Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General 30-30 Buffalo Bore ammo 190gr

I don't dispute the effectiveness of 170's in a .30/30. Hell when I'm feeling lazy I just grab a box of 170 Silver Tips and go for it. If nothing but that bullet weight was available I would still be loving life.

As for the .303, I treat it as any other .30/30. Not enough difference to sneeze at. My point is, a 190 gr. bullet loaded to full performance with safe pressure compared to a 170 loaded likewise has the edge ballistically- which may, or may not, matter in real world scenarios. As for modern technology giving "an edge" to old tried-and-true technology, great, but who really cares? Aside from advancing the general state of the gunning art (which is a good thing) in reality it is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist. (But does allow an ill-informed guy to believe his old M94 now has the "killing power" -whatever that is- of a .308.) Advances in the ammunition technology is wonderful, as long as one doesn't buy into it myopically and devolve into a "dedicated follower of fashion", ie: technology for technology's sake.

I will stick with my "heavy for caliber" cast bullets in all of the .30s. They give me great flexibility in load development simply by jockeying the lead alloy makeup- and I won't go broke buying the "latest and bestest" bullets and ammo that hit the market. Obviously you have never killed deer with a soft 190 grain flat nosed cast bullet launched at 2000fps. It's something to behold. Talk about tissue damage and "way over penetration"!

I'd be pretty careful even considering Buffalo Bore ammo. For one thing, they are not members of the SAAMI. Which means they don't adhere to their standards as do the vast majority of ammo makers.
Second, I've seen two sepatate cases where their .45-70 ammo locked up Marlin rifles in good condition for which that ammo was supposidly designed.
No thanks. E

I think that if the .30-30 is all you have to hunt with, then it would make sense to go with a heavier bullet for bigger game. But for elk, I think you want to keep shots at 100 yards or less with the .30-30. However, given a choice, I would prefer to go with something more along the lines of a .30-06 class or larger caliber rifle for hunting animals larger and/or tougher than deer or if you are hunting somewhere that generally requires longer shots.

No but I've shot a damn good many with "soft lead" slugs of .50-.73 caliber and 350-600 grains at 1400-1800 fps and they don't make 'em one bit deader, one bit quicker than a 170 grain jacketed bullet from a .30-30. I don't believe for a minute I'd find any "magic killing power" hiding within the "ballistics" of a 190 grain .30 cal.

No magic, and I hope I didn't imply that there was any! My point is to not knock the use of bullet designs and weights that don't fit inside the parameters of common knowledge if you haven't tried them, and that old technologies kill as well as as new.

Montana, I agree 100%. If game heavier than deer were in the offing I would be reaching for something with more oomph than a .30/30 too. But if push came to shove, I wouldn't feel terribly undergunned with a .30/30 and heavy bullets- up close.

It's another choice, and I'm glad to see a company like BB offering this, and the rest of their line of ammo.

The advantages of a 190 over a 170 are as debateable as comparing a 170 to a 150. For deer, they are all proven.

If a 30-30 was all I had, I'd choose the 190gr load for bigger critters, or carrying one in the back country for personal defense. The advantages may be mostly psychological, but there's certainly no downside.

Now that I agree with. I've never shot a critter with any of these new fangled "super bullets" everybody seems to think they need these days and I doubt I ever will. The old fashioned lead and jacketed lead stuff works just fine.

Thanks guys for the replies.

Jeez, did we actually answer your question?

Kinda!

\

The 170 Np will get it done for You if You handload, if not Federal will load em for You in there premium line.



Gunner

Thanks Gunner!

The "secret" to the success of the .30-30 is (and has always been) that it uses a relatively heavy bullet at a velosity that allows a fairly flat trajectory over 200 yards or so.

No matter how you try, the .30-30 will NEVER be a .308 or .30-06. It makes no sense to try to make it something it was never intended to be......such as using a lightweight bullet (130-150 grains) in an effort to flatten trajectory and thus losing the one thing it does well......penetrate!

