Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why the 270-08 Winchester BEATS a 7mm-08 140 Corelokt

Not much of an opportunity, looks like a good way for the company to lose money. Shoot the two calibers side by side in the field in identical rifles, who could tell the difference, certainly no game animal, and I doubt any rifleman could either,what one will do the other will do. The only demonstrable difference I can see exists on paper only.

10 grains difference in bullet weight and a whopping 90 fps velocity difference.

There are a few issues. Remington won't load for it unless it makes some real progress and grouped in with the 7mm-08,308 and 260 there isn't much room for it.

So it will be loaded only by Winchester, unless federal sees some benefit. Its not going to be on the 14.99 shelf at dicks with 308 and 30.06, heck most of the time 270win can't make that cut.

If its loaded by just winchester, what are the odds that a Barnes bullet will be among the offerings.. pretty low I would guess.

Winchester has a fairly small footprint in the rifle market these days. Judging by what I see, remington, ruger and savage all considerably out sell winchester. Ruger might at somepoint make a run of 270-08 but I wouldn't hold my breath for savage and count Remington out. No 700's and no Model 7's.. that's a big blow for a new round.

338F is a nice round, it offers something different from 308 and it had some support in terms of chambering from ruger,kimber etc and had good ammo availible ( accubond/TSX) and its pretty much still born from a comercial standpoint.

One of the reasons 338F was stillborn was Winchester had the 358 and 325 and Remington had the 350rm so two of the largest rifle and ammo makers were already unlikely to jump in on a larger bore SA

Most here know I am a 6.5 fan, and built a 6.5-308 win before the Saami Asquare/ala 260 Rem came out. It's a good one, yet I find MOST of my shooting is going to be using a 130 Accubond on deer.

Personally I'd rather have something w/o the Remmy name on it, a 6.5x47 Lapua may yet be in my future, we shall see. I like the Creedmoor, but don't like the name, and if I am going to run a round that has proprietary brass, I will run a 47 Lapua.

WTM45 - exactly, all my 'Gack' in my first post is good commentary to SUPPORT the Basic Simple Concept.

It is this guys:

A 270 Winchester - proven since 1925 - STANDING THE TEST OF TIME - for 85 years, ALL rolled up in a short action, w/no more than about 100 fps sacrifice, if that, using modern powders/loads in a 270-08 vs. what loads the 270 built it's reputation on.

MANY factory loads for the 270 bought at 'Mart-Mart' are econo priced loads, simple cup/core that have been doing their stuff for decades.

YET, who offers/uses/buys/builds a 270 Winchester, a long action round, in a compact Short Action Carbine? NOBODY.

The 7/08 found it's niche in a Model 7. The round built it's brand/reputation upon one load, a 140 Corelokt that at inception, and up until more recently, was actually a 139 Hornady for you guru's, and it was actually loaded initially w/IIRC 49 gr of what appeared to be W760, later production showed 1-2 gr less per Layne Simpson. That was 1981. Typical Factory 140 gr 7/08 speeds are around 2800, maybe a little less in carbines, and original M7's were 18.5", unlike the factory test barrels being 24", so there are TWO KNOWN facts here:

1) 270 success since 1925, proven w/130 grain
2) Hunters/buying consumers seeing a 'need' for a compact efficient, effective carbine w/light recoil that youth, women and adults alike can maneuver in tight corners whether thick woods, climbing up a deer stand, or in a deer blind where a long barrel is difficult to get out a window.

Combine the 270 in a short action carbine, which is done best by making into a 270-08, and you have a deer hunting package great for all.

A 270-08 in a M70 Featherweight 22" bbl, and some SS/Syn carbines at 20" to rival Rem's M7, yet with a thicker less 'whippy' barrel, and you have a recipe for a Great handling mild recoiling flat shooting deer slayer EQUAL to my 260 w/130 Accubond.

