Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only How "big and strong" must one be to handle the recoil of a true Big Bore?

Or, is that a myth?

I hear complaints about this frequently on several forums.

What is your take on it?

I'm no "Macho Man" by any stretch... Out of the shower, I'm 177 to 180 lbs and 5'-9" (no socks or shoes). I've short legs with a longish, somewhat stockily-built body. But I'll be 75 in a couple of weeks and have lost 30 lbs in the last 15 years... which is nice since I have diabetes.

BUT, I also shoot some heavy "artillery"... in fact, mostly that.

What's your experience?

Let me preface this by saying I've written some "wordy" pieces on the psychology and physical aspects of managing recoil from the "heavies". Like to hear from the rest of you.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Well, Bob. I don't see how big and strong has anything to do with it. Dealing with recoil is mainly due to technique and mental preparedness.

Hasn't everyone seen the youtube vids of various fools bracing themselves to shoot a 375? that's poor technique and the shooter will be rightly pummeled for shooting like that. Afterall, it's not you vs the gun - it's you and the gun working together. Therefore, technique becomes critical.

The recoil of some of the medium big bores, such as the .375 H&H Magnum isn't nearly as bad as many expect.

I know guys that are afraid to shoot my Win M70 375 H&H, even though they don't have any problem spending a day shooting their 12 gauge shotguns out in the field.

Just for example;

A 9 pound 375 H&H shooting a 270 GR bullet generates 36 pounds of recoil.

A 7.5 pound 12 gauge shotgun shooting a 2 3/4" mild field load of 1 1/4 ounces generates 32 pounds of recoil.

Not much of a difference between the two.

A heavy shotgun load, such as a 3" 1 5/8 ounce shell generates almost 53 pounds of recoil, which is almost identical to a .416 Rem Mag shooting a 400 GR bullet (52.9 pounds of recoil).

Little Fern was a marksman with her lightweight 375H&H killing bears back at age 9. By the time she was 10, it was routine for her to out shooting most full grown men she encountered while sighting in at hunting camps. Her mastering the recoil of a lightweight 375H&H was not a result of her tiny size, just as the size and weight advantage of the full grown men was not a factor in their inability to match Fern's skill level. Fern's marksmanship was a result of proper training and precise execution of sound technique.

I seem to recall Shoemaker's daughter, Tia, being an expert for using the 416 Remington Magnum for hunting Alaska big game. I'd imagine she'd also give many a run for their money when it comes to capabilities with a big bore rifle.

Best:)

I think form and concentration are the keys to managing recoil, weight on forward leg and using Your abs as a shock absorber to roll w/ recoil works for me.

I get in a hurry sometimes shooting lighter rifles 300, 338, 375, mags and catch myself in a flinch I immediatley stop and go fire a couple of 577 NE's or a 400gn charge from an 8-bore BP rifle.

Those get my mind right, [slow down concentrate]

Elmer Keith was no monster. He was rather middle sized, and handled the true big bores without a problem.

BMT

Bob,
I believe that strength has little to do with it. Recoil management is a state of mind where you apply self discipline. I have shot 5 shot groups around the half inch mark with my .460 Weatherby and have shot gongs on a public range in Wyoming at the 300 yard mark with consistency as well as shot in front on groups of people over a lot of years.

Irrespective of the cartridge and load chosen, you have to apply a mindset of concentration in what you are there for, so that recoil is moved further down the line of concern. I personally do not like muzzle blast way before actual recoil.

John Woods

IMO, being fit & flexible matters more than size in terms of recoil tolerance. 'Tis much less punishing to be fit and be able to "move" under recoil than to be huge / stiff and absorb the full blow with your body.

YMMV.

I agree and in my opinion 'muzzle blast', and not 'recoil', is the enemy.

I don't have a problem with recoil, and none of my rifles have a muzzle brake or any type of porting system installed.

A little extra recoil is better (in my opinion) than additional muzzle blast.

OFG, dang right, my shoulders are alot stronger than my ears.

Gunner

Seems to me the BIG BOYS (300 pounders+) take a beating, not able, perhaps to roll with the punch. Slight built folk are in motion after ignition and become a little displaced, my wife takes a step backward but is not brused...The big boys, unless they are all beef, soak up all of the recoil.