The .30-30 made it's reputation with a 170 grain bullet and that bullet still works today. It's not spectacular, but it does the job it was intended to do with a heavy bullet at relatively mild velosity. Dropping down to a 150 grain bullet will not gain enough extra velosity to make the .30-30 into a flat-shooting killer......but it will reduce penetration to the point that it may (or may not) do it's job on heavy game.

The .303 Savage was basically identical to the .30-30 ballistically, but had a reputation for being a better killer on larger game (elk, moose, ect.) due to one thing......a heavier 190 grain bullet. It penetrated better and thus killed better. THAT is the "secret" to using a relatively mild round on heavy animals......bullet weight!

The Buffalo Bore loads with a 190 grain bullet in the .30-30 duplicate that performance. Will it kill better than a "standard" 170 grain load???? Probably not in most circumstances.....but it DOES give a bit of an edge if things aren't just right. It will duplicate those eary .303 Savage loads that earned a reputation over the typical .30-30.....for a REASON. They work!!!

Thanks TR

Even old war horses like the .30-30 benefit from advances in propellents. The performance offered by B.B.s new load wasn't (safely) possible until fairly recent times. That's no critique of a proven cartridge/bullet combination. It's just some added icing on the cake. I could see a place for this load. It starts the 190 gr. bullet out at about what most factory loads push 170's. What's not to like (beside price-grin)?

Just remembered: Sam Fadala has written about pulling 190 gr. bullets from .303 Savage to load in his .30-30s "back in the day".

PC

One thing nobody has mentioned about the buffalo Bore 190's is their "hard" construction. They're specially made for BB by Hawk bullet co. with an extra hard core with only 20 gr's worth of soft lead poured in on top for a soft tip. As a result, they expand VERY little even when shot through heavy bone. They do penetrate well but I seriously doubt they'd kill deer sized game as efficiently as a softer 170 gr. that will expand to much greater degree.

So penetrate better on larger game?

Yes, but at the expense of a narrower wound channel. If I needed to shoot through elk/moose shoulders or stop charging grizzlies with a .30-30 for some reason, I'd consider the BB ammo. Outside of that, I'd stick with 170's.

I noticed BB describes them for elk, moose, bear defense. I believe the intent is to offer a 30-30 loading with an advantage for use on the bigger critters.

We used to use the 150gr load on deer, and it always blew right through with a big exit on broadside hits.

The 30 WCF did not make its reputation on 170's. For decades after its debut, the standard offering was a full patch, or a semi-patch 160 bullet that nipped at 2,000fps.
Over time, velocities increased, and bullet weights offered grew more varied, including light for caliber small game loads with lower powder levels, and the familiar 125, 150, 170 weight split we have today.
The differences in velocity between the 150 and 170 grain bullets can be as much as 400 fps, which is significant in the venerable 30. In order to boost any 190 grain bullet to 2,000 fps, which is the nominal velocity for most 170 weight cartridges, it is necessary is to exceed maximum mean pressures. This is possible for BBA because they are NOT a Saami manufacturer. This also means that you accept certain givens if you choose to use this ammo, and that includes risking yourself and your gun.
In the days when loading 190s into the 30 WCF was popular, the prevailing idea was that ballistic coefficient was the key to controlled expansion. This was only true given equal quality of bullet construction. In similar bullets, the one with the better b.c. often penetrated better. The limits of standard cup and core construction were reached and exceeded on a regular basis in those days, by many, many factory cartridges from America to the tropics.
The true secret to better performance was discovered by custom bullet makers like Mr. Nosler. True controlled expansion was accomplished via better alloys of core and jacket, together with tapering the jacket, and exposing less lead. It was this advance that revolutionized bullet technology, and provided for superior performance without resorting to dangerous pressures and heavy for caliber projectiles.
The use of 190s in the 30 WCF is a small, short chapter written by tinkerers and long since closed. Last I heard, Mr. Fadala, who remains a stalwart fan of the 30 WCF, is fond of premium loads by Winchester Ammunition, all of which feature a 150 grain bullet.
If you want or need penetration the premium offerings from Nosler, Hawk, and Barnes will provide better performance without the risks.
As to why anyone would wish to use premium bullets? Simple, because they make the 30 more effective in marginal, or difficult shot situations, and increase the effectiveness of the cartridge as an efficient and deadly round.