Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 6mm Remington 100 grain bullet for elk hunting.

Has anyone used a 6mm 100 grain round to kill elk?

by 6mm do you mean 6mm Remington or just a 6mm 100gr bullet?

I have not personally but know a few people who have killed them with a 100 gr partition out of a .243. It is supposedly quite lethal. I would opt for the old style grand slam in 100 gr and not think twice about it.

6mm Remington 100 grain limited to 300 yards or less.

yes I've used and seen various 6mm's take elk, and some of them were with 100 grain bullets. U do your part and it'll do it's just fine.

Side note, you may wanna change the topic starter to say something about "100 grain bullets" instead of "black AR" as you may get a few more people to answer the question about the bullet as they may see the "black AR" part have no experience with the rifle and move on past. Poing being the 100 grain bullet pertains to the question and the black ar part doesn't. Just trying to help you get more answers is all. I know that Alpine Creek has shot a fair number of elk with his 243 and 100 Nozlers.

We've used the 6/06 to take a few elk with 85's to 95's and no issues either.

Dober

Thanks Mark, I didn't think when I posted.

Cut that in aprox. half (150-200 yards) and only shoot on broadside, behind the shoulder shots, and you will probably be OK.

I would use one only if there were NO other options and then be very selective on my shots.

tshunter58-how many elk have you seen taken with such a combo?

Thx
Dober

My neighbor had one and after disaster after disaster,moved up in caliber...I agree with tshunter58...It is not an all around Elk caliber and by all around,I mean taking any shot that will get to the vitals as Elk hunting goes.

Broadside only or head shots..Most any caliber/bullet works.

Jayco

A good friend of mine has been hunting elk for a long time...about 40 years out of the same camp to be precise, with about that many elk to his credit.

He's had disaster after disaster as well with his .243...disasterous to the elk he shoots with it.

Over 70 and still getting it done with the .243...as well as the old school pack frame.



His latest victim of a .243 disaster, the spike was hatin' it...(sorry best pic I could get while lending a hand with the packing).

BuzzH

That's really my point in the last few post about smaller calibers and exploding bullets on Elk.Someone like your 70 year old buddy has already paid his dues hunting and knows when and where to shoot as well as one of my wood getting buddies at 71 and still getting firewood to sell.He has killed more Elk than anyone I know and with a 25-06/Nosler combo.But,he is out there every day/knows where they are and has the hunting experience to know his 25-06 can't take some of the shots a larger caliber can and his heart rate doesn't rise to the sounds of the woods..

It's hard to advise something that small to a beginner Elk hunter who hasn't paid his dues or have the experience that some here have and that's what I was getting at with my young neighbor.He wasn't in his 70's with a ton of hunting knowledge behind him.

Jayco

I'll preface this with saying I've never killed an elk, but I've killed a pile of deer, and many of them with a .243 Win and 100 gr. Partitions. From virtually any angle I KNOW that Partition will penetrate the vitals, I've had more than a couple that were severe quartering towards and either had exits on the opposite ham or bullets on the skin on the off-side ham. I wouldn't hesitate to take the .243 after elk with 100 gr. Partitions, or I suppose a Barnes would work as well. That being said, the last few years I've been breaking in a couple of .260 Remingtons. I'd stoke that thing with 140 gr. Partitions and feel even more confident with slightly more recoil than the .243. The .243 will get it done if you need it to.

I always thought about using a smaller caliber for elk and just all around shooting. But I keep going back to my 300 wby magnum. Seems when ever I carry my 7mm-08 there are no elk around. I bring my 300 wby and elk are everywhere. Why is that?

I know shot placement is where its at. So do I really need the higher priced premium bullets in a 243 to kill an elk? I know one guy who shoots core locks out of a 257 wby mag and elk just die in their tracks.

Okay..Since this is a gun writer type forum with some greats here,let's see what some other names have to say about the 6MM/243 on Elk.

JJ Hack

On the surface it would seem that with that many 308 diameter cartridges no wonder I feel this way. Yes but..... It is as likely to work against functionality as well. With that frequency we would likely see equal problems. But that is simply not the case. The 7mm mag compares in killing power nicely with the 30/06, however when it's a 300 mag in the mix there is simply nothing at all similar except recoil and muzzle blast. The 300 mag is a far more lethal cartridge then the 7mm mag. At this point in my career no matter who tries to convince me otherwise, I'm not buying!

In any case there are almost always tracking problems with .243/6mm/.257 diameter bullets. There are close to zero problems with the .338/358/375 diameter bullets.

