Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Any .33 WCF fans?

I have a friend who owns an '86 in .33 WCF (which, I believe, was the most common chambering for this classic). Kinda neat story: when he was a kid, he used to borrow it from a widow lady in our small Upper Peninsula (Michigan) town during deer season. One season, he offered to buy it. Price: $10! (This was, perhaps, 50 years ago, still...)

The classic has been stored away for a while. I've been trying to talk him into putting the rifle back in business. I noticed this week that Midway has Lee .33 WCF dies, at normal Lee prices. I've also found a company that makes the old Hornady 200 gr. FP. Anybody have experience loading this old war horse...or using one, for that matter?

PC

In the immortal words of Ben Stein: "Anyone?....Anyone?

PC

I've never used one, had it's big brother, the .348, and have load data in a Hornady manual. But, never pulled the trigger on one.

Peter, i have a bunch of winchesters and a couple 1895 marlins in .33 caliber. I dont hunt them but i have friends that do ,and they like them for thick brush hunting. Don

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the responses. It would seem that the good old .33 WCF is pretty much off the radar screen even among the levergun hardcore. Too bad. Seems like a nice medium range cartridge, but the .348 certainly makes it look pretty tame.

PC

The 33 WCF was the first smokeless only round for the 1886. The parent case is the 45-70, necked to .338 cal. The 33 was pretty popular out here.
Locally, the old 33 carbine accounted for Lion, Bear, Elk, and Deer. Recently it was sold off before I knew about it. If I had known, I would have stopped that sale, and gotten ahold of it myself.
I admit to being a little jealous of your association with the 33. I already miss shouldering that great 1886. For us, and our mountains, it was as good a cartridge as anyone ever needed.

Well, Mak, just to be clear, the rifle doesn't belong to me. I haven't even seen it. My friend has been telling me about it for a few years and I've just started bugging him about bringing the old girl out of mothballs. He's not a gunny and has no knowledge of how relatively easy it would be to get him into some safe, good, handloads. i've offered to help him. Ultimately, the choice is entirely his.

When I was a kid, I remember holding my uncles '71/.348 with awe. I just can't imaging having an '86 in good shape without doing something with it. Then again, I'm not a collector, I'm a user.

PC

OK, I stand corrected.
I think the issue with the 33 today is that it is hovering somewhere around "collector" status. Last time I was at the big independent gun store, they had a 33 in the take down. With zero blue, shrunken stocks, and slight pitting, they wanted $1,850-and were not in any mood to negotiate.
Guess I'm getting too old, but for the life of me, I could not figure how they could demand that kind of coin.
Out of interest, you said you found a source that is making the Hornady bullet? Would that be Hawk bullets?
We used to take Remington 45-70 brass because it was thin, and neck it down to 338 cal in a couple steps. Brass loss was pretty high, but the 33 chamber was tight, so the cases never needed a lot of re-sizing.
The 33 caliber was pretty much invented by Winchester, and it is still a good one.
I think I know what you mean by the awe of those 71's and their .348 cartridge to young eyes. Something about blue steel and real wood, the smell of oil, and the heft of a real rifle. Nothing else like it.

I just gave an entire box of 33WCF to a dealer at a gun show.

There wasn't a dealer there that knew the 86 came in the 33.

If I recall correctly, the last new 33 WCF's were made in the mid 1930's. This round was only offered in the 1886, and the 1885 single-shot. This means that no new guns have been made for longer than some folks live. They might have been made available on a limited basis after this date as Winchester used up the parts, but the 71 was the successor to the '86, and the 348 was the successor to the 33.
Ever since the ol carbine slipped away, I've been looking to replace it, but the prices demanded even for examples that need a gunsmith are on the long side of ridiculous, especially considering that factory ammunition has not been available since the 1970's.
Dad's carbine was a shooter, and that's what this next 33 will be, when I find one for a realistic price. Wish I'd a known you before you gave that box away-was it Remington, or Winchester?

Looks like Midway has the brass, too; albeit a bit expensive... http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=541144

I saw a nice one for sale in Cody WY around 86 for around $400-500 as I recall. Thought if only it was some other caliber regret not buying it. It was in great condition as I recall just did not know anything about the caliber.