I always wondered why folks think that smaller people take recoil better than larger ones. If that was true the featherweight boxers should be able to beat the heavyweights. Maybe it's just that us lighterweight have learned to deal with recoil.
You should see my 110# daughter shoot a 600 Overkill. She simply rolls with it and takes a few quick steps backwards

Absolutely no correlation. There are big guys that can't handle a 30-06, and people barely breaking into the triple digits that handle the big guns in stride.

I've found all that's required is a desire to shoot the big gun, a gun that is properly sized to the shooter, good form, and when you can no longer concentrate on shooting the gun, stop shooting it for the day.

In my personal experience big guys complain a lot more about recoil than little guys. I have a theory that they soak up more than the little guys do.

I believe it is commitment, not size or strength. You have to have plan for learning to deal with it, and a desire to learn as you go.

Interesting points Men, I have witnessed from one extreme to the other regarding body weight.

Little Frank is a wrangler friend of mine and @ 140lbs. he's tough as a boot heel, solid no fat. And another friend who is a mgr. for a large hotel chain, Big Darren tips the scales @450lbs.

Each of these men fired my 577NE w/750gn. woodies @2070fps. That big rifle rocked the hell outta Frank, but he recovered quick and was ready to go again if need be. Darren on the other hand was noticeably more affected by the recoil, I tried not to laugh, but that rifle looked like it was gonna kick a hole thru him.

LSS, I agree w/UL, physical conditioning and concentration plays a major role in shooting the big bores effectivly.

FWIW neither man wanted to fire the 8-bore w/a full 400gn. charge of 2F BP. That fire breathing beast is a sight to behold

Gunner

What's a "true" big bore - to you?

I am really only truly familiar with one "big-bore". I find it hilarious that so many are afraid of the 375 H&H.

Before I got mine - based on what I'd heard and read, I seriously wondered if I was up to it too. I wondered if I was biting off more than I could chew.

Then I discovered the truth. It recoils about the same as my 12 gauge shotgun with stiff waterfowl loads - loads I shoot all day long when out after ducks and geese.

And - my 375 H&H - weighs only 7 lbs naked - it's a Sako 85.

I'm sure it can bother some people - especially with a poorly fitting rifle. But I'd rather shoot my 375 H&H Sako, than my 30-06 Remington 760 or my Browning A-Bolt 7mm STW any day of the week.

In a well designed rifle - the 375 H&H Magnum feels just like most of my shotgun field loads. It's totally over-rated when it comes to recoil.

I'd say from personal experience that when you start moving a 500gr or heavier bullet over say 2100-2200 fps, that you've moved into a different level of recoil. I've gone through two boxes of 350 gr @ 2500 fps out of the lott in a shooting session, and it was no big deal. But with the full power 500 gr loads, 10 shots was my limit. It takes a serious level of concentration to squeeze off those rounds, especially off the bench.

Good responses, all...

And, I'd have to agree with 458 Lott.

One of the things that sparked this question are statements like I just read today to this effect: "I'm 6"-5" and 285 lbs, so I don't think recoil from (said rifle)will trouble me".

And I agree with all who have said, in so many words, that weight and strength (and, I'd add age, within reason, if one is in reasonably fit condition)are not the main factors, while learning technique and mental discipline are.

I'm looking forward to hearing from more of you.

And, incidentally, I've referred to the .375's (magnums) as "Medium Big Bores".

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I've got some big kickers. Guns that don't give a 'healthy shove'...but rather simply knock the crap out of ya'. Hard and fast. Specifically the .340, .378, .416, and .460 Weatherby's. To be honest, I don't shoulder these guns any differently than I do my smaller caliber centerfires. I don't think any differently than when shooting smaller bores either. The recoil is gonna happen...I'm not scared of it. I just go with it. Kinda like comparing shooting my .454 SRH with my S&W 617...I don't hold em' any different and I don't think any different. I just concentrate on trigger squeeze and sight picture, and when the gun fires and the recoil happens, I just go with it.
Seeing 'dots and glitches and [bleep]' afterwards is just part of it.

That's awesome, BTW.

+1

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I'm no "macho man" either, about 10 years younger than you Bob, a few inches taller and about 20 lb heavier.

When I first got my Ruger #1 375 H&H and had to shoot it off a bench per range rules, it hurt because I was dodging that scope coming back so quick. I never took it back to that range, but only to one where I could shoot standing up and everything was fine.

