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KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame #4855754 01/24/11
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norcalblacktail Offline OP
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What do you guys think based on the pictures? I for one am looking forward to trying it out and comparing it to my NICE frame and Terraframe in terms of comfort. I only live an hour from the soon to be headquarters so Ill be sure to do a comparison for you guys when it comes out.

Kuiu Icon Frame

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[img:left]http://kuiu.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dsc_00521.jpg[/img]
[img:left]http://kuiu.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dsc_00532.jpg[/img]
[img:left]http://kuiu.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dsc_00421.jpg[/img]




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Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: norcalblacktail] #4855797 01/24/11
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Brad Offline
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Interesting.

For a few applications might be ok. Looks awfully short to my eyes and there's no way to get it shaped to one's back if yours falls outside their pre-bent shape... unless they're offering custom shaping which would be great.

I can't believe that thing will be in the same load carrying class as the Terraframe, but I've been wrong before.

Seems to borrow heavily from Arcteryx Altra... that's a problem for me... the full wrap around hipbelt with the Altra-like riser bump in the lumbar is a torture device for my back. I absolutely MUST have a good lumbar pad with belt passing behind it.

Would add, there's a reason full wrap around belts were mostly abandoned years ago by most pack makers... seems a new generation of young pack designers are fixing to re-discover what was figured out in the early-mid 1980's...


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: norcalblacktail] #4855835 01/24/11
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Kevin_T Offline
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I think it's a great idea and looks pretty solid. I'm highly interested myself, Of course a lot will have to do with the bag


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Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Kevin_T] #4855897 01/24/11
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kenaiking Offline
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Bags are going to be interchangeable.

Looking forward to your review! Don't forget the numbers will be limited so get it quick when they come out in May.


"It's my main love for all things Ackley. Plus the dude was cool before cool was cool."

SH08
Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: kenaiking] #4855936 01/24/11
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340boy Offline
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The execution and workmanship(especially the carbon fiber) looks nice. I will be curious to see what sort of bags become available.

However, my back is a bit on the curvy side, so I don't know how I would fare with such a pack.


"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
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Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: 340boy] #4855960 01/24/11
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Brad Offline
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Tim, when I get some time I'll put up a review of the Altra 75 from last summer... pretty disappointing pack in the important ways (suspension) and I re-learned why I dislike full wrap around belts so much (for my curvy back)... hadn't had one since they mostly disappeared in the early 80's


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Brad] #4856060 01/24/11
Joined: Oct 2006
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340boy Offline
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Originally Posted by Brad
Tim, when I get some time I'll put up a review of the Altra 75 from last summer... pretty disappointing pack in the important ways (suspension) and I re-learned why I dislike full wrap around belts so much (for my curvy back)... hadn't had one since they mostly disappeared in the early 80's


I would like that, Brad.
Thanks!


"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker







Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: 340boy] #4856316 01/24/11
Joined: Sep 2003
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Calvin Offline
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This pack has been the topic of a few conversations at the gym lately. I'm in wait and see mode, and hoping one of my buddies takes to plunge so I can check it out.


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Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Calvin] #4856632 01/24/11
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russ_outdoors Offline
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Carbon fiber, like most materials, comes with pros and cons. Here's a few that relate to pack design:

Pros - High strength to weight ratio and can be custom designed for shape and flex.
Cons - Shape cannot be altered by user and when it breaks it's broken.

What I find interesting is the sudden resurgence of CF in pack frames. Kuiu, Kifaru and Titanium Goat all have new packs out this year with CF in one form or another. My first real mountaineering pack, a Gregory Denali Pro from some 20 years ago, actually had CF stays. It was touted at the time as state of the art and the next evolution in pack frame construction. You can imagine my surprise when a few years later Gregory went back to aluminum stays in the same pack. :-)

Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: russ_outdoors] #4856690 01/24/11
Joined: Oct 2000
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Brad Offline
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Wayne Gregory shaped the stays to the users back as I recall, as a custom option (the carbon was offered as an upgrade over aluminum). At least that was the state of things in the mid 80's when I got my first Gregory. Same currently with Kifaru I believe.

Absolutely nothing wrong with carbon fiber stays, just can't fathom not being able to custom fit the stuff... although likely not as critical with the full wraparound belt... which is another thing I can't believe some makers are going back to...