Wayne Van Zwoll

To destroy vital organs, the bullet must penetrate. To penetrate, it must retain enough mass after mushrooming to overcome the pull of tissue slowing it down. When it gets to the vitals, it must be big enough and heavy enough to make a fatal wound and keep going. Whether it stops just under the far hide or pops through is of academic importance, perhaps relevant to the bullet maker, but certainly dependent on shot angle, distance, velocity and what bones and muscles impede the bullet inside. All that matters to you happens before exit.

For this reason, the .24s are not ideal for elk hunting. In open country at moderate ranges with good presentations, strong 6mm bullets can be deadly. But in the catch-as-catch-can of elk hunting in elk cover, they fail. You need never cripple an elk, no matter what cartridge you use, if you limit your shots to those sure to kill. The trouble with the 6mms is that they require you to pass up shots you could easily make with heavier bullets.

Still, when I can't pick the shot and I must shoot the elk, those delightful, accurate -- and versatile -- 6mms stay in the rack.



Craig Boddington

Those looking for low-recoil efficiency can start with the .243. Since it's the only really popular 6mm, we'll discard all the rest. However, I tend to consider the .243 an "expert's deer cartridge" rather than an ideal beginner's round, and I strongly believe it's best suited for small- to medium-size deer.

Jayco

sounds like your neighbor needs to learn how to shoot and spent more time at the range if he keeps crippling Elk. Going up in cal doesn't make up for poor marksmanship. The 243 or 6mm will kill any Elk if you shoot it straight.

If the shot is spot on at a mild angle but the bullet does not have the weight or design to penetrate,the results are going to be less than spectacular.That's where the experience of hunters like Buzz H's friend come in.

As Wayne Van Zwoll said.

The trouble with the 6mms is that they require you to pass up shots you could easily make with heavier bullets.

My friend learned that and moved up in caliber for his Elk hunting.Broadside shots are hard to come by these days so in Elk hunting,use enough gun and bullet or tag stew is in order or worse yet,a wounded Elk.

Just my opinion and some others as I quoted.

Jayco.

Hate to bring actual experience to an internet forum, but.....
Over the last 50 years with the 243 I have seen both over the shoulder and thru the scope one shot kills on elk everywhere from powder burn close in the timber to... well better not say or some twit's liable to get their panties twisted. Only know of a couple dozen out of the entire bunch that used anything other than a cup and core hornady 100 gr bullet. The other bullet was the Nosler partition and that's because that's what my Moms rifle shot the best...
As with any cartridge YOU MUST put the bullet where it will do the most good, and anybody that thinks you need something big to shoot thru an elks paunch and kill it probably haven't shot enough elk to matter.
Bottom line yes the 100 gr bullet from a 243/6mm remington will kill elk dead, and as with a 338 if you blow ones hind leg off you still got a mess....
Some of you bonafide experts could tell the old guy in this picture that a 100 gr 6mm bullet isn't anygood except up close and on small elk, and he'ld laugh in your face.

Killed seven elk with the 6mm Rem, five with the 100 gr. Partition two with out. From 20 yards to 300 only had to shoot one twice but wasn't using the Partitions on that one.

Will it kill elk? yes. Is there better choices? Yes

I personally think a man who has limited time to hunt elk should use the biggest rifle he can shoot comfortable and accurate. The best Elk round in my opinion starts with the 338 cal. I can't remember who said this, but it is still good advice when it comes to Elk. (Use a rifle chambered in a cal that will get the job done when everything goes wrong, not just when everything goes right.)

You can kill them with a 40 grain varmmint bullet and a .223 with proper placement. Or a .22 short, for that matter.

Personally, I think anything in .243" caliber is a better choice for experts and those who are willing to take a pass than newbies or someone that is determined to pull the trigger.

Never said it wouldn't kill Elk,just said there are better choices out there.If someone has to ask this question,then there not as experienced as the ones like R-13 and Buzz H posted.

I am thinking not about old cranky Ranchers(smiling R-13) and there field experiences living the life unlike a huge majority here that have limited time to hunt and scout and usually pay big bucks to go hunting and ask if this or that works....

I to have seen the 243 kill Elk,more than once or twice but there are much better choices out there for the average hunter.


Jayco

From someone who has used it, this pretty much says it all.

Scenerio: You are presented with a 300 yard shot at a world record elk. You have at your side a 243/6mm and a 300 win mag. You shoot both equally well. Which are you gonna pick up? Should a lowly cow get any less respect?