The 6.5-308 has few flies on it, a BALANCED deer cartridge, yet I doubt the 260 will EVER supplant the success of the 270. YET, to get a non magnum 270, one has to get a long action rifle.

The 270-08 SOLVES that very dilema.

If speed alone sold, every deer hunter would use a 240 or 257 Weatherby round. They don't, not even the swift.

If power alone, the 416 mag's......

I think seeing the long term lackluster sales of the WSM and WSSM shows the 'MASSES' don't feel the NEED for Warp Speed.

The 338 Federal, a great round, yet not setting record sales.

The 270 ALWAYS has been a top choice for deer hunters. It's bore size is known. I believe when it comes to deer hunters in the USA, 3 bore sizes are considered 'Best'....

the 270, 7mm and 30 cal as most feel anything larger is 'TOO big' and kicks too much.......and anything smaller are better suited for kids/women, etc.

Steelhead, as a 'Loony' I WANT a 250 one day, yet we KNOW a 6mmBR with proper bullets will equal and better it downrange and I know a 243 Fast twisted will beat a 250AI Downrange, yet I still want to use one. WHY? It STILL gets the job done, with little blast or recoil, not to mention it's not what every Tom Dick and Harry use.

That same thought process is why many use a 260, low recoil/blast, flat accurate deadly and hey, it's different than the boring '06 and old 270 Winchester, and besides, it's all rolled up in a handy short action package, a nicety to have if you desire.

The concept of a 270-08 may not capture the lion's share of the Loony market as why not a 260 or 7/08, or Creedmoor, etc.

Yet I can imagine a dad telling his son, "How about we get YOU a new rifle in 270, just like Dad's, but in a short light rifle YOU can carry and handle? And w/a little less recoil?

What is NOT to like? Truly if NEED had anything to do w/what we all here use, we'd all be stuck using a 30-06 and I never enjoyed shooting one.........besides, every deer hit w/lesser cartridges died fine when I did my part.

Ballistics and paper comparisons, apples to apples, OR oranges don't kill game.

We all now that. Shot placement w/good bullets DOES - every time.

What the 270-08 offers Joe Blow the deer hunter, is a round he can identify with in caliber size and ballistic performance, in a handy short action rifle.

THAT is what the round offers, and where it would best make sense and what platform would like sell best.

But Winchester doesn't really sell a short light rifle. The Winchester all weathers are closer to everyones normal sporters about 6.5 lbs is as light as they go and they don't do barrels shorter than 22. and to get that light you have a $1100 list price. The rest of the line is even heavier.

No Knees, I think that when a guy thinks 'I need a 338' or medium bore, I want POWER on big game AND reach.

The 338F to my thinking is a real thinking man's practical round, and I would like to try one, yet it's no doubt - still born.

I think the bulk of rifles sold are to deer hunters. Most feel a 338 of any kind is just too big and 'WHY do I need a 338?'

The 325 IMO failed to be more successful NOT due to lacking in ballistics (ironic so many giving me a shellacking for seeing little difference in ballistics) BUT it's a caliber not many KNOW. FEW USA shooters know or want an '8mm' much less heard of a '325' though as John Barsness stated recently:

The industry makes it's bread and butter on the OLDER rounds that are popular already. ANY newbie is just that, a 'NEW' idea to make a fast quick buck and if it starts to fail, 'We bail' NOT putting future advertising dollars into it.

The 270 has nothing to fail.

NO 270 round to date has 'failed' though the WSM series was perhaps a disappointment as a SERIES as the WSSMs. Was it that they 'lacked ballistic differentiation?' NOPE.

Funny NOBODY says anything bad about a 308, and IT was the offspring of the 30-06. BOTH have been very popular. Think LONG ACTION - then go w/'06, if you want a compact short action - a hunter will choose a 308.

REALLY that simple guys, that last paragraph. BOTH 30s are popular. Many 30 owners WANT bigger than 270, 243, and 260, BUT they don't want the recoil of a 338, nor feel the need for the power. WHY? The 30s are PROVEN on game, inc. and especially deer.

