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Yep they're known to need corrective action taken on their firing pin holes... I forget what the procedure is known as... my model 14 325 Wizzum needs it too...

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Originally Posted by aalf
I've had 8 and 8 1/2's and haven't seen a velocity advantage with the slower. My go to load was H-4831-SC at 3060 with the 142's in 30" tubes. Primer pockets still holding after a dozen firings. 140 VLD's seem to prefer 3 grains less at 2950 or so. All moly, all hard in the lands.


I sure have and I will go so far as to say I see even more improvement in 1-9 twist but some barrels don't really stabilize the bullets good enough to use them at lower elevations.

I can shoot great groups at the range in prescott, AZ (5500') but they don't shoot worth a hoot at the range in Mesa (1400') I guess they are on the ragged edge of stability.

I competition, we used to find the best accuracy at around 2900 fps. When I switched to 8.5" twist I could go as fast at 2970 with good results (28" barrel) never shot a 9" twist in a match but with a shorter barrel, I can push them just about 25 fps faster.

I prefer 130s for the vast majority of my shooting, I feel like the added velocity pays off at the 600 and under shots that I mostly take. I am a big fan of the 130 Norma Diamond Line.


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i use 1 in 8.5 twist barrels. the loads out of the norma manual 58.7 mrp-2 and a 130; or 56.4 and a 139 are awesome long range loads. over 3100 for both out of mine krieger.

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378Canuck,

Slow getting back to you. Been hunting. Those loads work great in my Pre-64 M-70 with Krieger SS Match, 8.5 twist Bbl. The Vv 165 load of 52.3 seems a bit hot with Berger 140's. No primer problems, just shiney marks on the case head and slight resistance opening the bolt. Subtle, not blatent signs. Perfect performance 52.3 gr. Vv 165 with SST 140's, which has been my stand by load.

Over 48.8 gr. RL-17, groups opened up with SST's. Haven't yet tried the Bergers with RL-17. If one was wanting to push 140's at or slightly above 3,000 fps, I think RL-17 would be the way to go. I don't know of any other powder that can do that.

I see people using lighter bullets, and I may try some. I had chosen the 140's for their retained energy at extended range. Performance was so good, I haven't tried other weights, as this gun is mainly used for Whitetails and Pronghorns, with the occasional 'yote or hog.

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IMR4350 will do 3000 fps but this powder is not as temp stabilized as the ones you mentionned.


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I failed to mention that my gun has a 26" bbl. and is a hunting sporter. Will IMR4350 push a 140 gr. bullet at a consistent 3,000 fps without using a 30" target barrel?

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Can't speak for the shorter barrels because mine is also 30 inch.
Don't know how much diff 4 inch would make. it would be interesting to try the same reloads and crony the difference.

Nephew was hitting pop cans at 460 yds about 75% the time with my rig last fall and he's just turned 14. I find this round very accurate.


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From what I've read, experienced and chrono'ed, sustained 3,000+ fps performance w/o pressure in a sporter type 6.5-284 with 26" bbl and 140 gr. bullets is pretty much RL-17's exclusive territory.

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Accuracy first, speed's secondary......

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Nice to have both. The RL-17 loads in my 26" 6.5-284 sporter weren't the most accurate, but still at 1/2" and shot a consistent 3,000 fps even with the S.D.'s which were pretty tight. At no time did I chrono less than 3,000 fps at 48.8 gr. Over that amount, groups started opening up and at around 50 gr. they were 1 1/2" with early pressure signs in a gun that has shot groups in the teens and twos. For hunting, RL-17 would be OK. For target work, I'd stick to 52.3 gr. Vv 165 at 2,950 fps. That's where the teens and twos come from with 140 SST's and 140 Berger VLD's.

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My game is 1000 yard Benchrest, but I've also had 4 or 5 700's and an XP-100 built, just for pleasure. For a little background, I won the 1K three gun championship six years in a row in Pella, Ia, so I'm more than a internet jockey.

While I've tried 17 in 2 or 3 other calibers, I found it didn't give any appreciable velocity gains, and was too inconsistent in accuracy from day to day. I have tried around 10 different powders for the 6.5-284, but not 17. At this point, I probably won't.

I'll take H-4831SC all day, every day in a 6.5-284.

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Have you tried any IMR 7828 SSC...tried some this year in my 264.. accuracy and velocity is very good...don't know about the longggggg range but you might give it a try. smile


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Tried it in my .257 Weatherby, not in the 6.5-284. In the .257 WM, it was OK, RL-25 was the best. It's slower IIRC than Vv 165. May be too slow and bulky for the case capacity of a 284 sized ctg. Probably wouldn't be able to get enough in the case for good performance.

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This is the SSC version of 7828 which is advertized to be 4% less dense..this what you used ?


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I lost over a third of my first Krieger barrel chasing the holy grail of accuracy and extreme spread. Never again.

Checking my notes, I tried H-4350, H-4831, H-1000, 7828,(before SSC)R-19, R-22, R-25, Magnum, VV-165, Retumbo, and maybe others. Plus Sierras, Bergers, primers, seating depths, neck tension, blah,blah,blah....

I ended up just buying 48 pounds of H-4831SC, Lapua brass(a given) Fed 210M's, seat 'em into the lands and give'er hell. Sierra's accuracy was at 3060, the Bergers were at two grains less. Actually, the Bergers are at the same charge weight that JB found shot the best with his ER Shaw barreled gun he wrote about in TVH mag.

The advantage to buying a large lot of powder is that there's no guessing when you get a new barrel. You know where to start and where you'll probably end up.I shoot the same load now in all of 'em, whether it's an 18" XP or a 31" comp gun.

How's this for a test bed....62 pounds worth. Bat dual port action, Jewell trigger, cast/stainless 42# stock with an 8" forend, 3" butt, 31 inch 13 pound 1.45" straight, barrel blocked 8 twist Broughton, 12x42 NF in Kelbly rings on a Bat 50 MOA base.

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Shooting 140s I presume?? may have to try H-4831 SC...


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Yup, 140 Berger VLDs or the 142 SMKs.

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NICE!!! now that's a machine!!! smile


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Here's a target from the new barrel on the gun in the pic.

These are the FIRST rounds down the barrel, no breaking in, shot at 500 yards. Moly plated 142 Sierras, seated in the lands for a square mark, H-4831 SC, in Lapua brass, and 210M's.

After running the 53-56 grain test, I loaded up 5 more at 56 and shot them to double check. Good 'nuff, I quit. I ended up shooting the 56 grain load at 3100 even with an extreme spread of 4! However, the primer pockets started to loosen up a bit after two firings, so I backed off a grain. The brass is still going, btw.
I'd suggest you don't try this load w/o starting much lower. This lot of powder, which seems to be on the slow side, combined with the moly, is fine in all of mine, but not necessarily yours.


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These have been like hen's teeth for waaaaay too long.

The brown truck just puked these out......


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