I went on to get an identical rifle in 458 Win Mag, and found I could shoot it from a bench more comfortably than the 375, in my opinion due to a slower recoil velocity, not lesser recoil. I did have it rattle my cage once when shooting semi prone( laying over a round hay bale for support)

Later I picked up a pretty CZ Safari American, again in 375H&H, for two reasons beautiful wood and the thing fit me perfectly. In all honestly it's softer shooting, from a bench than the old Winchester 70 featherweight 30-06 I started out with back in 63. I have offered to let others shoot it at the range and they usually decline saying it would hurt too much, when I can see their little 7mm &30 cal wonder mags are whipping them much worse than my big 375.

I guess what I'm saying is that mental attitude is the biggest part, position and technique help.

Connie Brooks, all 125 or so pounds of her, shoots 500NE and others just fine. I, at 6'3" and a muscular 245lbs with a very deep voice and an avid biker, dangerous game hunter, former football player, etc run out of tolerance at 416 Rigby. Big and strong or 'macho' have nothing to do with it.

Just as the average Navy Seal is around 5'10" and 165-170#, size has nothing at all to do with toughness. It's in you head.

Don't know if it's photo chopped but looks real. Nice pic

This guy seems to do ok.

Wonder if he ever needs a follow up shot? LOL

It might be that the bigger and more solid one is, the more the felt recoil since a large shoulder attatched to a large frame does not want to move or give as readily as a smaller counterpart.

I have owned and shot a coulple of 458 Win and Lott rifles and can shoot them OK, but do not care to do so and find no need. 416's seem to flatten 'em out quite nicely.

You're getting some good responses w

I think it has to do with shooting form, and just relaxing. I shoot a .416 Rigby (CZ 550)off a bench and have shot as many as 40 rounds in one sitting with no problem. I am a large body. I have taught my son and a friend to shoot it and once I could get them to hold it correctly and relax they were very surprised that is was not bad at all. They both shoot short action cal. and are very recoil sensitive. But if you try to stand up to the recoil it will hurt you.

Darn right! Always knew there might eventually be some advantage to being skinny without big muscles. That probably explains why some women handle the recoil so well. They move with it rather than tensing up too much and fighting it. Also the shape of the stock is really important. You don't want to get whacked in the jaw with every shot. Or have the bolt handle or trigger guard bang into your finger.

Some are nibbling around the ket issues IMHO...which, to me are that recoil does not effect your whole body....which explains why little lightweight folks can manage it(sometimes) and big people cannot(again, sometimes)......generalizations about "toughness",body weight,gender,etc have utterly nothing to do with it....and neither does physical fitness(the more weight lifting you do the more recoil you can manage,which is "bull")....

What is affected by recoil are those body parts in touch with the rifle,or directly affected by the recoil, ie, head, face neck,hands and shouler area(if I left anything out lemme know

As you age, you better keep an eye on your retina's too, which are not quite as well put together as they were when you were younger.

Also, the way you shoot.....dealing with a very hard recoiling rifle requires greater muscle tensio to control the rifle in recoil than a lighter kicking one....sometimes, for some people a lighter hold allows better more accurate shooting than something that will fly out of your hands if you fail to get a monkey grip on it.....

And heavy rcoil is detrimental to accurate shooting,most especially over long strings,or from awkward and unsteady field positions.

If you don't believe this set up a 3" dot at 50 yards,shoot it off hand with your 22 rimfire.....it is no trick to hit it every time,off hand. Try the same thing with your 30/06 and see what happens.....

Of course for a couple of shots in the field,all this will not matter much......

I could pick up anything from a 22 rimfire to a 458 and do well with it....but that doesn't mean I want to, or should...generally the less the better especially if you shoot a lot.....I have found there is a lot of dishonesty among riflemen when it comes to how much recoil they can truly manage.JMHO

Well said.

Thanks to all for your views and input on this sometimes blurred subject.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

When I got 500 Jeffery, my youngest son (16 years old and 140 lbs at the time) had to shoot it. He did fine, though he liked shooting the 375 H&H better ...



Chuck

cz550,
I used to mount scopes on a lot of 12 gauge shotguns for deer hunters. Most of the time they would have me sight it in for them. They were afraid to shoot their own gun!
I can't really blame them. I have a Ithaca 37 LAPD model with rifle sights on it. It kicks worse than the 8.5 lb .458 Model 70 African I had.
My advice is to shoot it standing up if at all possible.
Noone shoots dangerous animals from a bench that I know of. The light rifles are nice to carry but beat you up bad.
The worst kicker I have ever fired was a 5 pound 20 gauge.
whelennut

That recoil absorption allowed from standing is better than from the bench since recoil distributes over the whole body mass, not just the shoulder neck and head.The body movement allows recoil impulse to occur over a greater time period and thus be subjectively less.