If being under gunned is showing disrespect and the converse is true, I am very respectful as I am usually over gunned.

re�spect   /rɪˈspɛkt/ Show Spelled
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2. relation or reference: inquiries with respect to a route.
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4. deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.
5. the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.
6. respects, a formal expression or gesture of greeting, esteem, or friendship: Give my respects to your parents.
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8. Archaic . a consideration.
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a. to visit in order to welcome, greet, etc.: We paid our respects to the new neighbors.
b. to express one's sympathy, esp. to survivors following a death: We paid our respects to the family.
16. with respect to, referring to; concerning: with respect to your latest request.

I use to hang out with an old rancher that lived in North West Montana. While I knew him in the 70's and 80's Pass on in '88. He would collect his elk and every thing else with an old 243 that he bought new sometime around 1960. He told me something that had stuck with me and my shooting ever since, No matter how far the game is close the distance by half before you shoot. As for bullets its easier on them when all you have to do is punch a hole in the ribs, put a hole in the lungs or the heart and it don't matter a wit what you shot it with. I never shot an elk with a 6mm but I did collect a couple with a 6.5 x 55 and a 7 x 57. These days I shoot a 7mm RM mostly do to the rifle I bought some years back. We tend to go with much bigger cartridges these days, this is due to a couple of things, hunting seasons are short, and we don't have the time to be picky about distance and shot angles, like in the past. And well its tough just getting a shot these days due to the wisdom of re introducing wolves. No a 6 mmm would not be my go to rifle for elk, I would hunt with a 6.5 mm, just because I like just a bit more bullet weight than what you get with a 6mm. There is always going to be a trade off on this, Smaller Cartridges can be housed in lighter guns that are reasonable in the recoil and shootablity for most. The heavier cartridges, need heavier guns to keep recoil with in reason. Since 1980 my rife of choice for elk and moose has been a 338 winchester, I am 30 years older now, and I rather carry a lighter rifle, so a 7.5 lb 7mm RM works for me. a 338 housed in that light a rifle would be a hand full to shoot well. At least that is how it is with me. In the end, we end up with either a 270 or a 30-06 performance and recoil. Somethings never change.

Thanks everyone for the great insights on using a 243 or 6mm for elk. Sounds like it will kill elk but as most said there are better choices.

It never ceases to amaze me the hunter today who really believe the 6mm and 243 aren't enough to even hunt Whitetail with. I would bet more Elk have been killed with the 30-30 Win than any other round out there. No matter what you use to hunt Elk with just be aware of your rifle and your own limitations.

Kind of weirdo to see an elk on the lope flats like that, private land by chance?

Thx
Dober

one of those Elk who must have lost his way.

Well I know my brother in law shot many a mule deer and 17 plus bull elk with his model 70 Winchester .243 caliber. I waited over 4 decades before I oppted to try my luck with a 25-06 that got the job done.

However, I truly believe considering types of shots and yardage to boot, that the .243 caliber should really stop at mule deer. I myself would never grab anything in the way of a rifle caliber less than the 6.5/06 with 140 grain bullet or better yet, those 160 grain bullets.

Now maybe some of the hunters can shrug my idea of ethics out the window and that is their previlege but I'll stick to my guns on elk calibers, thus starting with the 6.5/06 then go upward.

Yea one of those good ideas the game and fish had gone bad. Turn a bunch of elk loose on a ranch and then treat them like transplanted pheasants. Worked good till the ranch changed hands. Then those transplanted elk didn't get shot off due to new owners charging for hunting etc.
Meantime they spread out and the Game and Fish really screwed up and forgot to manage them. Herd grew to about 5-600 and spread from Nebraska to Laramie Peak.
See Wyoming elk area 3.
Elk and private land like that don't mix. Nothing to put you in a better mood than having 150 of the sorry bastards grubbin your alfalfa to the dirt , 10 license for the area, and a dumb ass biologist telling you you ain't nuthin but a pickupseat biologist.

But I've got better horns hangin on the wall that was shot on the Upper Green River with a 243..

If it was the only arm I owned, OK, but be very conservative on ones shots. Personally though, I'd put some effort into finding something with a bit more uuummmph.

What would be the difference, if both are loaded with TSX? The bullet will penetrate plenty from each.

I'd pick the 243 because I know that I would shoot it much better than the 300 and have much more confidence in it.

Nah, I have a 243 that has now accounted for 9 elk--7 by me, and 2 more in the hands of youngsters. I would strongly recommend a premium bullet. I use 100gr Partitions.

Broadside shots out to 300 yds have all been pass-throughs, quartering away or towards me the bullets have stopped in the off shoulder.

