Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing 6.5 Waters anybody?

I'm in the planning stages of my next build and am considering necking down and blowing out a 7X30 Waters to something in a 6.5 AI configuration. Are you aware of anything built similar to that?
If so, what can you tell me about it?

Thanks,

Jim

IIRC, Layme Simpson designed an improved 7-30 Waters that was called the 7mm Shooting Times Easterner (7mm STE). You might start, or finish, there.

Jeff

I believe the &mm STE was a necked down .307 win.

Probably so, the 307 brass is quite a bit thicker/heavier than the 7-30, 30-30, or 32 WS brass that I've seen.

Jeff

6.5 Bullberry
http://www.bullberry.com/65bbimp.html



The 6.5 JDJ, designed for 225 brass, could use 30-30 brass, with a larger rim cutout in the chamber.

Bruce

The 6.5 Bullberry piqued my attention. I have not found a drawing of it yet.

Thanks,

Jim

More 6.5/30-30:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2993569/1

Thanks. That was a great thread.
I am not looking for quite as much horsepower as he was. The 6.5 Waters appears to come closest to my aspirations.

What do we know about such?

Thanks,

Jim

What about the 6.5BRM?

I had a 6.5 GR quite a few years ago. It was a necked down 7mm international rimmed, and called the 6.5 Grassl Rimmed. The barrel was a re-chambered 6.5tcu super 14. As I recall the 6.5gr had the std 30-30 body taper, but a 38 or 40 deg neck.

On the upside the gun was very accurate, it would shoot 3 120 gr balistic tips into a 1/2" group with regularity. Also I found that I was getting 6.5 jdj performance, i.e. the 120's were clocking right at 2400 fps, but burning a few grs less powder. As I recall I tried RL 15, Varget, VV N-550 and H-4350. The best accuracy and top speed was with H-4350.

On the downside, no matter what I did to fireform cases nor how I sized them, I could only get 3 firings out of the brass. The cases would start to sepperate right above the web. I don't know if an AI style case with a nearly straight body would cure the case stretch or not. 30-30 brass is on the thin side, and contenders do stretch on firing, which requires the shoulder to be bumped back and eventual case head sepperations.

So I'd look at a 6.5 based on the .225 or better yet 5.56X50R, though I don't know if the 5.56X50R brass is easier to come by now than it was ~10 years ago.

If you tollerate slightly less performance, go with a 6.5mm tcu. Brass is cheap and will last a long time. As I recall you can still get 2200 fps with 120's from a 14" tube.

458 Lott,

This info is fascinating. One of the reasons I was considering the 7X30 Waters is that I understand the brass is heavier and thus thicker in that vulnerable area above the web. I have not weighed any of it nor sectioned it to substantiate those claims. I have some experience loading 30-30 and it also tends to separate there when loaded hot.

I am not familiar with the 7mm international rimmed. Is is known by another name? The specs you have presented are similar to the goals I have envisioned.
Building wildcats is not new to me and I would like to use a Ruger #1 or preferably #3 frame for this build.

Thanks for the help.

Jim

mtmisfit,

That 6.5BRM is sweet! I knew about it and did some reading about it previously and forgot about it. Thanks for the reminder. If I remember they necked up and lengthened 219 Donaldson Wasp brass. I wonder if it is still extruded?
That could afford a little fun beyond normal fireforming. I think they were driving the 140g. VMax near 2500? That's exactly where I want to get. Thanks for the reminder. Appreciate it.
Jim

i've had a few based on various improved 30/30 cases, currently shoot a .25x30-30 ackely Improved, fine shooting round. except for some minor differences in neck length, it is pretty much the same as the 25/35 Ackley Improved.

Had a 7x30 improved at one point, same concept. 7x30 brass is a tad beefier, though i have had no issues with case life in using standard 30/30 brass. Since i had no problems, never could justify paying 3X the price for 7x30 brass to reform.

If your goal is hell-for-strong cases, you can reform .375win, long as you dont mind a bit of case forming and neck turning.
I used some .375's to feed my 30/30ackley Imp carbine, but never had issues with case life in any properly reamed 30/30-improved based wildcats. Then again, all my loadings were for keeping things in the contender-safe pressure levels. And the "improved" form does cut back on case stretch.

If you intend to run this in something stronger than a contender, and dont mind the work, .375win brass would be some stout stuff.

6.5jdj would get you about the same results, .225win brass is easy to come by, plus easier to find dies, no neck turning, etc ...this going into a platform like the Ruger #1/3?

I think Federal 7-30 brass is the same as Federal 30-30 brass. I haven't bought any in 15 or 20 years but it used to be the same. Federal 30-30 brass is stronger than Rem or Win and I use it in my 30-30 if I want a max load. My TC in 7-30 eats brass with full power loads. It is fine if you back it down a little. 375 Win brass is the strongest 30-30 type brass. In a strong action with a well supported case any 30-30 brass would probably work well with the edge to the Federal.

In one of the older speer manuals, as I recall, there is data for the 7mm intl rimmed in the handgun section. It was one of the early wildcats for handgun silouette.

The problem I had was two fold. Contender frames stretch on firing, and thus you have to set back the shoulder when sizing to properly fit the chamber, and the 30/30 brass is thin.

With a Ruger #1 or #3, you don't have to worry about the action stretching on firing, and it sounds like there are other options for brass.