My personal take is that it has absolutely nothing to do with one's personal size. Fit of the gun sure helps a lot but mostly it's about the want and desire to master the bigger rounds as well as the will to practice.

Just the way I see it.

Dober

That's kinda the way I see it too.

Well my take on being able to handle "recoil" to the upper torso, mainly the shoulder the butt of the rifle is against and one's cervical too.

Proper fit of gun is a must but also the proper technique of standing or sitting when the trigger is pulled. One needs to receive a "rocking motion" when standing or sitting and this will let recoil run out.

The shooter must also have a mind set, as to be determined NOT to let the rifle rule or control you, YOU control the rifle etc. So like in golf, proper stance and grip of the rifle is a must and placing that butt of the gun, into the shoulder pit is essential, not have it on your bicep muscle etc.

Little girl, big bear - not photoshopped.

Stepdaughter of Guide Larry Rivers. He wrote about this on his website. Great achievement for anyone - especially for one so young. They set her up with a special kevlar shoulder piece to protect her from recoil by distributing it onto a larger surface.

(This from memory - His website is out - so I have no source.)

Elmer was damn near a midget in fact. I saw him at a NRA convention years ago. I'm 5'9 and am a lot taller than he was. I'd say he was 5'5 to 5'6. I have no problem with hard kickers, it's mostly mental. I've seen guys who were 6'4 and 300 who couldn't handle a .300 WM. You just have to have the mental ability to realize it isn't going to kill you and concentrate. The big boys will teach you proper gun mounting however, one way or another.

I also mounted and sighted in more than my share of scopes on 12 gauge shotguns. Thats all we used in Michigan. The Ithaca mod. 37 DeerSlayer tipped the scales at about 6 lbs. and with 3" magnum slugs would turn your hat sideways! But its nothing compared to a Mossbeg 835, about 7 lbs, with a 3 1/2", 2 1/4 oz. turkey load. It will knock your hat OFF & loosen the fillings in your teeth! However, in my older years (66), it seems I have become more tolerant to recoil. Of course I do a lot more shooting now also, so I'm learning more about technique, I guess.

A lead sled off of the bench will take the sting out of sighting in and load development. Offhand, most of the big bores are not difficult to shoot as long as you keep them to reasonable (not too light) weight.

Chuck

Last time I had my 600 at the range I let 2 kids shoot it. With the break on of course! One kid about 16 that said he and his father shoot 3.5 12s and 10s on waterfowl. I knew he'd have no problem. The other was a short fat kid that wanted an empty for his collection. I told him he could have it if he shot it. He watched me shoot a few and backed off, but determination won in the end. The stock was a bit long for him, but he had good form. He also was the recipient of excellent firearms training as he did not put his finger on the trigger until ready to shoot. After the shot he was all smiles! The load was Wayne's standard 900gr2150. Rifle weighs 10.75lbs.

Andy

It is said roll with the punches, don't be caught flat footed. Inertia, resistance to change, if you are stopped you want to stay stopped. When shooting a rifle with healthy recoil ,stay loose roll with it, don't resist or tense up, if you have the proper stance touching of a heavy or .22 RF your form will be the same and likelyhood of reliable hits.

I didn't see much mentioned about 'stock fit'. I had an old ww2 8mm Mauser that kicked worse than my 458WM. The Mauser had very little drop at comb. For me it has everything to do with the fit of the rifle and the shape of the stock!

Stock design, weight and balance and "will".

John

many years ago my wife wanted to start shooting deer and sitting on a deer stand by herself. We had 2 kids, maybe she just wanted to sit on the stand (away from them) while I watched them at the cabin.
Well, it was in our poorer days and didn't see spending $1000 on rifle/scope. So, I bought her a 12 guage. I had the stock sawed off and a huge recoil reducer pad put on it. Probably 3 inches was cut off so that, after adding pad, it'd still be 1.5 inch shorter stock.
Killed her first deer with 3 inch magnum buckshot.
I had no idea until recently that this shotgun's recoil with 3 inch magnum shells were 1.5 to 2 times harder than a 300 magnum. Granted there was no scope to dodge, but kick is kick.
I used to smile watching her shoot it. she weighed 120 pounds.