15 years ago, I did watch a hunter shoot a bull 3 times with 100 gr Core-Lokts at about 40 yds. The little 4 point bull never moved until the third shot--then he took a step backwards and keeled over.

The 243 ain't a shoulder breaker, I wouldn't try a last ditch Texas Heart shot at a big bull going dead away, and I would be leery at taking a 400 yd shot. But all the 100 gr Partitions recovered look just like all the different caliber Partitions I've dug out of deer/elk/pronghorns/bears/sheep over the years.

My 11 year old is kind've smallish for his age, but when he goes elk hunting with Grampa next year, he'll be packing that 243.......he's the reason I originally bought the rifle in the first place......

That rifle has good elk karma.

Now I'm gonna have to buy a 243 for my own or break out my "big" 270's........



Casey

My Wife has killed many elk with her 243. She is picky about the shots she takes and is deadly accurate.

My 17 year old brother shot a bull this year with a .243 using a 95 grain slug. He dropped it with one shot and he didn't move an inch after he hit the ground. I would not hesitate if you feel confident in your shooting ability, but isn't that how it should be with all calibers?

There is no doubt a .243/6mm bullet can kill an elk � that has been proven many times.

Best choice for most people/situations? Nope, not even close IMO.

Since I started hunting elk in 1982 I have seen more elk wounded and lost by hunters using a .243/6mm than probably all other calibers combined. A .243/6mm wouldn�t be my first choice.

Good Lord, what a thread. I am sorry but it upsets me that some folks always try to see what the lightest combination of caliber and bullet that can be used to take an animal as big as an elk. That falls into the category of "stunt hunting" in my book.

You can wish for perfect broadside shots at 150 yards or less but you damn well should PLAN on other eventualities as well! Same argument on bullets. I don't choose a bullet that works when things are perfect, I choose a bullet that will perform when things are NOT perfect. The same rationale should be applied to your choice of caliber.

Good Lord...these are big animals! Is a 243 or 6mm the best a person has to shoot with? If so, go buy something bigger.

Flame away.....give it your best shot. I still have my asbestos underwear on from last time.

I am been hunting 70 years yet but I killed elk with 338 win, 300 wby mag, 30-06, 7mm mag, and 300 win mag. I just never used anything I considered smaller, like a 243. I believe I know where to hit an Elk to make it drop. Some people tell me the older you are more you want to use something smaller to shoot. I not sure about that. My 300 wby has been getting the job done for 30 years and will continue to kill elk if I point it in the right place. I figure a 243 will kill elk too if it is pointed in the right place.

...lotta elk in Georgia? It amazes me how many people think they are bullet proof and you need a cannon to kill them. Let's see, I have taken 14 now with a stick that has a sharp point on the end. What was the question again? Oh yeah, .243 and elk. Not the best choice, but sure gets it done. I like the 100 grain Hornady Flat base spire points the best. I lost count long ago how many critters, both big and small have fallen to that bullet. It always stays together, penetrates very well and really messes stuff up inside. Flinch

Gotta few....but I see plenty more when I head out west every year. Best of luck with the 243. Agree that it's not the best choice, but if you make it work for you then that's great. More power to ya. Whatever makes your propeller spin. Best of luck this fall.

I guess I can't state an opinion because I've not tried to kill anything elk sized with a .243 or 6mm. I never will either. Of that I'm positive.

At least for me the cost of an elk hunt (my last license was $760 alone) is such that I'd say if you can't afford a real elk rifle then you can't afford the hunt.....stay home.

That said, others can hunt as they want.....I really don't care what you use.....For me elk cartridges start with the .280 Remington!

I knew a now retired CO outfitter that got a 243 as a present in High School and used it on everything he had a tag for. He was very sold on that round.

figured i would resurrect this thread since i have a 6mm Remington... I note that recorded in these pages are some old familiar handles that don't post anymore on the Fire...

I moved to Georgia in 91 and after seeing some of the big deer there I went from 6mm to 25-06 in a hurry. Some people arrive at cartridge performance on does, pre-rut bucks, and bucks in rut as if they were all the same critter but they aren't. Size matters too. I expect elk are much the same way.

