Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters "Black Shadow" Post-'64 .223 WSSM Barrel Twist?

There is one of these that has been sitting on the rack at one of my local gun shops for quite a long while and I'm wondering if anyone knows what twist rate USRA put in these?


I'm looking to shoot high-BC projectiles and wondering what this might stabilize?


Thanks,

efw

All of the Winchester 70 WSSMs; 223, 243, and 25 came with 1-10" ROT barrels.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. Anybody have a clue as to whether the high rate of speed that this cartridge produces would allow stabilization of a projectile, like an 80 gr AMax, that would otherwise require a 1-in-9" twist?

ps- looking at reviews of the brass makes me think there is a good reason these WSSM cartridges, especially this one which is amazingly fast, are such an unbelievable failure...

You need a 1-7 1/2 to stabilize that bullet.1-10 will not get er done!!!!

What do you mean about the brass contributing to the WSSM failure? A lot of things contributed to the WSSM failure to capture the hearts and minds of the shooting public, but I have never considered brass problems to be a factor.

I've shot over 1K rounds of WSSM, mostly 25 WSSM, using Federal 223 and 243 WSSM brass reformed to 25 WSSM specs. I use the Federal brass because it is thinner/lighter than the Winchester/Olin brass and expands to seal the chamber better, no smoked necks.

Jeff

the heaviest slugs the factory WSSM twist will stabilize are the 68-69gr match bullets .....also tried 75 gr hollow points , but they won't work , let alone 75gr plastic tips . It's easy to push them at 3500+ at the muzzle though .

Yeah you're right Jeff... there were a lot of things that contributed to the cartridge's failure... what I was saying was that according to the write-ups I'd read from multiple sources the quality of the cases available was severely lacking.

I tend to think that "specialty" cartridges can really hang on if there are quality components available for loonies like us (case in point: 6.5-284, 338-06) but obviously that isn't the case with something like this where the only available brass sucks.

Pre 64 223 WSSM's had 1 in 8 twists.
The quality of the brass isn't lacking. It is thick though.

Pre-64 223 WSSM?

I don't think that I've had WSSM cases fail, either Winchester/Olin or Federal, at any higher rate than any other case. I know that I've fired over 1K WSSM rounds, with the vast majority being 25 WSSMs loaded in Federal brass for my pdog rifle. The Winchester/Olin brass that I have thrown away developed cracks in the necks and shoulders. The Federal brass that I've thrown away either split/cracked when it was being resized from 223 WSSM to 25 WSSM or after it had been reloaded 10x and I started a new set of 100 or 200 cases for a particular rifle.

I have read very little about the WSSMs and most of what little I have read has been written by folks who were disappointed that they couldn't squeeze more performance from a cartridge that is already red-lined or that they WSSMs didn't break any new ground. The only available brass is either Winchester/Olin or Federal and from what I've seen, the Federal brass doesn't suck in the least. It is a minor PITA to make 25 WSSM cases from 223 WSSM or 243 WSSM brass, but not enough to get too worked up about. Much less of a PITA than making 256 Newton cases from 25-06 or 270 brass.

Standard disclaimer; "YMMV and since my experience is mine alone, your experience is likely to be different.".

Jeff

I only use Federal brass in my 223 WSSM - after 5-6 hot loads, barely visible cracks will start to develop.

I had one box of Winchester factory ammo that did this (out of the box factory load):


No more Winchester WSSM brass for me!

No I'm not speaking of failures Jeff, but the reading I did in product reviews and in Precision Shooting suggested overall quality was lacking with regard to wall thickness and issues with cracking necks as early as first sizing.

I'd still be interested in the rifle if it has a 1-in-8" twist though... could be interesting. Not sure what gent above meant when he said "pre-64" since there weren't any of those made in the chambering...

I assume that he was thinking of the pre-2064 Winchester 70s.

I'd appreciate if you could point me to the PS edition with the WSSM article.

Jeff

I haven't reloaded for my 223 or 243 WSSMs, have just shot a few dozen rounds of factory ammo from them, but didn't have any problems with split cases.

All of my WSSM loading has been for 4 rifles in 25 WSSM and most of that, over 1K rounds, has been for just 2 rifles using the 75 grain VMax loaded to about 3700 fps with H4895. I've never had any case failures like that using either Federal or Winchester/Olin brass.

Jeff