2 years ago, though, I had my TC Encore 50 cal loaded with a heavy load of powder and around 200 gr bullets. I forgot I had it heavy loaded. She wanted to shoot it and the scope popped her between the eyes. E.R. trip and liquid stitches. A very fine 1.5 inch scar that can barely be seen with no makeup. invisible with makeup. But, she won't shoot that gun again..... even when I offer to reduce the charge to a weak load. it's in the head.
she didn't notice the 12 guage kick much, but did on the 50 cal. It's all perception I guess.

Some interesting comments, but the rules of physics can't be denied or changed.

A big person will on average suck up recoil better than a small one over the long run for the same reason that most big bores are made to weigh more. Once you mount the rifle your weight becomes part of the unit and if you weigh 250 vs 150 like a heavy rifle you soak up recoil more efficiently.

Many of the top trap shooters of game were or are bigger than average. I've watched a couple three hundred pounders just stand there and take round after round. The shotgun hardly moves under recoil. The body jiggles around and comes back to rest quickly.

Not saying a small person can't lean to roll with the punch or that a larger person that is overly tense or muscle bound will not feel the effects of recoil more than one that can relax. Or that mental toughness can't take one places that those who don't have it will never go.

But size does soak up recoil, due to the body at rest theory. The more weight that body has, the more it wants to stay there, and it can't be ignored.

Weight is the reason the lead sled doesn't break the egg.

Americans must be at least six-feet tall and 200 pounds and Koreans must be above average height and weight and hold a black belt in at least one marshal art. Smiling, apparently, is not required...Or is that a DMZ guard....

The fact is,size seems to have little bearing on recoil.One of my very best friends can lift the front of a Volkswagon off the ground with ease yet sold a .338 Win Mag given to him because of recoil.

One has to learn to roll with the recoil rather than fight it.In my opinion,size and strength has nothing to do with it.


Jayco

The more one weighs the less he has to roll.

The recoil of a .458WM will move a hot wheel car. An F250 not so much.

It is all about inertia and mass. But what the hell did Newton know?

I'm surprised that this is still going! But since I started it, I guess I could add a few comments: I was not asking for myself as I've lots of shooting experience with Big Bores. And there has been some excellent input from everyone.

The reason I posed the question as I did was because several, on other threads, were complaining rather vociferously over the recoil of "magnums" when they weren't really any "better" for large game than standard cartridges in the same caliber. I wanted input from others, who shoot "big magnums" to see whether "magnumitus" is a serious problem among those who prefer heavier calibers for heavy game... because I write on these matters, and others of a practical nature.

Thanks to all for your input.

I'm not a large man... about average I think. Today, I weigh 180 lbs out of the shower. At one time I did weigh about 210 - 215. I'm probably healthier today (at age 75) than when I was 60. I do handle my .458 Win mag quite well, and I don't find it abusive with it's heaviest loads. But I have settled on a practical hunting load for moose and bear, using 350gr TSX's at 2750 fps, generating 50 ft-lbs of recoil. And the recoil momentum isn't bad from the 11.25 lb rifle all-up ready to go.

One thing I have learned though, when practicing I use good ear muffs and ear plugs. When the muzzle blast is just a simple "pop", the recoil is definitely less!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I agree that muzzle blast bothers me more than recoil. It is simply a mind over matter thing. If you don't mind it don't matter. Muzzle blast gets into my mind making it matter. The only time I ever caught myself flinching was shooting a friend's 338 win mag with a muzzle break. I have shot 470 nitro express with no issues.

Shooting is all between your ears....

My first wife was 5 foot 1 inch tall and weighted 116 pounds. Her favorite rifle was my 375H&H and I would have to take it away from her many times because she wanted to fire 50-100 rounds from it a day and I could not afford that .
My wife today is 5 foot 11 and weights 151 pounds. She shoots her 30-06 with no problem at all, but doesn't like anything more powerful.
I know big men who are absolutely not wimps who just can't shoot well with 30-06s and 7MM Mags and I know smaller shooters who shoot big guns with no problem. A lady who used to work at out largest gun-shop in Riverton is 5 foot and she's a bit round, but one of her all time favorites is a 416 Rigby and she shoots it very well.