The argument of "it's not about the power of the round but bullet and shot placement" has really grown. Where that is mostly true, when hunting elk on public land those perfect shots are few a far between. If your sitting on a sagebrush ranch, glassing a herd from your truck and picking the most broad side elk to shoot, I'm sure the smaller rounds work fine. You can shoot, then watch the animal until it falls. But when your hunting in thick cover with no snow and the animals run after the shot, good luck finding an elk after it runs more then 100 yards carrying a little 100 grain bullet in its guts. A .243 would never be my pick for an elk rifle. The past two years both elk I took with my .300 didn't leave a blood trail in the dry Colorado weather, but the elk didn't travel more the 15 yards. After 20 years of hunting elk the only animal I have shot and lost was a pheasant. Bottom line, pick the gun best suited for your type of hunting (if its elk don't chose the minimum legal caliber), learn how to shoot it, learn when to pass on shots, and fill some tags. If you can't shoot a 30/06 then you better know your limitations.

If it was all one had and he was careful with the shots, but I'd be inclined toward larger calibers.

And I have seen Mule Deer shot with a .243 and not drop. What does any of this prove? Mostly that the little 6MM is the smallest caliber allowed for Big game.

I've seen antelope shot 3 and 4 times with belted magnums and not even hardly show any evidence of being hit. I've seen mule deer shot with the 300 winmag. 5 times and still needed head shot. Have witnessed elk dropping in their tracks from a single round out of 243's 30-30's and the like. Elk hit with a 375 H&H right thru the boiler room and still travel another 200 yds. with no blood on either the entry or exit wounds.
None of the examples prove much of anything.
It all boils down to the hunter using a rifle and cartridge that he/she has confidence in.
Whenever these threads boil down to who has the supposed most testosterone, I'm always reminded of an old lady that spent the prime years of her life on the east face of the Bighorns raising kids, and helping her husband on the ranch. Her theory was that those guys using those" big ol 30-06's" on elk were just showing off, there wasn't any need for anything bigger than her 92 in 25-20.

I tend to agree with this.

The only "kill" I was ever in on with the 6mm Rem was a friend's kid using 100gr. rem Coreloks. First shot from 175 yards was perfectly placed through the lungs, but the cow traveled a LONG way before piling up.

I'm a believer all-around elk cartridges start at 270/7mm... maybe, 6.5mm, but not smaller for sure.

You guys kill me..

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...11538668/Matthews_first_elk#Post11538668

That does not count, Your son was a beginner and it was not a massive B&C Bull. Just a good tasting shooter bull. Beginners luck with his pop gun.........


P.S. The above statement was all in Jest in case anyone was offended.

I will add, that 100 grain partition blew completely through the elk and out the other side with massive trauma to the insides.

An example of one small spike is very inspiring... I'd definitely base all my future elk hunting on it.

I'm sure it was just a fluke........we got lucky.

I know a gentleman in WesterN Wyoming that has lived there his whole life. He is about 70 and has killed an incredible amount of elk in that time. He recently moved up to a Creedmore and 129 gr Interlocks for elk because he feels his shooting is not what it once was, up til three years ago all he used was a .243 with 100 gr. interlocks. Yes he placed his shots and had time. but in 60 plus years of hunting he never switched until age and eye sight got to him.....

There is all kinds of elk hunting, and little of it is an apples/apples comparison. For instance, shooting eating sized elk out of a hay meadow on a private ranch isn't the same as a big bull in the timber on public ground.

And so on...

Yeah. A couple of times...

Good point. Those "eating" sized elk, if they've spent the summers on the hay meadows are going to outweigh that bull in the timber by 100 lbs or so.
In the 40 some odd elk I've taken out of the high country over the last 1/2 century I don't think I ever had a shot over 250 yds. The 4 or 5 elk I've shot since they got so thick here,on the ranch, there's only 1 that was under 200, and that's because I set up an ambush for him at a stock dam.
Most of the "ranch" elk we've had shot here were moving, the vast majority of elk I've killed or been witness to in the "public" lands were standing and grazing, or bedded down.

So a spike is 100 lbs heavier than a 9 year old bull.

Got it.

Elk get killed with 22-250's all the time, which works fine when everything goes well. Ditto the 243. I just chose to draw my line a little heavier out of deference to Murphy.

If you live in elk country and hunt big meadows on a private ranch or shoot them in your backyard or you are a 12 year old girl on your first hunt 6mm 100 grain might be an ok choice.

Bull elk are big tough animals that can be hard to stop with really good elk cartridges let alone the legal minimum. You can certainly kill them with lung,neck or head shots but why you would choose to is beyond me

AS the others have said, if a 243 or 6mm was all I owned, I'd load it with 100 PT's or similar constructed bullet and limit my distance a little more. I wouldn't stay home that's for sure. Saying that, the smallest I have used on elk is the 270 and it works just fine. Good bullets equalize a bunch of stuff in my opinion.