Jack O'Connor LONG ago proved the merit and value of a 270.

LIGHTER recoil and flatter trajectory is what differentiated the 270 over the 30-06.

So it is with the 6.5s.....light recoil, flat shooting, deadly power.

ALL that is READILY available in the 270, yet currently not in a non magnum short action round. The 6.8 SPC is 300-500 fps BEHIND the 270-08 and 270 Winchester and I NEVER expect to see it be a popular short action bolt rifle choice.

Just how I see it.

I agree, the .264, .277, and .284 ALL are about THREE PEAS IN A POD when talking 130-140 grain deer loads and stuffed in a 308 case.

TOO close to spit for the difference in trajectory for most sane ranges hunters shoot, nor in recoil, nor in killing power.

I firmly believe ANY of the 3 calibers, in a 308 case w/quality 130-140 gr is very tough to beat for a handy deer rifle in a portable package w/20-22" barrel.

Will it sell? The few here won't decide the fate if it does come out.

If it were launched, it won't fail due to lacking in trajectory, harsh recoil/or perception of (like the 338 F perhaps) or killing power.

The 7/08 took 30 years of being a Saami, the 270, 85 years, etc.

The 270-08 IS a cartridge worthy of consideration as I have NO need, nor want in ANY cartridge of ANY bore size as there is no other VOID left to my thinking. Seeing THIS bore, in a new short action non magnum round, being the one 'void left' in what has been a VERY popular series of cartrides - all based on the 308 Winchester, and capitalizing upon the LONG popular 270 Winchester franchise.

Just how I see it and respect other's opinions on 'need and ballistic gack.

Mine is purely 'a marketing niche/opportunity' if a mfg. wants to give it a go. Time has shown one thing, NEW products will always be tried in the marketplace.

Can anyone think of anything better from a practical standpoint in a bore size PROVEN, save the OOPS....yes the 25-06 WAS mfg. by Remmy, and why not a 25-08?

BUT, we ALL know the 25-06 never sold like the 270...so again.

WHY Not a 270-08? As surely, SOME rifle/ammo mfg. WILL bring something NEW this coming year and years beyond. What will that be?

noknees, I toted a 20" synthetic stocked matte finished M70, factory mfg. in 7mm-08 all over Colorado after Elk and Mule Deer about 15 years ago. They were mfg. in 257 Roberts and 250 Savage ALSO, albeit short runs, the latter also had 1 in 14" twist IIRC.

NOPE, Winchester has ALLOWED Rem to sell their Whimpy Whippy barreled M7s to no end, in a Rem named round on their baby, the 7-08.

Winchester IIRC is owned by the same Co. as Browning, the latter did a good number of Abolt's in Micro Medallion and Micro Hunters IIRC in 7-08 and others.

YES, ironic Winchester was known for the handy '94 30-30 and yet NOT mass produced a carbine in say 20" w/short action.

I say it's time.

Its not been commercialized but wildcatters call it the 270 Redding...Ive thought about it a few time. Maybe my 243 will end up one someday with me being the 270 slut I am. If one of the big companies started chambering it, I would have one for sure.

Killing deer is easy, getting folks to understand that headstamp don't mean much (avoiding the extremes) is apparently difficult.

Never seen deer killed or shots made analytically. Doing trumps all

You make some very good points, but I don't see it happening any time soon. I'm sure it's already been talked about numerous times. The 270-08, the 7mm-08, and the 260 rem as much alike as three buzzards sitting on a tree together, the performance is almost identical. The only possible reason I can think of to go the 270-08 route is to have something different. I have gone that route before, I am the owner of a 7 SAUM, and it prolly serves me no better than a 280 or a 270 would. The common guy doesn't think like us loonies do, they want something that goes bang kills stuff,and be able to find ammo. That is 243,270 win, 308, and 30-06 country. I don't see Winchester chambering the round or people kicking the gun store doors down to get one.

