Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant ....

i stand corrected Oldelkhunter . a 800 dollar TC better be a darn good one .

Businesses fail though for many different reasons.
A company can market a good product . But if they do not sell enough of that product to support the way the company is run . Well then the company goes under .
Even well run companies can go under if the product price is to high .
Remington though , has played this game before and cut and run then .
Same with Ithaca and Winchester .
They were smart enough to get in and get out once a decline was seen




This morning I did a quick check on the cost of an encore. . Not that I wanted to buy one . I just wanted to see what they were running .
Scoped . They are at some places pushing the 7-800 as well .
While I sit here in total disbelief . I gotta at the same time shrug and saw ; if people are willing to pay then so be it .
Then I did a quick look for the TC hawkens rifles both kit and finished .
I was amazed to see that a couple places were indeed trying to get away with selling the flint model at the 7-800 mark . But there were also far more places still selling the caplocks at around 300- 350 and the kits 250-300 . So im thinking at least concerning that rifle . If your paying 7-800 , you just didn�t look around


But at the same time . Im wondering if this isn�t just a way for S&W to proclaim that the economy was the main reason for their loss of sales . Thus take a bigger write off loss ..
Not saying that�s the case . Im just thinking out loud .

On the other side . big block , have you taken a look at buying even a traditional Pedersoli model as of late ? Boy you want sticker shock . that�s the place to go .

interesting times we live in thats for sure

The cost of all the advertising and promotion was factored into each individual rifle based on sales projectionsand production many months in advance. In 2006, the year the T/C pro hunter was introduced it was the #1 selling rifle for the entire year. The promotional costs for the T/C pro hunter was huge, yet all was paid for by the total production of rifles.

Greg Ritz realized that any product that was pre-sold thru T.V, would be successful and he was right. The firearms industry hated him for it because it worked. Greg Ritz launched the 2 most successful muzzle loading rifles in the industry, the T/C Omega and T/C pro hunter.


Doc

exactly, i was looking at the pedersoli missouri hawken for shooting conicals but fudge! I may have to sell my left nad to pay for the gun.

I'll speculate that another factor putting downward pressure on the $400+ muzzleloader market is the increase in the number of states allowing crossbows during archery seasons. It's hard to find a $400 crossbow, it appears the "meat of the market" is $600-$800! That has to make the $149 muzzleloader that much more attractive.

IMHO, it is just an extension into the sporting world of the American psyche that tells many folks that a big pile of cheap stuff is better than a small pile of quality stuff.

I agree Doc but the market is now saturated and that trend cannot continue

Oldelkhunter,

Actually the trend can contiue with a saturated ML market. The Knight bolt in-line was the first generation of the modern in-line ML rifles. The closed breech in-lines are the second generation of in-lines technology.

Will the ML inline market have a third generation of technology in rifles? I hope so, because the rifles sure will be interesting.

Doc

3rd generation = electronic ignition IMO.

Bigblock455,

CVA already tried that recently and the rifle was a "close-out". One of their few failures. Remington had the "electonix" varmit rifle years ago and that was also a flop.

We will certainly see the continued evolution of substitute powders.

I would like to see a breech loading Sharps style rifle that can be easily reloaded from a portable tree stand that uses a 209 primer.

Doc

actually the bolt action is the 4th generation of inline ignitions and Tony night is way , way down the line in that production .
types of bolt action inline flintlocks were the first generation and they started out clear back in the early 18th century.
those were later converted to cap lock . right around the same time as Purdy and pauly started hammer type inline ignitions .
those fell short as the bolt action needle guns came along ..
in the late 1970s there where also plunger type designs .
there also was a number of us who toyed with conversions of both lever and bolt action conversions from center fire .

Tony Knight followed those and gets the credit of picking the ball up and running with it .
but he is in no way the first



A friend of mine has a breech loading sharps . Its one of the Pedersoli carbines .
I believe its an 1859 if I recall
She is a 54 cal and can be loaded either from the muzzle as a muzzleloader or loaded from the breech with a paper cartridge or lose powder by using a loading rod . basicly a short starter but its used at the breach to push the conical a given depth .
It does use a musket cap . But one could most likely come up with a 209 conversion for it with little work .

wouldnt be allowed in CO. Must load from the muzzle.

ya big block , isn�t aloud here for a muzzle loading hunt .
but its is aloud if you want to use it in the general any weapon season

Captchee,

I stand corrected. I was referring to the modern generations since Tony Knight offered the first commercially successful bolt action ML.

Doc

Arizona. I vote for Arizona :-)