When my daughter decides she wants to tackle elk with me, I'll probably have the little 6.5 Swede loaded up with a good bullet. I suspect it'll work well too.

I do understand what Brad means though, not all elk are the same nor the places we hunt them. My current favorite is the 7mm Mashburn with a good 160/175..

243...100gr NPT...~375yds. First elk for the boy, 10th elk for that 243. The spike was quartering towards us when the bullet entered behind the front leg and ended up in the off hind quarter. Traveled about 30 yds before it died. Spike was maybe 400lbs, tops.





243...100gr NPT....150yds. 5th elk for the boy, 14th elk for that 243. The cow was very heavily quartering away at a fast trot. The bullet entered the front portion of the hind quarter, into the flank, through intestines and stomach, drilled a lung and clipped the liver, ended up against the ribcage next to the off shoulder. She traveled about 60 yds before she piled up. This was a very large, mature, dry cow, around 550lbs.





Both cases are an example where a less-that-stellar shot with a premium bullet makes a difference--regardless of our cartridge choice.

I have been the shooter or witnessed every one of those 14 elk killed with that 243, and I have yet to see what that cartridge/bullet combo can NOT do.

Point is it's hard to let go of old ideas. I mean, I still will be packing my 270 next year, but I'm beginning to question why.........

Casey

I'm sure it was just a fluke.
I mean we're those private land hay meadow elk?

Do yourself a favor, give the elk a litte respect and shoot something bigger.

Or just simply learn how to shoot. Most folks miss that part...

I'd have no qualms... but then again I carry a 30-30 for moose at times....

Of course small tends to limit you a bit too, but just be prepared for that.

This reminds me of the time when we hunted the Upper Green River, and a friend of one of my cousins , was standing at the meat pole. We had 3 5pts, and a 6 pt hanging. He shot a 300, hit his bull 4 times before it all came to an end, the other bulls were shot once or twice by folks shooting 243's.
He was ragging on us 243 shooters about how we needed bigger guns.. Someone asked him, which elk was deader and which one was shot up the most?

Well, until I see guys taking on 400 lb lions and big cape buffalo with a deadly 6 mm.....

Elk don't have a tendency to turn around and try to kill you when you shoot them either...

I have done our local "sight in days" and most if not all of the out of state hunters, and a number of instate hunters can't shoot worth a damn. They would be better off with a 243 that they can shoot.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

Ya know, that is probably not as far fetched as it sounds. 243/6mm with a 100gr solid might get it there, especially on the lion. But, and you knew that was coming, I'll leave proving it the the guy's that swear bullet placement is everything! :-)

A small framed young child might be a good candidate to shoot a 243 but in my experience almost anyone who wants to hunt elk can manage a 270 or larger. I have a young woman hunting friend maybe 120 lbs who handled my lightweight 375 H&H just fine practicing for one of those TV hunting competitions,

My 12 year old grandson will be using his 30-06 for his first elk hunt this year he started using 110 grain minimum loads but handles 150 grain standard loads fine now.

We practice out to 700 yards or longer off sticks, knees or packs getting ready so that 300 yards feels like a chip shot. By the time we get to Colorado nobody feels the need to run to the sight-in days. Maybe if I were shooting a 243 instead of a 300 Weatherby or 7mm RM I'd need the reassurance.

I'm probably going to have 2 young first time elk hunters and a young guy on his 2nd trip in the group all of whom will shoot 30-06's with different Leupold scopes that will have way more rounds through them then they have today. The idea of handicapping them with a 243 or 6mm never entered mine or any of their thoughts - honestly I can't imagine thinking that way. But then again I like elk steaks and burgers and hate wounding animals.

I hunt elk with a 30-06 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions with Spitzer points, hand-loaded to perform like a .300 magnum (61 grains RL22 – 2,870 fps). It might seem simpler to just use a .300 magnum but I already have the '06 and the hand-load has a trajectory that is close enough to factory loads Federal Premium 30-06, 150 grain Sierra Game King BTSP that I can switch loads without adjusting my scope.

I think the middle calibers, anything from as small as .270 to as big as .338 magnum, are best suited for hunting elk. I recommend a minimum of 150 grain premium controlled expansion bullets. A 30-30 will kill an elk but its’ range is limited to about 200 yards. It’s my opinion that anything bigger than a .338mag is more gun than necessary and I don’t enjoy the recoil of those big calibers. A well placed shot from just about any legal caliber will kill an elk but nothing will work right with bad bullet placement, so one needs to use a caliber with which they are comfortable and proficient and take the time to get it right the first time.