I can appreciate your gacking. I've gone through the exact thing in regard to the round 15-20 years ago. Then I began to ponder a 270 Savage instead, perhaps an even mo-better deal in terms of light, handy, plenty. Had I done that, it would have involved a Model Seven I still have which would have meant a new barrel, of course, and it would have gotten a "proper" stock, the prices of which would have easily turned the whole thing into a $1500 rifle. And for what? As it is, that rifle, just as it arrived to me in 7mm-08, has popped more caribou than I can recount, as well as moose, wolf and countless other beasts when called on. It's actually pretty rare when I use a rifle that I would be able to buy ammo for in any place other than a decent gun shop. (I don't buy much ammo. ) In my view your gacking makes about as much sense as putting a raft of crazy glue-bound fibers onto rifles for handles. TEHO

I know that Winchester had made compact models them in years past but has no current offerings.

There may be some places where lots of Micro Medialions are sold but it sure isn't in the northeast.

Back when the Model seven had those short light barrels, they were a popular gun around here as most of us are woods hunters and carry our rifles some distance. The model 7 has grown heavy and slow (and pretty dam expensive) and I rarely see them in the hands of run of the mill hunters. It seems most I do see at the range are the looney types.

Heck I think that the best bolt woods carbine might be a remington youth 700 with a $50 ebay adult stock on it. (or better yet a Mickey edge, but thats getting looneyish)

Seems like a whole lot of effort to re-create a 60 year-old design......the .270 Titus. This was a "wildcat" made by necking the .300 Savage down to .277" to get (basically) .270 Winchester performance out of the Savage 99 rifle.....and it WORKED very well.

At the time (1940-early 1950's) the Savage 99 was a bit shorter than after the .308 came out and that's why the .300 Savage was the parent cartridge. Since the mid 1950's the Savage was "lengthened" to handle the .308 (and .243 and .358) making the conversion even more attractive. Why this "wildcat" never caught on is a puzzle.

How can anyone argue with a .277" 130 grain bullet at 2850 fps (original) or 2950 (.308 version) in a rifle as "perfect" for a deer weapon as the Savage 99???? Even in a short-action bolt rifle this would be hard to beat.....and I, for one, have always wondered why the "powers that be" chose to go with the 7mm or 6.5mm (.260) instead of the proven .270 Titus as a commercial round.

If we used logic, there would be only about 5 centerfire cartridges made. Logic has nothing to do with it.

We develop a desire for a certain cartridge, then try to find logical justification for the desire.

Don't try to justify it as "needed." "Wanted" is a good enough reason.

Bruce

65BR you have some of the longest posts that I have every seen on "how to pick fly [bleep] out of pepper". Really pointless BS

Your posts are of "Biblical" proportions

65Br,
In comparison, there is no reason for the 270/08 to have been ignored this long.

And what reason would there be for its existance?

You should consider a 6.5 Remington Mag AI or a 257 Weatherby/6.5 AI for a walk on the wild side....just for grins.

I had a Reamer made for the 6.5 Rem MagAI made 20 years ago, with a 29" barrel was shooting the Sierra 90's at 3900 fps into very tiny groups. Rifle shot so well my hunting parnter bought the whole kit & kabootle off of me after a month(he loved blowing up yotes).

Friend Gunsmith in Ga by the name of Bob Sutton(died of a heart attach while quail hunting) had his own wild cat following which was the 257Weatherby/6.5 AI and they slaughtered the deer with the 120g Sierra Match Kings at 3550-3650(26" barrels).

I personally would not screw around with the 270/308 case...waste of time even talking about it. A 25/308AI would interest me much more shooting the 80g Tipped tripple shocks.
The best improvement on a 308 case is the 7/08AI, one whale of a round.

I want the 5 minutes of my life back that I just wasted reading this thread.