lungs.



235 TSX, 375 Wildcat; 150 yards. Moose went down at the shot; got up right away for one more.

[img]http://www.hunt101.com/data/561/medium/IMG_07381.JPG[/img]

220 Core-Lokt, 30-06; 100 yards. Moose was running when shot; loped a few more steps and fell.

Obviously no one else was (from here) there to actually see how they worked, but perhaps there are a few bits of useful info to be gleaned.

Good stuff there.

There's more, but these are all basic, classic chest shots where a bullet was recovered. There have been others where complete pass throughs have resulted including several with the '06, and plain old cup and cores even. Smaller calibers work; they just don't work as well as universally as bigger stuff seems to. On a chest shot on moose - and probably in general, a bigger hole in at least one side along with a hole either in the diaphragm or other side of the chest cavity seem to collapse the lungs better than smaller holes which will drain the animals blood until it suffocates or drowns. It really doesn't matter (for killing) whether the animal bleeds out if the lungs can't inflate.