I know a twenty-something, hundred and thirty pound, young lady who has killed six elk with a 25-06 and 115 grain Nosler Partitions. So much for my middle caliber theory.

Killing them is easy, killing them immediately and where you can find them not always so. The majority of "lost" elk that I have been made aware of were all shot with 6mm. As already pointed out, under ideal circumstances they can be killed with about anything. To many are lost to deer hunters whom move up to elk with deer rifles. Use all the gun you can shoot accurately and do the elk a favor. My group uses the following. 06, 300 WM, 7 mm Mag, 300 WM, 7 mm mag, 300 WBY. We kill elk every year and have yet to lose one. Oh our sample size is well over 100.

My basic rule of thumb is use a gun and bullet combo that will penetrate into the chest cavity of the critter from any shot angle if I have an antlered tag in my pocket. Hunting does or cows I might take one of the smaller rifles knowing I may have to pass up some shot angles. Easy peasy.

Brad, what's your thoughts on something like a 25-06 on elk? I'm thinking of picking up a MT in that cartridge and am curious as to how it would do.

The 25-06 has a fine reputation on elk.
A young fella I know had one, but got talked into the belted magnum nonsense, shot a couple of elk with the thing, but alway brought his 25 along for a backup rifle. One afternoon he decided to go out for the evening hunt and as elk hadn't been real thick in the valley we hunted decided to take his 25, about an hour after he left camp he came back bloody hands, tag filled from a one shot bang flop on the biggest bull he's killed to date. Remington 120 gr corloc factory loads as I recall.
An outfitter I know that works the Greys River, carries a tc encore in 25-06..

I was sort of thinking that a 120gr 25 caliber bullet ought to do about the same work as a 130 gr 27 caliber bullet when both are at roughly the same velocity.

I hear what you're saying, but no guarantee they'll shoot worth a darn with a .243, either. If they're going to make a bad shot, might as well be with a heavier round.
Most of the time, the shooter who is bad with a 300 magnum, is also a poor shot with a .22.

When my son was seven, he stepped up from a .223 deer rifle to a .308 deer rifle. Seems like he killed 9 or 10 whitetails that season with it. Recoil didn't appear to be a factor for him. I really don't understand trying to find the minimum caliber to kill big game animals.

What does a "heavier round" get you? What bullet do you shoot in the 300 mag that turns a gut shot elk, into a not gut shot elk?

There isn't "power" in any cartridge. Bullets kill by destroying tissue. How much tissue is destroyed depends on how deep and how wide the wound channel is, and where that wound channel is placed.

I see A LOT of people shoot, including children, and have seen the exact opposite from what you believe. Take anyone with a flinch and give them 200 rounds (or 1,000 rounds) of 300 mag and they won't fix their flinch no matter how much time you give them. Hand that same person a 223 and within 20 minutes they're over it.

Having taught and taken a bunch of first time hunters and shooters to their first animal, including elk, I absolutely would rather them take WHATEVER gun/cartridge combination they hit the best with from field positions, whether it be a 223 with bonded bullets or a 338WM.


Personally I believe it's ludicrous that people take anyone hunting after 20-30 rounds of "practice" and think they are ready. I've watched plenty of people take they're children/wives/girlfriends/friends hunting for the first time after the usual shoot a few rounds from the bench (some never had them shoot at all), and see the frustrations, failure and disappointments that usually result. There is a lot of reasons for that, not the least of which is not knowing to use the gun they have.


I, and those I hunt and shoot with have a 100% success rate when we let a new hunter choose what they carry after truly teaching them how to shoot and handle whatever weapon they are using competently from field positions while being timed (make it a game). Teach them, make them apart of the entire process and let them choose what they use. Very often they will choose a very low recoiling round, and they will kill with it just fine.

No doubt in my mind that the 243/6mm wouldn't work with the right bullet,just like the 223 on whitetail

Holy Cow!! 32,000 views on this thread.

Damn. Was planning a 6x57 VZ24 in an old Mannlicher on hand for stillhunting deer. Rereading this old thread is leaving me thinking I'm over-gunned...again.

May have to make that a 22-250 fast twist...

6.5x284 + 140 gr Nosler Partition + 52.5 gr IMR 4831 = hopefully 1st elk in Oct!

Thats not a 6mm

Didn't the GREAT Elmer Keith - who killed a mule deer at 400 yards with a short barreled .44 mag revolver, say that bullets from a .270 would bounce off an elk?


Mike

Know an individual that does elk with a 243. He is extremely careful taking only the most sure of shots. I personally would go a bit heavier.