Stock fit is a big consideration and some calibers that hurt someones shoulder can be made to be easy to shoot well if the stock of the gun is either modified or replaced with one that fits the shooter. As a gunsmith I have dealt with that issue many times in the last 50 years.

So how big or strong is not really asking the right question. And the only way to answer that is to try them and see. Before going forward, have someone measure you and give you the stock dimensions that are perfect for you and see if you can find one that is of those measurements ----------or get as close as you can. For big guns length of pull and drop at comb are the 2 most important ones. For perfection cast off, drop at heel, drop at toe and pitch are helpful mostly for how fast you can mount the gun up and have the sight dead on. But the ones that are important for recoil are length of pull and drop at comb, and cast off is next. The other ones don't have a lot to do with how it feel in recoil.

I am only 5' 6" and I and wide in the shoulders. I take more cast-off then most men. I have a short neck and my LOP is ideal at 13.3" When I make stocks to fit, I shoot 416s, 458s and my 404 Jeffery very well and they don't hurt at tall. But I have a friend who owned a Remington 600 in 350 mag with a long slim stock on it (he has arms like a daddy long-legs spider) and I think that light long gun is a wicked kicker, and I hate firing it. It's recoil is probably about 1/2 of my 404, but it kicks me and hurts. My experience with a standard Weatherby Mk5 in 378 is awful too. But one I made a stock for one about 20 years ago, for a man who was built like me. It was not bad to shoot at all, with the new stock.

So the old saying is true:
Recoil is how much force is exerted backwards from firing a gun. Kick is how it feels.

Kick is all about who is doing the feeling. No man can tell you what you are going to feel. Only you yourself can tell us.

A good recoil pad, great stock design and plenty of weight and most big bores are easy too shoot. My 500 a square is a pussy cat to shoot with a recoil reducer and muzzle break.

Dont fight the recoil just roll with the hit. More than 3 shots gets a bit silly thou

I'm 5'10" and 165 and i can certainly feel it in my shoulder after shooting off a dozen rounds of heavier loads in the field sighting-in my .375 and i have pretty good technique, bin shooting since my single digit years. I'm not in pain but i can feel that something went on there, almost like a mild workout ache. It doesn't bother me mind-you and i think the thing about recoil is just not to think about it. Just shoot and don't give recoil your attention.

I do notice the recoil with 270 grain factory loads even though i don't think about it before i shoot. I don't notice it at all with my 250 grain handloads over 64.5 grains of Varget.

I am 6'4" and over 300 pounds. I have shot everything in the Army inventory once upon a time and I have a collection of big bores most won't fire twice. Recoil is not an issue for me even though I am big that does not matter as much as proper form and bracing yourself for the shot. If you have a scope you have to be aware of the clearance and not creep the scope that is what gets most people. The three guns I have shot that I really noticed the kick was in the Army only the M203 grenade launcher and that was only because I was not expecting it to kick that hard. 40mm grenade basically a 40mm shotgun duh. The hardest kicking rifle I've ever shot was a 505 Gibbs non ported with a 600 grain load. I fired 3 rounds off the bench, no lead sled, and my whole body was shaking even in a good position. The last is a T/C Encore pistol in .308, I could handle it fine but it is a hard kicking handgun that many people cut their brow on that scope. A 500 S&W even ported is quite stout but manageable. Every thing else including all the Weatherby's have been easy to control. I have a friend who is my size and hunts with a .338 Lapua ported but will not shoot any of my guns because he says they hurt him. Big bores are made to be shot standing anyway and that is the best way to minimize recoil but your footing needs to be right.

It's not your size. Some of that actually works against you. If you are heavy, "jabby" rifles come through you before they can move you out of the way where they just push a lighter person back with less "hurt." Some is good form. Some is something intangible ... something we're born with some of and maybe can train a bit more of, but ultimately we're a bit the "victim" of our genetics. Where big helps, if you are strong, too, is lugging some heavy SOB rifle around all day, not shooting it.

I'm 5'9", 200 pounds. Recoil bugs me. I CAN shoot big stuff but it hurts some. From a bench I do .. well, I'm very functional. I can technique it well enough my flinch simply does not matter. I put 80 rounds though my .375 in about 2 hours a couple weeks ago and was shooting sub MOA groups, some closing in on half MOA .. but it was from a bench with a good rest, one that overcomes my flinch. If I were to shoot it offhand ... you'd laugh your ass off at me. I do! I flinch shooting offhand with a .22. No matter, I learn how to cheat recoil, to get the results I want in spite of it ... that's part of the game for me.