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Brad] #4856860 01/24/11
Joined: Feb 2008
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RockChucker30 Offline
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I wonder if flex will be an issue with a framesheet that thin?

Patrick Smith commented on his search for a wood/CF laminate and said that pure CF flexed too much to properly transfer really heavy loads to the hips. He eventually found a solution he was happy with.

Just wondering if testers will experience that with the Ti Goat and Kuiu frames?

With Kifaru, Ti Goat, and Kuiu all coming out with carbon fiber based frames it'll be fun reading reviews for the next year or so.

Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: RockChucker30] #4857543 01/24/11
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Huntr Offline
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Looks interesting! One thing for sure, companies are sure giving us some GREAT options these days.

Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Huntr] #4857551 01/24/11
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,563
Brad Offline
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Maybe.


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Brad] #4857594 01/24/11
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Huntr Offline
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Brad,
Not just referring to this concept, lot's of good stuff to try nowadays.

Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Huntr] #4857687 01/24/11
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hekin Offline
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Good points guys. Be nice to let some other guys test out the packs with there $500++ smile CF seems like a cool idea though...

Just wishing someone would buy the rights to start remaking the old K2/Dana Externals. The would make a killing as they are a premier load hualer.. Wonder why Mystery Ranch does not make it as a "Classic Design" or something... With a few modern upgrades of course.... : ) New materials, upgraded waist belt, some old magic wands..

Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Huntr] #4857889 01/24/11
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,563
Brad Offline
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Originally Posted by Huntr
Brad,
Not just referring to this concept, lot's of good stuff to try nowadays.


Chip in every area EXCEPT packs I'm absolutely with you... honestly I feel that pack design has, for the most part, gone backwards.


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Brad] #4858202 01/24/11
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Huntr Offline
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Brad,
Interesting as the whole pack world has made quantum leaps for me. However, don't EVEN get me started on boots! Sheesh!

Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Brad] #4858244 01/24/11
Joined: Oct 2009
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evanhill Offline
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I note that the Kuiu has magic wands much like the Dana externals. They're part of the frame, but serve the same function. I also note that there are quite a few internals with similar wands. To me, those wands are the genius of the Dana externals. Everything else about the Dana externals is solid, but pretty ho-hum. Lots of room for improvement.

I've wondered more than once if Dana is getting any kind of royalties on all of the "magic wands" out there, or even if he was the first to use them.

Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: evanhill] #4858529 01/24/11
Joined: Oct 2000
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Brad Offline
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Originally Posted by evanhill
I note that the Kuiu has magic wands much like the Dana externals. They're part of the frame, but serve the same function. I also note that there are quite a few internals with similar wands. To me, those wands are the genius of the Dana externals. Everything else about the Dana externals is solid, but pretty ho-hum. Lots of room for improvement.

I've wondered more than once if Dana is getting any kind of royalties on all of the "magic wands" out there, or even if he was the first to use them.


I noticed that too... however, they seemingly dispensed with shapable stays and went with a full surround belt. Big step backwards IMO.

Aside, Osprey borrowed the "side wands" from Dana (where they first showed on internals, not externals) and, IMO, made a better pack with the 1990's Fusion, then later Crescent's.

Arcteryx also borrowed them on the Bora line and still have them. The Osprey Argon still has them in a slightly different guise... yeah, they work and was one of the best three or four design features of the original DD packs to me.


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: KUIU Icon Carbon Fiber Frame [Re: Brad] #4858601 01/24/11
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 28,563
Brad Offline
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There's plethora of new packs on the market without removable stays. Pack makers are increasingly taking away options rather than offering substantive ones. With few exceptions, packs are increasingly getting lighter, but not better IMO.

Internal frame designs that rely on aluminum stays NEED to have them removable for precise individual fit. Some frames, like the Granite gear which are flexible and bend to the back, aren't in this category, but are more of a hybrid, but they're also limited in weight carrying ability IME.

As a visual example, below are the stays from an Arcteryx Bora 80... on the left is how they come from the manufacturer... on the right is how they look shaped to my back... explain to me how not being able to shape stays is a good thing?

I've heard the explanation (excuse) you can bend them without removing them... and get the fit precise? No way.

Thankfully, while the Bora 80 is not a "perfect" pack (no pack is), at least some Arcteryx, some Mystery Ranch, and Kifaru packs (and a few others) haven't lost sight of the need for removable stays...

[Linked Image]


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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