24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,727
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,727
Did I ever mention a bullet weight? No I didn't.

The best I've ever got from a 24" barrel swede was 2900+ with the 120 Nosler solid base. Personally, I prefer the 129-130gr bullets for any 6.5 caliber gun. they will do anything the 140s will, and do it with more velocity.

I do believe the 6.5x284 can add more than 150fps to the swedes velocity with those bullet weights, unless people are really stretching the facts of their guns.


I don't drink or Smoke. I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline.
BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
6.5x55 data at modern pressures:

Nosler #6 manual, 23" barrel: 140-grain Partition, 2790 fps (52.0 H1000)

Ramshot on-line data, 24" barrel: 140-grain Partition, 2778 fps (49.8 Magnum)

6.5/.284 data:

Nosler #6 manual, 24" barrel: 140-grain Nosler Partition, 2906 fps (50.5 VV N165)

Hodgdon on-line data, 24" barrel: 142-grain Sierra Matchking, 2901 fps (49.5 Hybrid 100V)

These are all the top-velocity listed in each source of data. You'll find other sources will have the same sorts of numbers, IF they list modern-pressure 6.5x55 loads.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
260 Rem 22" barrel

130 Swift H 4350 45.2 2,900 mv.

6.5-284 24" barrel

130 Swift RS Magnum 61.0 3,150 mv.

That's 250 fps difference between the two AND I'm willing to bet the 284 case did it with less pressure.

You could take 40 fps off for the longer barrel on the 6.5-284.

So say an extra 200 fps. That's the normal difference between a magnum case and a standard.

Well worth it to me.

With a 260 I get

120's at 3,020
140's at 2,800
No dif between it and a 6.5x55.




Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
What advantage does 250 fps add, in terms of a flatter trajectory?

JEff

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
I looked up Ramshot data with Magnum and 120-grain bullets:

6.5x55, 2821 fps, 55,000 psi
6.5/.284, 3245 fps, 62,000 psi

So yeah, the 6.5/.284 is getting 300 extra fps but at considerably higher pressure.

Here's Hodgdon's data for 120's:

6.5x55, 2913 fps
6.5/.284, 2979 fps

Hodgdon data for 129's:

6.5x55, 2792 fps
6.5/.284, 2910 fps

Nosler data for 120's :

6.5x55 (23" barrel), 3002 fps
6.5/.284 (26" barrel), 3175 fps

Please note the barrel length difference in the Nosler data.

My experience is that barrel length makes a difference of 25-30 fps per inch on average, not 20 fps. This is with cutting the same barrel, not by comparing different barrels.






“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
IC B2

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720
Why is a 140gr over 2700fps important anyway? Lots of game has been killed with less....
Why can't we slow down a little?
I think we are pushing thru life too quick these days....

Last edited by rifle; 01/31/11.

Come on America,
Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's




Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
Quote
So yeah, the 6.5/.284 is getting 300 extra fps but at considerably higher pressure.


I was comparing 260/130 data to 6.5/130 data.

Even so, I'll take the performance and eat the pressure. After all, it's a hunting round I'm looking for not a target round.

Quote
My experience is that barrel length makes a difference of 25-30 fps per inch on average, not 20 fps



Ok 5 fps dif. I did say 50 fps less to take variations into account.
This is really splitting hairs! grin


Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
Quote
What advantage does 250 fps add, in terms of a flatter trajectory?


For me, it's more than just trajectory.

For the long range shooter, it's bullet impact and opening up the bullet proper.

Most bullet makers will tell you what minimum impact is needed for the bullets to open up and work as advertised.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
SU35,

Whatever.

Thanks to a lot of time spent in various pressure laboratoris, I long ago developed a large amount of skepticism about velocities and pressures in home handloads.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
Quote
I long ago developed a large amount of skepticism about velocities and pressures in home handloads.


To bad PO Ackley and his followers don't heed that.

IC B3

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
OK, if the additonal speed isn't about flatter trajectory, would you pick a bullet, any bullet, and tell me what difference 250 fps of MV actually makes regarding that bullet's impact and opening? I shoot a lot of Noslers and have yet to see a Partition of any caliber/weight that failed to open and penetrate. Of course, I'm not shooting game at particularly long ranges. 400+/- yards would be a very long shot for me to take unless the intended target had an exceptional set of antlers.

JEff

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
Yeah!