Tom

I do not know if there is a set of physical characteristics that determines ability to take heavy recoil.

I know my personal limit lies below 416 Rigby levels.

I can shoot my 375 with 300gr bullets all day.
404Jeffery up to about 60 rounds.
When I had different Rigby's, less than 10 rounds.

I am looking forward to playing with a 416 Remington and 350gr TSX's.

QUOTE: It's not your size. Some of that actually works against you. If you are heavy, "jabby" rifles come through you before they can move you out of the way where they just push a lighter person back with less "hurt."


I’ve been saying this for years! Many may argue the premise, but, my thoughts are a heavy person must absorb more recoil before they begin to move with the recoil. A smaller, lighter person will “roll with the punch” quicker, thus absorbing less recoil. I also think that muscle tone can help with the shooter’s ability to handle recoil better. memtb

"Roll with the punch" .. thanks, that's the phrase / image I was looking for but couldn't think of. Sort of "ride the recoil" instead of "getting slammed by the recoil".

Connie Brooks used a 500 Nitro in Africa and she weighed 110 pounds

Non issue with most factory 45-70 ammo carrying 405 grainers that end to end near all North American game at 22 LR velocities. Hop it up to 17 or 18 hundred fps and it can dish out a little punishment. Just admit that one will get a bit of a kick and concentrate solely on technique as I've never really been injured.

I believe the technique has much to do with handling recoil. And the mental aspect / state.
I have shot rifles that hurt. I don’t like to shoot rifles that hurt. I either figure out a technique to prevent the hurt, or modify or get rid of the rifle. Modifying length of pull usually helps me.
The noise is as big of factor in my shooting. I wear double hearing protection normally. The muzzle blast is another distraction that I try to mentally overcome. I have a few 20” and under barrels.
The recoil pounding, I try and accept that it is not going to really hurt. This goes back to the hurt part. Scope cuts / bruising from the scope, something will be changed. This also applies to being punched on the face by the stock, or driving the thumb on the grip hand into the nose.
I have some memories of rather light recoiling rifle/cartridges actually hurting and spilling a bit of my blood. Fit and Bad technique were the reasons.
I have a 458 Lott with scope that weighs 9# 10 ounces. It is a bit lively with full power 500 grain loads. I would hesitate to shoot it in some positions that I would shoot my 416 Ruger and/or 416 Remington with 350-400 grain loads.
I believe that the mental and technique go hand in hand.
There is no myth to a bloody eyebrow/nose or bruised cheek. And I have seen this on smaller and bigger guys.

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A Light 12 gauge pump shotgun shooting 3" heavy payload shells kicks harder than most big kicker rifles. You shoot the shotgun multiple times on a duck hu nt and people don't think about it. A kicker rifle you shoot once or twice at game. Just concentrate on proper mechanics and following through with the shot at game. You probably won't notice the recoil shooting at game unless the scope bleeds you.

I'm not so sure there is any single 'one fits all' formula. Surely mental conditioning/preparedness important. How achieved, differing! I own but don't enjoy shooting some heavy recoiling guns. Yet personal weapons, at least more opportunity to affect ergonomics than 'in the business' duty guns. Short stocks for me, far more punishing even in twelve buck/sabots than heavier bruisers! Newton controls, but mitigation, as suggested in this Thread, quite possible.
Just a quick interjection take!
Best & Keep Safe
John

I have noticed that most shooters when introducing new shooters all seem to tell them to pull the rifle in "tight" to the shoulder...I have also noticed that it tends to rattle their teeth when they do so.


Not sure if it is malicious or simply uninformed.


For myself I rest the rifle against my shoulder and move with it rather than stand solid.

Recoil tolerence varies from person to person regardless of size. I worked up to where I can shoot double NE in .470, .450#2 without much notice. Some things I have learned are:

- the fit of the gun is important!

- you can work up to the big ones. Anyone going straight from a .243 to .458 is in for a surprise!

- if you get hammered once and develop an flinch, it is very tough to overcome it.

- do not shoot heavy recoiling rifles froms a seated position at the bench. Stand up!


