Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .22 Hi-power

Just got the latest Handloader magazine in. The article on the 22 Savage hi-power was interesting. Mr. Weiland noted the poor accuracy of the cartridge. Also noted was the twist rate (1:14)and bullet weight (70grs,) used on the Savage 99. I wonder if the twist rate was a 1:7 or 1:8 wouldn't the accuracy have been much improved even on a lowly lever action?

Possibly a reason for bad accuracy is because people load it with .224 bullets. I think it takes a .226 bullet.

Quite possibly so. The .227/.226 stuff is as rare as hens teeth. But, Ibelieve the author stated that he aquired and used the proper slugs. I was thinking maybe the really slow twist.

It actually uses a .228 bullet, and mine is ridicously unaccurate with "proper" bullets. With heavier (63 and 71 grainer) .224 sierras, I get much better accuracy. Sample of 1, but that's how it is.

I think the 5.6X52R used in Europe has a faster twist rate, maybe even the OPs suggested 1:7 or 1:8.

The summary paragraph says it best: even if you manage to overcome all the problems it poses and also manage to eke out decent accuracy, it is a totally useless round to begin with. Way too much for anything small and way too little for anything large.

There are tricks to making the HiPower work. First off, the twist rate is 1-12" in the old Savages which is on the ragged edge for stabilizing the last .227 readily available bullet- the Hornady 70gr. spire point. The original factory loading used a semi-pointed spitzer similar to the bullet used in today's Norma stuff. It was .1" shorter than the modern Hornady and stabilized just fine in the 1-12" twist. The long discontinued Sisk and the more recently discontinued Speer 70 grainers are also short enough, but rare as hell anymore. The solution? Trim the Hornady's (I made a file trim die to accomplish that), shoot nothing but Norma or S&B factory ammo, or switch to .224 bullets of a short enough length (necessitating a change in expander ball in the sizer die). Doing that will provide good accuracy. I routinely get 1 1/2- 1 3/4MOA accuracy out of a 1912-vintage 1899 Savage, tang sights, with enough lucky groups that would prompt some Internet Cowboys to claim it as a MOA gun.

As far as useless: anybody who agrees that a properly placed .223 bullet is sufficient for deer hunting would have to agree that the HiPower is too. It's nearly identical in velocity with 70gr. bullets. Enough deer-size game has been killed with it in the past (and present) to make a mockery of the statement that it's useless. Loaded with lighter bullets it's a virtual twin to the .219 Zipper, one of the most venerated varmint rounds of it's day.

Once again this article is another case of mis-information spread in the guise of "research". Anybody who wants some real-world advice on making this cartridge work, feel free to PM me.

gnoahhh and I have already discussed this a little on the Campfire, and have pretty much come to the same conclusions.
In fact Ken Waters came to much the same conclusion years ago when he did his "Pet Loads" article on the .22 HP: .224 bullets work just fine, and better than the Hornady 70-grain .227" bullet.

The reason is simple: The Hornady bullet was actually designed for European 5.6x57R rifles, which commonly have about a 1-10" twist. The bullet is a little too long for American .22 HP rifles, but can be cut back a little (as gnoahhh does) to stabilize in the American twist.

I found it a lot easier in my own Savage .22 HP rifle to just use .224" bullets. Several shot accurately in my rifle, including the 60-grain Nosler Partition, 53-grain Barnes TSX and 50- and 55-grain Nosler Ballistic Tips--just as .224" bullets shot well for Ken Waters in his research.

I eventually settled on IMR3031 and IMR4895 powder as most accurate in my rifle, but no doubt others would work. These loads all shot into 2" or so at 100 yards, using a Lyman tang sight and factory front bead:

50 Ballistic Tip/ 29.0 grains IMR3031/ 3350 fps
53 TSX/ 29.0 IMR3031/ 3375 fps
55 Ballistic Tip/ 28.0 IMR3031/ 3225 fps
60 Nosler Partition/ 30.0 IMR4895/ 3000

The Partition shot a little better than anything else in my rifle, though not by a vast amount. It works great on anything from prairie dogs to deer.

It seems (on its surface) a cartridge that needs the arm's dimensions to shine, since they seem to vary, along with the components.

I'd make the headspace fit the gun, the bullet fit the throat and groove and fit the twist.

Rocky, on the surface it really just appears to be a giant Hornet....

It would be interesting to toy with, as getting a cast bullet to its original ballistics shouldn't be a tradeoff.

I'd submit that there are quite a few who do NOT agree that a .223" bullet is sufficient for deer hunting. For those who hold that view, the Hi-Power is indeed useless - or at best nearly useless.

It goes bang and can be fun to shoot, but that's about the limit of its usefulness. There is practically no difference between it and the 219 Zipper, and the latter is hardly a renowned hunting round.

Rocky,

I tend to believe in what I have seen work, not on theory. And aside from experiencing persnally that .224" bullets work very well in the .22 HP, I have also seen the cartridge do an excellent job on both varmints and deer.

Of course, the animals were within the limits of an iron-sighted rifle, but within that limitation, the .22 High Power works quite well.

The Zipper was hardly a renowned hunting round (for deer) because it was never offered with a stoutly constructed heavy bullet, not to mention that the 1-14" twists common in .22 varmint rifles of it's day wouldn't stabilize such a bullet anyway.

To each his own views, from each his own opinions.

The HiPower IS a fun cartridge to play with offering sufficient challenges for a rifle loony to overcome. In the hands of a cool customer in the deer woods it'll do fine.

I just got done reading Elmer Keith's Big Game Hunting;

I believe bullets plagued about every cartridge from the 22 Hornet to the 400 Jeffrey...if not on targets, on the meat.

It would be fun to run a TSX or a Partition, maybe even a softnosed cast from the 22 Imp., in fact I have shot some fairly large hogs with the TSX and a cartridge that duplicates the 22 Hi-Powers ballistics. It even one-holes a 70 grain cast bullet at 2,900 fps..

I was a little let down the author quit so easily.

I've thought about getting a beater 22HP and having a new 1-8" twist tube (.224 cal of course) spun on it. That plan isn't dead yet.

It would be neat, for sure.

If I didn't have so much stuff that pretty much does the same thing...

I hear you, cept I like the 99. I like the 250-3000 I picked up but the friggin twist is killing me.

How hard is it to re-tube one (extractor cuts)?

Not sure, though I figure if I can hand twist off the tubes on 2/3rds of the the 99's I own that it can be done without hiring a NASA engineer.

I've been wrong before though.

IIRC, the TD's use an intermittent thread design and taper like the M12 shotgun? I don't know that much about them.

You'd be surprised at how few "gunsmiths" will or should even touch that stuff...

Dad has an old 99, in .22 Hi-Power, that also has a .410 shotgun barrel. Very easy to swap from one barrel to the other.

Kind of a neat old rifle. Tang sight, brass rotary magazine, two very different barrels. I haven't shot it much over the years.

Interrupted threads on TD's made early on. Later ones used regular uninterrupted threads. Like most things Savage, that's probably not cast in stone. (A little extra screwing never hurt anyone anyway.) Any competent smith who knows his way around a lathe can fit a new barrel. A new tube with a 1-8 or 9 twist is something I'd like to try too.