Placement...

Worked on a moose (.243, 100 gr). Exit wound. Penciled through. between ribs, jellied the lungs. Mostly I use a .30 or .338, on moose. They don't need it, but a brown bear might. . I have only ever used the 100 gr. in .243. No need to f*k with very good enough!

If in doubt using an AR platform, just shoot it 10 or 20 times...

excellent post and right on target!

well I have read through this thread and thought I'd throw in a few thoughts

I have a friend in Green River that started hunting elk in his young teens with a Winchester M88 in 243. He killed 8 elk with that rifle. He said the use of a good bullet is the trick (no big surprise there) He still have the M88 and he still stand by his conviction that a 243 is fine if you are a good shot, and if you use a bullet that will penetrate well and not blow up. His comments mirror what I have seen as an elk hunter and guide for over 40 years.

However the other side of the coin is that he now uses a 308 and a 270. When asked why he simply said "The 243 was good but the 270 is better". It shoots a heavier bullet and penetrated deeper making a larger hole.
I asked him how many of his 243 bullets exited the elk he killed and he said about a third. When asked about the 270 (he shoots 150 grain Partitions) he said "all" That's been my experience too.

So I would never tell a good marksman not to use a 243. Just get good bullets for it.
But if you were to go out to buy a rifle for use on elk I would recommend a 6.5MM or larger, just because you get into bullets of 140 and larder as soon as you get to the .264" diameter and the extra weight of the larger bullets can help in breaking bone and still going deep. I have never been one that believes you need a big magnum for elk. I do use them when I like, but that because of only 2 reasons. #1 I own some powerful rifles that I like, so I hunt with them. I don't need that power, but I just like the rifles.
#2 many times I hunt where there are LOTS of grizzlies. Then I do feel like I should have some power. I am not hunting the bears, but I understand they may want to hunt me. My 9.3, 375 or 404 would make me feel a lot better shooting at something big, very close and getting closer fast. But years of experience killing elk have taught me that you don't need a huge magnum for elk. if you like them and you shoot them well go ahead and use them. But don't bad-mouth those that use a 243. You may have to eat those words if you do.

I hope to kill my elk this season with a 6.5X54 M/S. Not exactly a powerhouse compared to my 300 mags or my 9.3, or my 375. It fires a 160 grain round nose bullet at about 2250 FPS. But it shoots as well as I can hold it, and the penetration is good. So I think it will be fun to hunt with it, and the 6.5 M/S had a wonderful reputation on large thin-skinned game in Africa and India for many years, and I am sure it's as good today as it was in 1920. In energy, it's only a smidgen ahead of a 30-30, but shoots much flatter.

I can always grab a scoped more powerful rifle is I hunt the elk and feel like I am not able to use the old Mannlicher as well as I should. In early and late light I can't see as well as I did when I was young, so I may have to concede to my age and grab a scoped rifle, but I'll try the 6.5 for a few days before I do.
Should be fun.
Killing game is much more about the hunter than it is about the tool he is using.

Different experience here with deer. I've killed two whitetail bucks here in NE MInnesota with a 6mm Remington, 50 yards, standing still perfectly broadside, both heart shots, hot handloads with a 95 gr partition. Neither bullet exited. Both bullets came apart radically, without the partition holding up. I found the empty cup bases. Maybe I was too close? They were about 230 pounds each. Anyway, I switched to Barnes and killed one buck with an 85 grain x-bullet: it exited. Admittedly, not much experience, and the partitions certainly killed both bucks. The broken-up partitions scrambled their innards well. However, I consider the 6mm marginal for big deer (an unpopular view) and demand an exit wound for better trailing. I've killed about 130 whitetail and feel that my BAR in 30-06 and 180 grain Hornady soft points is the ultimate woods gun for big deer. I like 7mm STW or 270 Win for open country. I would not use a 6mm for elk unless I had a very good reason like I could not handle recoil, had no other gun, or just wanted to try it as an experiment. I've only killed a few elk and all but two were with muzzleloaders. I used a 35 Whelan on the two firearm elk. IT exited both times. I liked it. IMHO

I use my 6mm mostly for pronghorn.

Bill

Even a stopped watch is right twice a day... use enough gun... a .243 for elk is not it.

I have seen a few failures with .243 and .25 caliber rifles on elk, but not to say they won't kill an elk. Anything less than a stout 7mm is off the menu for me on an elk hunt. All the anecdotal evidence presented won't make a 6mm an ideal elk caliber, but use whatever lets you sleep at night. Happy Trails