I was working up loads on my .450 #2 double from the bench, seated. 110 Grains of H4831 and 500 grainWoodleighs. I got a double discharged. Ouch! Didn't knock me over, but Rocked my world. Happened twice in a row before I found the barrel selector switch had been changed. That solved the discharge issue, but left me with a flinch. It took a year of practicing with only a .22 lr to get over it. I have no effects from it in the field any more, but occasionally at the bench, I'll flinch. The memory lingers.

Interesting thread. That 700 NE video is a hoot — take a Mike Tyson right for what? $8-10 a pop?

Never did have had a double rifle bigger than a 9.2X74 and 458 Lott in a bolt gun which wasn’t as bad as I anticipated though never shot it from a sitting position.

Of all the guns, the most obnoxious in my experience was an H&R single shot 12 with a 3 1/2” turkey load. I bought it years ago for a “starter” turkey gun for a non-shooter SIL. I had to try one of the Havana-sized shotshells.

I could have made a better choice. I did warn him.

recoil i have a 458 lott and that recoil is not that bad ,but my Savage 20 gauge bolt rifle shooting 3 inch slugs is down right nasty. so i always say let the young and foolish sight in the rifles with the heavy recoil .

I have shot everything up to 460 Weatherby and have handled it all OK. BUT I am north of 50 now and am finding that I am not liking recoil as much as I once did. The hardest kicking rifle I ever did shoot was a 338 mag. I don't know if it was stock design or what but that sucker literally hurt when it went off. It was like getting hit with a baseball bat sharp and fast.

Might as well add my 2 cents:

The rifle that hurt me the most was a Ruger 77 red pad in 7mm RM. That stock just was not right for me. It hurt my face - slapping it hard. After restocking the rifle, it was a pussy cat.

My 416 Rigby doesn't hurt, not my ultra light 45-70 with hot loads nor my 350 RM 600 with heavy loads, and so it is with my 375 H&H AI with heavy loads in a pre-64 70.

The worst kick I've ever endured was a double barrel 12 gauge with 3 " magnum 2 oz loads and both barrels going off at the same time. That shotgun had a hard butt plate - ouch!

So, like many before me wrote, the stock fit is very very important! I have bursitis in my shoulders and I appreciate soft recoil pads and the heavy kickers have soft recoil pads.

I have a sit down bench and I have a stand up bench at my range. I have shot all the above rifles sitting down. Now that I'm in my seventies I built that stand up bench and have noticed that I much prefer standing up to shoot my heavy kickers. (Even if it doesn't make the list the others have given above.)

I have shot more .460 Weatherby loads that most people and learned several things while doing it.

1. Rifle weight must be adequate and the rifle balanced with the cartridge size to assist mitigation
2. Length of Pull is a much greater factor that most would think and I learned through owning both a .Mark V .460 and John Rigby .275 that 14 inches is perfect for my build.
3. A Monte Carlo stock design is a tremendous help when you have developed muscles between the shoulder and neck which is commonly called sloping shoulders. (Spent a ridiculous amount of time on the net trying to identify this muscle name and it was impossible. Everything I did not want to know was repeated over and over)
4. The above stock design enhances recoil in magnum cartridges and needs a brake with the best being top and side ports and not full circumference breaks. I favor Magnaporting and have even tried custom versions with 3 ports per side up to recoil levels of the .416 Weatherby Magnum. Cartridges under .30 cal are fine without porting - at least for me.
5. Eye relief is a major factor in your scope choice because after you draw your own blood, the fun stops.
6. Always, (develop the habit fast) always hold the stock fore-end firmly, even when shooting from the bench. The rifle is never heavy enough to let rest on the bags.
7. Learn your recoil tolerance. Use light to medium weight bullets for caliber and moderate loads and learn to like your rifle rather than staring out trying to conquer it.
8. Use the big rifle for snap shooting, bunnies are a great teacher to learn and speed reaction times and handling because their fast break from cover distracts your attention which is perfect.
9. When shooting from a bench, focus your concentration on the point of aim. If you are thinking about getting belted you will shoot poorly. Shoot less at teh bench than in the field.
10. Use the big rifle for eradication work. Shoot it more than any other rifle and increase loads or more more towards the bullet you really want to standardize on gradually.

I will be hunting whitetail with a .458 Model 70 this year. I know the cartridge and load will be adequate so my attention will be on the animal and whether I really want to take it. It is more likely that I will watch and enjoy unless he is like me in human years.