One other thing I've found interesting about the recent turn of this thread, initiated by dmsbandit and his sudden interest in the 6.5/.284, is a post from him last year about shortening the barrel on a Marlin .308:

"I never even fired the gun before the barrel was cut back, so I have no idea how much velocity I lost with the 4" of barrel with this gun. Some guns are faster than others so I might have lost 100fps or 300fps with the 150s. But as you and I are well aware, it isn't velocity that kills, it's placement of the projectile that does the killing."

I have my own notions about velocity, having used various smokeless-powder big game rifles with muzzle velocities anywhere from 1800 to 3700 fps, but our friend bandit is apparently VERY ambivalent about it, depending on which day he's posting.




“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
IIRC, POA is long dead and people that embrace his published reloading data as if it was given to POA by GOD himself on an Egyptian mountain. Like the guy with a 257AI who was claiming 3500 fps with 115/117/120 grain bullets, all using "safe" POA loads. Pressure? What does pressure have to do with this?

JEff

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
Quote
OK, if the additonal speed isn't about flatter trajectory, would you pick a bullet, any bullet, and tell me what difference 250 fps of MV actually makes regarding that bullet's impact and opening?


Well, first of all, I never said it's not about flatter trajectory. It's that and more.

Your question begs asking to those who shoot a 264 Win mag 7mm Rem or 300 Win mag. (308 vs 300 on big game at 300 yards) We've hashed this out time and again and I'm not going there.

Under two conditions I see it making a significant difference.

Those who shoot Barnes bullets and those who shoot past 500 yards.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Velocity is not inconsequential.

If it were we would have never progressed beyond the 30-30, the 7x57, and the 30-40 US.

We did and I for one am very happy we did.


The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
But then I like the added velocity of a 24" barrel more than I like any supposed benefit of a shorter tube too.


The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
I posted:

"What advantage does 250 fps add, in terms of a flatter trajectory?"

Then you posted:

"For me, it's more than just trajectory.

For the long range shooter, it's bullet impact and opening up the bullet proper.

Most bullet makers will tell you what minimum impact is needed for the bullets to open up and work as advertised."

Then I posted:

"OK, if the additonal speed isn't about flatter trajectory, would you pick a bullet, any bullet, and tell me what difference 250 fps of MV actually makes regarding that bullet's impact and opening? I shoot a lot of Noslers and have yet to see a Partition of any caliber/weight that failed to open and penetrate. Of course, I'm not shooting game at particularly long ranges. 400+/- yards would be a very long shot for me to take unless the intended target had an exceptional set of antlers."

Then you posted:

"Well, first of all, I never said it's not about flatter trajectory. It's that and more.

Your question begs asking to those who shoot a 264 Win mag 7mm Rem or 300 Win mag. (308 vs 300 on big game at 300 yards) We've hashed this out time and again and I'm not going there.

Under two conditions I see it making a significant difference.

Those who shoot Barnes bullets and those who shoot past 500 yards."

I guess that I misunderstood what you posted. I don't think that I've ever shot anything but pdogs and 'chucks at ranges over 500 yards and I know that I've never fired a Barnes bullet at a varmint, so I guess that the 250 fps difference wouldn't be something I need to concern myself with. My 6.5mm bore rifle inventory is currently limited to medium case capacity rounds like the 260, 6.5x55, 6.5-284, and 256 Newton. No 6.5-06, 6.5-06AI, 6.5 SAUM, 6.5 WSM, or 264 Win Mag in stock at this time.

JEff

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,440
Jeff,

For 6.5 bullets.

IF I was a long range hunter out to 1000 yards.

I think 60 grains of powder is plenty good for that range.

50 grains and less for ranges lesser.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,249
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,249
I thought about building up a .260 or 6.5x55, then realized I already have two nice 7x57 and thought WHY?

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Ack!!!! Who needs a reason to have redundant rifles?

7x57 times 8
260 times 22
6.5x55 times 8
6.5-284 times 4
256 Newton times 2

Seriously, if you don't have a quick twist 22-250 that might be a place to look. 1-9" ROT 22-250 and 60 grain VMax for coyotes and 60 grain Paritions for deer. Fast, flat shooting, and hard hitting.

JEff

Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
151 members (257_X_50, 338Rules, 444Matt, 32_20fan, 358WCF, 1minute, 19 invisible), 1,972 guests, and 949 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,726
Posts18,400,650
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.114s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9024 MB (Peak: 1.0572 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 06:43:23 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS