|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396 |
In my 'quest' for an accurate small bore .223 rifle I've read many excellent reviews for the Rock River Arms rifles.. Many of these reviews claim accuracy of 1/2" with their Wylde chamber offerings.
I've been looking at three of their models; the Varmint rifle, Predator Pursuit, and the Coyote..
All three have the Wylde chamber, 1 in 8" twist, and 3/4" or better guarantee.. Looks like the Varmint and Predator have heavy stainless barrels, while the Coyote comes with a chrome moly barrel.
Weights for the Varmint are 8.7 LBS with the 18" barrel and 9.2 LBS with the 20" barrel.
Wights for the Predator are 7.2 LBS with the 18" barrel and 8.1 LBS with the 20" barrel.
The Coyote comes with 16" barrel at 7.0 LBS and 20" barrel at 8.4 LBS.
Anyway, I'm leaning towards one of the stainless barrel models (Varmint or Predator) with either the 18" or 20" barrel.
The rifle will mainly be use for varmint hunting, mainly coyotes, at ranges up to 300 or so yards, and I'd probably use heavy for caliber bullets.
Any real difference in accuracy between the Varmint, Predator or Coyote models? I assume there isn't that much of a performance difference between the 18" and 20" models, but the longer barrel models are somewhat heavier. Does the extra barrel weight of the 20" models make the rifle 'balance' or feel any better than the lighter 18" models?
I haven't checked prices on the Predator or Coyote models, but I did find where I could get the Varmint rifle with either 18" or 20" barrel for around $1,050, which seems like a decent price.
Thanks for any and all information...
![[Linked Image]](http://dogsdoom.com/PI/nam-vet.jpg) 'Nam Vet '67, '68, '69
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 377
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 377 |
I've a shooting buddy with an 18" varmint. I have the Coyote Rifle. It's a draw as to who's will shoot the best. They are both silly accurate. I feel the RRA is THE best value available off the shelf.
The Coyote is a 1:9 unless they've changed. I would stick to a 1:8, as I feel somwehat limited by my 1:9.
Unless you're doing serious bench work, the Predator Pursuit is a fine piece of equipment to fit all your needs. The 18" Predator was not available when I ordered my Coyote, otherwise it would have been the clear winner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
I had a RRA Stainless 16" varmint. They are very heavy barrels. I can't imagine using an 18" or longer for coyotes, overkill weight and barrel wise.
I see no reason to go above an HBar type profile for coyotes or a walk around varmint rifle.
18" is the magic length IMO for AR's for these purposes, but I don't see where they have an 18" in the Predator.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396
Campfire Member
|
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396 |
18" is the magic length IMO for AR's for these purposes, but I don't see where they have an 18" in the Predator. Yeah, that was my mistake. I checked the RRA webpage again and the Predator Pursuit comes with either the stainless 16" (7.2 LB) or 20" (8.1 LB). Not sure if the longer 20" barrel would be better, or if the shorter 16" barrel would be fine for general varmint hunting out to a maximum of 350 to 400 yards... I don't mind rifles with a little weight to them, but the 20" model weighs about a full pound more than the 16" version..
'Nam Vet '67, '68, '69
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 144
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 144 |
I have a RRA Predator Pursuit, 20in Stainless 1-8 twist bbl. It is phenomenally accurate, but that wasn't always so. When I first got it I tried everthing, careful handloads, gold medal match ammo, nothing worked. I called RRA, they said send it in, they sent it back with a sweet shooting new bbl. So, their guarantee and customer service is very good.
It wieghs 10 lbs 4 oz, with a loaded 20 round mag and a 3x9 leup. in a LaRue take off mount. I wanted the 20 bbl for every fps I could get, and it really likes Hornady 75 gr HpBt match bullets.
Have to figure out for yourself if that's too much wieght or not. In 3 ft of snow it is a bit much but otherwise I don't mind it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396
Campfire Member
|
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396 |
It wieghs 10 lbs 4 oz, with a loaded 20 round mag and a 3x9 leup. in a LaRue take off mount. I wanted the 20 bbl for every fps I could get, and it really likes Hornady 75 gr HpBt match bullets.
Thank you very much for that information.... I'm 6'2", 195, and in good shape so I don't think the extra weight of the loaded/scoped 20" Predator would be a problem. I'm also use to lugging around my M70 stainless .375 H&H, and I would imagine that it is close to the same weight of the 20" RRA. It also sounds like the RRA Customer Service is very good, and that is nice to know when purchasing a rifle 'on-line'.. Thanks again..
'Nam Vet '67, '68, '69
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,063
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,063 |
I have an 18" RRA Varmint that is fun to shoot at the range and would be a nice choice for prairie dogs but it's WAY too heavy for toting around. The 20" Predator Pursuit would be my pic as an all-around rifle but I'd opt for a SS 16" to 18" mid-length standard weight carbine for a walking/calling rifle.
Biden's most truthful quote ever came during his first press conference, 03/25/21.
Drum roll please...... "I don't know, to be clear." and THAT is one promise he's kept!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,822
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,822 |
I have the 20" Varmint Special and love it. Mine wears a fixed 12X in a Rock River one-piece mount. Yeah, it's heavy, but super stable and is very accurate. For walking around, I'd have to second the 18" Predator Pursuit or the Coyote. I don't mind lugging around mine, but then I've earned the nickname "Special Ed" for a reason  Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,291
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,291 |
In my 'quest' for an accurate small bore .223 rifle I've read many excellent reviews for the Rock River Arms rifles.. Many of these reviews claim accuracy of 1/2" with their Wylde chamber offerings.
I've been looking at three of their models; the Varmint rifle, Predator Pursuit, and the Coyote..
All three have the Wylde chamber, 1 in 8" twist, and 3/4" or better guarantee.. Looks like the Varmint and Predator have heavy stainless barrels, while the Coyote comes with a chrome moly barrel.
Weights for the Varmint are 8.7 LBS with the 18" barrel and 9.2 LBS with the 20" barrel.
Wights for the Predator are 7.2 LBS with the 18" barrel and 8.1 LBS with the 20" barrel.
The Coyote comes with 16" barrel at 7.0 LBS and 20" barrel at 8.4 LBS.
Anyway, I'm leaning towards one of the stainless barrel models (Varmint or Predator) with either the 18" or 20" barrel.
The rifle will mainly be use for varmint hunting, mainly coyotes, at ranges up to 300 or so yards, and I'd probably use heavy for caliber bullets.
Any real difference in accuracy between the Varmint, Predator or Coyote models? I assume there isn't that much of a performance difference between the 18" and 20" models, but the longer barrel models are somewhat heavier. Does the extra barrel weight of the 20" models make the rifle 'balance' or feel any better than the lighter 18" models?
I haven't checked prices on the Predator or Coyote models, but I did find where I could get the Varmint rifle with either 18" or 20" barrel for around $1,050, which seems like a decent price.
Thanks for any and all information... As pointed out the Coyote comes with a 9" twist. The Varmint and Predator Pursuit with 8" twists. I for one like the 8" twist rate for enhanced bullet upset out of gas charged, short barreled guns, which will usually run a little slower than a bolt action counterpart anyway. To me the midlength gas system guns (16" and 18") seem to handle better than the full length guns, so I also agree with whoever said that an 18" AR is just about perfect. It's a good compromise between handling and minimul velocity loss. I just ordered an 18" Varmint upper and chose the Varmint over the PP because an 18" PP was not offered. Yes, it is a pound heavier but in my case I intend to send it off for fluting with instructions to remove as much weight as possible. This will mean deep wide flutes not only from the gas block to the muzzle but under the handguard as well. The barrel of the Varmint measures .920" ahead of the gas block but is a full 1" in diameter from the gas block back to the breech. There is allot of weight to be lost there with agressive flutes, IMO. If an 18" midlength Predator Pursuit were offered, it would be a no brainer................. For the purchase give Rhonda at PK Firearms a call http://www.pkfirearms.com/ ! They have most RRA stuff in stock. I think RRA is currently quoting 4-6 week back orders. PK Firearms has great prices, even better service, and you can mix and match parts with them to get the exact rifle you want. As an aside, here is a link to some info regarding velocity loss with different barrel lengths in Ar's. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._16_midlength_chrono_results#Post4862873X-VERMINATOR
Sooner or later our heritage of hunting is going to be a rich mans sport and the words "Outfitter" and "Hunt Industry" will be synonymous with cancer and A.I.D.S. among blue collar hunters like me and my family! (A.L. Williams - 2010)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,023
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,023 |
You might want to check with Pete at ar15sales.com too. I bought my Predator Pursuit complete upper from him and he beat every other price that I could find. I looked for a long while before I made the leap. Mine has been silly accurate from the get go, but I built it for my wife on a billet lower from Denny's Guns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396
Campfire Member
|
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 396 |
Thanks for all the information....
I will check with the firms mentioned and get an idea on current prices etc........
'Nam Vet '67, '68, '69
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 41
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 41 |
FYI--I just ordered a RRA 20" predator pursuit with an extra C4 upper (just for fun). I found that ordering through my local dealer saved me a couple hundred off the internet pricing.
I assumed that I would be using the 55gr. bullets for prarie dogs. Is anyone using this combo with good accuracy?
-George
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
My predator persuit was scary accurate w/ 50gr v-max
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008
Campfire Savant
|
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008 |
I have the RR Varmint with a 20 Barrel. It isn’t that heavy. I ordered another. I never thought I would own an AR, but they are fun when you catch a bunch of pigs!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://a65.tinypic.com/120to2u.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,095
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,095 |
I don't think you can go wrong with RRA, YES the company is behind the times and dated with their offerings. but if I was buying a complete gun, I would not consider anything else than RRA. I am also not sure there is a more accurate gun out of the box for any amount of money. Their barrels tend to be hbar type profile which is to say heavier than some others. but its not bad. I have had a complete gun and another RRA barrel, also helped 2 friends with their guns. They all shoot MOA or less. 1/2 MOA is another matter all together. YES you can get that kind of accuracy from an AR here and there, but IMO its more of a fluke. The disadvantages the platform has in being an auto loader prevents re loading techniques used in bolt guns to achieve that. Also the chambers can't be as tight as a bolt gun. so I tend to think people cherry pick groups when they talk of 1/2 MOA from an AR. I would say if your shooting consistent 3/4 moa be happy with that. the AR is a 300 yard gun, MOA is more than enough accuracy than you can really use.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,843
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,843 |
I've got a 20" Varmint and love it. It's shot under 1/2" with everything I've put through it. It is a pig and I don't like lugging it around as a "walking" rifle. But, it is very soft shooting and way accurate.
I swapped out the fixed stock for a collapsable (their operator CAR stock) and my kids used it as their deer gun while they were little.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,267
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,267 |
I have a Lar15 that I purchased on sale at Scheels a few years ago, it was my first Ar and I don't regret it. With one of my favorite handloads I shot a 1.7 inch group at 400 yds.
Last edited by Freddy; 02/23/18.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008
Campfire Savant
|
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008 |
I load the 62 Barnes with Varget powder. That bullet rips pigs a new ass!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I don't think you can go wrong with RRA, YES the company is behind the times and dated with their offerings. but if I was buying a complete gun, I would not consider anything else than RRA. I am also not sure there is a more accurate gun out of the box for any amount of money. Their barrels tend to be hbar type profile which is to say heavier than some others. but its not bad. I have had a complete gun and another RRA barrel, also helped 2 friends with their guns. They all shoot MOA or less. 1/2 MOA is another matter all together. YES you can get that kind of accuracy from an AR here and there, but IMO its more of a fluke. The disadvantages the platform has in being an auto loader prevents re loading techniques used in bolt guns to achieve that. Also the chambers can't be as tight as a bolt gun. so I tend to think people cherry pick groups when they talk of 1/2 MOA from an AR. I would say if your shooting consistent 3/4 moa be happy with that. the AR is a 300 yard gun, MOA is more than enough accuracy than you can really use. its uncommon, but I have a buddy that has tight chambers, and neck sizes only all of his brass.. and he rarely if ever had any misfeed or jam.. so it is possible. As to .5 moa, its generally almost always available with a TOP brand barrel that is well set up and hopefully floated, and with a top trigger. But "factory" stuff is as noted... MOA generally easy. I usually think along the lines if you get a factory gun to shoot honest .75 or so MOA at 100 you should be happy and thats about as good as it gets with standard stuff.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
One more thing, if spending over 1000 bucks I"d sure go look at a builder like White Oak, or folks that post here, or Compass Lake or the like. If you are after best accuracy, spending 1000 on an upper would help.
Especially with stock lowers going 179 or so I saw last week, but without a good trigger....
You shouldn't be all that far off cost wise to go that route... if accuracy is really important.
If you are after pigs in a pen like hanco or not shooting tiny targets past 300 about any RRA will work. As will many others.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
614 members (007FJ, 01Foreman400, 160user, 2500HD, 204guy, 257 roberts, 59 invisible),
2,293
guests, and
1,182
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,640
Posts18,455,347
Members73,908
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member651.png)
