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Any of you guys try this heavy 30-30 load ? Would it be ok for elk size game in short range hunting?

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[bleep], you don't need to spend the money on Buffalo bore ammo to shoot elk with a 30-30. I personally prefer anything in a 338 but I hunted for years with a 30-30 and work for an indian tribe where I've seen numerous bison dropped with a 30-30 using 170grn bullets at 150yds or less. One big bull took 3-shots to anchor, but he was wounded prior during roundup and he wasn't providing much of a shot.

I know that isn't the answer you are looking for, but a couple off well placed shots and you'll be fine without spending the extra money.

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Thanks 4x4Mag

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Yes people get caught up in the power thing and not what been going on a 100 years or so. I for one this happend to

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I have not personally tried this ammo, but I've heard at least one report that expressed disappointment at this load. Frankly, its hard to imagine the purpose of slowing down the old 30 with this heavy of a bullet.
Right now we have the best bullet technology available. If you need to shoot factory loads look for Federal-they load either the Barnes or the Nosler right now-either are fantastic bullets. Winchester has a new bonded core 30 WCF load out, and Grizzly loads the Hawk premium soft point. Any of these choices will greatly improve the performance of the 30WCF.

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Was the 303 Savage with the 190gr a fair combo?

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The last 190 grain loads made for the 303 I'm aware of were Winchester Silvertips. These loads would work fine on deer, but with a thin jacket, they opened up quite quickly, making them marginal for heavier game.
Considering that the 30WCF has worked fine on deer for 100 years with a 150-160grain bullet, want to tell me exactly what the extra 30-40 grains are for?

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I regularly use 190's in both .30/30s and .303 Savages, albeit they are cast lead bullets though. Cast soft and driven @ 2000fps, the wide flat points on them expand like crazy and "way over penetrate". If I were to use that combo on larger game, I would merely cast them from a harder alloy to gain more penetration. No need for expensive premium bullets here.


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One very good reason for not using cast bullets which project into the case is accuracy. Accuracy regularly suffers since hot powder gasses will press on the base of the bullet, deforming it.
This obduration can also raise pressures, since the bullet must be squeezed back to groove diameter upon entering the rifling.
Another very good reason is that a 170 cast bullet is more than sufficient-if properly cast and lubed-to handle anything the 30 WCF is suitable to hunt.

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Mak your post is sooo off that i wouldnt even know where to start, first would be it "obturation" and how would extending farther into a case cause more gas cutting????? Both bullet bases are subjected to the same gases????? Im at a loss here.....

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When a cast bullet extends into the case, it has the base, and shank of the bullet in contact with the powder. When that powder burns it becomes a gas. This gas is going to work on that exposed surface, and its going to deform it. When a bullet obdurates, it shortens and widens to fill an available area, in this case, the shoulder of the cartridge brass. There is no guarantee that this process will happen uniformly. What do you think happens to accuracy when a deformed bullet leaves the bore?
No, it is not the same as the gases operating on the base of a bullet, supported by the neck of the case. Here, the force of the expanding gas acts purely to launch the bullet. In the example of using a long bullet, and any 190 grain cast bullet is going to have a longer shank than neck length, given correct OAL in the 30WCF, those same gases are allowed to operate on the entire exposed area of the cast bullet. This will, in fact, negatively affect accuracy, can easily lead to leading, and pressure issues, as stated above.

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Originally Posted by cutNshoot
Any of you guys try this heavy 30-30 load ? Would it be ok for elk size game in short range hunting?


I do not have experience with Buffalo Bore's .30-30 load, but I have shot 1000's of rounds of Buffalo Bore ammunition, both rifle & revolver, cast and jacketed and have found it to be as good or better than the premium offerings from Federal & Hornady. Both from a consistency and from an accuracy stand point. I have found that Buffalo Bore's published velocity claims are more accurate in real world guns than what customary from other manufacturers.

Buffalo Bore 's .30-30 load is a jacketed flat point not cast. It is also listed at 2100 fps and Federal's premium load is a 170 gr Nosler partition at 2200 fps, so I don't see that you are losing much velocity with Buffalo Bore.

Sorry if I am off topic, but I tried to answer the question that was asked:)


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Well, Mak, theoretically what you say makes sense but in the real world it has no meaning. I have proved that to my satisfaction many times over during 40 years of casting and loading, and not with just the .30/30 but with several other cartridges with much shorter necks, including the .300 Savage. I make no bones about liking heavy bullets in these calibers and have experimented with weights up to 220 grains, mostly cast bullets. If the effect you're referring to really takes place, the effect would be magnified by using a soft lead bullet. This argument has been batted around ad nauseum in forums and in print for many years and the consensus is always: don't worry about it. Sub-MOA accuracy with many loads in the 180-200 grain weight range speak for themselves.

When hunting with a .30/30 or .303 Savage I want every last bit of performance available to me without stepping into the realm of high pressures. That's why I favor 190's in the .30/30. I applaud Buffalo for providing a load of that weight commercially. Maybe more people will now try that weight bullet and see what they've been missing all these years.

Don't forget, the original factory load for the .303 Savage was with a 190 grain bullet. Hunters "back in the day" acknowledged that the .303 Savage had a slight edge performance-wise over it's nearly identical (in terms of case capacity) cousin the .30/30. That 190 grain bullet was why.


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Would that load take the 30-30 out of just a deer class combo?

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
When hunting with a .30/30 or .303 Savage I want every last bit of performance available to me without stepping into the realm of high pressures. That's why I favor 190's in the .30/30. I applaud Buffalo for providing a load of that weight commercially. Maybe more people will now try that weight bullet and see what they've been missing all these years.
Please enlighten me. I've been using a .30-30 with jacketed 170's for deer and black bear since 1977 with complete satisfaction.

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Gnoahh is talking ballistics, and you're talking personal satisfaction.

Two different things, and neither is wrong.

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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Gnoahh is talking ballistics, and you're talking personal satisfaction.

Two different things, and neither is wrong.
Well, since I've killed deer from 10' to 314 yards with the 170's and the only bullets I've ever recovered were from lengthwise shots {brisket to hip} I'm just curious as to what I've been missing.

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If you're getting complete satisfaction with 170s, that's all you really need to know.

The rest is ballistics.

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Frankly, I could not disagree with you more. We have plenty of empirical data backing up the deformation of exposed lead bullets. What we have been treated to, endlessly, is the fast and light vs. slow and heavy argument, which you rehash here.
The 303 was loaded with a jacketed, not a cast bullet, and the cartridge was associated with so much fantasy, that like the 22 HP, it required a few hunters getting stomped into the dirt, and failing spectacularly, before reality hit.
You do, however, make a point that is correct-some loads simply shoot well in our gun, and we don't always know why. Probably this is the reason so many of us say our rifle "likes" a particular load.
I should mention that it was somewhat common in decades past to see handloaders go with a 180-190 cast for the 30WCF. Back then they thought these loads gave them an edge. The reason almost no one wastes their time here anymore is because today's premium bullets actually do provide an edge, without the loss in velocity or rise in pressure that comes with the heavy for caliber bullet.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
When hunting with a .30/30 or .303 Savage I want every last bit of performance available to me without stepping into the realm of high pressures. That's why I favor 190's in the .30/30. I applaud Buffalo for providing a load of that weight commercially. Maybe more people will now try that weight bullet and see what they've been missing all these years.
Please enlighten me. I've been using a .30-30 with jacketed 170's for deer and black bear since 1977 with complete satisfaction.


Once again, if it aint broke, why fix it? I've been using 170gr with consistently excellent results. Core-Lokts are hard to beat for my application. If I want to shoot elk, I use my 444Marlin or 30-06. But I know, guys just like to dink around with stuff.

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