Mak, They made a few 71's in 33. also !!!! less then 10 if i remember correctly, a friend has one and i been after it for years !!! Don

Don,
Is there any way you can post a picture?
I've heard about the 71 in 33 for so long now, I can't count the years, but you are the first person who has actually verified they were more than factory prototypes.
KK,
I've seen examples that wouldn't be fit for paint stirrers going for $2,600 + tax. Honestly, I wonder who is crazy enough to pay this much for so little.
The 1886 is a great gun, but used is used, and used up is gone. Considering that Winchester/Miroku regularly release new production 1886's, for less than half this coin, I wonder what these folks are drinking when they come with these prices.

Mak, It s not my rifle, the fellow that owns it is a member here, he lives about 80 miles from me. I can see if he will send me the serial number, i have had it in my hand the barrel is roll stamped ,winchester model 71 .33 cal., pretty neat ,i got to figure out how to add it to my model 71 collection !!! Don

Don,
If your friend is a member, maybe he wouldn't mind sharing with the few of us who love the 33 a few pics? Maybe too hopeful, but I'd like to see one, even if its just a photo.
Have also heard that there a few 71's floating around in 45-70, but that's for another topic!

PC, Who is the company making the old Hornady 200 grain flat nosed .338" bullet? I could use some of those. My .33 is a take-down '86 lightweight and while I don't use it very much I do have the dies, bullet moulds, and plenty of ammo. It's a great brush gun with the same general performance as the .35 Remington.

Mak, He doesent take photos, but i did talk with him ,its a deluxe ,long tang, 13,xxx serial range, He did say he talked with George Maddis years ago about it and they made only a few of them. and they also made few in 45-70. Don

Thanx, Don.
Sounds like its an especially nice one!
Mike,
In terms of .338" flat nose bullets suitable for the 33 WCF, you can shoot cast, and RCBS still makes a mold for a 200 grain pill, or you can visit Hawk premium bullets. They offer three different weights for the 33, have for a long time.
I don't have any knowledge of the bullets PC is referring to, if he is talking someone other than Hawk-however, Hawk bullets are pretty darn good, if you need jacketed.

Bought a 90% solid frame, Extra Lightweight in the mid '90s at a WACA show for $500....it had been D&T for a Lyman receiver sight and I lucked into a 38 at that same show....Vince McMahon had it and we installed it at his table....sight cost me $400 and I was happy to get it...

Killed a nice buck with it and the 200 Hornady FP....fortunately, I have a stash of those bullets which I gathered up over the years before they were discontinued....the load is a moderate one, running around 2200 fps and produces groups in the 2 inch range....

For once in my life I was at the right place at the right time.....didn't hurt that the rifle's seller was a Winchester purist who couldn't stand the sight of that rifle with the extra holes in the receiver.....

I have handled 71s in both the .33 and .45/70....very high dolllar guns....and most befitting of the admonition about caveat emptor....

Great lucky break right there.
I am reminded that at times, fortune can smile quite brightly. Your handload is right up there with factory ballistics. We used a couple different powders, but those 200 grain JFP's all clocked at or around 2200 fps. I read a brief by Brian Pearce a few years ago, where he had temporary custody of an almost N.I.B. 1886/33 WCF. I recall that he found the gun capable of sub-moa accuracy with factory loads. Ours was well used, and a little too tired to shoot that well, but the 33 accounted for all manner of big game and pests.
If I found a deal like yours, I would not think twice before picking it up!

I shoot an '86 rebarreled in .33 WCF. It has killed a nice whitetail buck with handloaded cast 240 gr fp bullets. First one killed him but the next two shots stopped him from running into posted land. He only went 20 yards total. The bullets were all full penetration through the chest. First one left to right and the next two at angles. Not too much meat ruined either. Nice gun needing a replacement butt stock and a peep sight installed. P/O reblued with the rebarrel. Rusty Z

Anyone here buy ready formed 33 WCF? One can start with 45-70 virgin brass, go to 40-65, then 38-56, then .33 WCF. I bought Starline 40-65 virgin brass as at the time I saw no economical 33s. Then I had only two steps to 33. Anyone have an economical source I could tap for cases? I had some reloads with the gun from a Connecticut Arms or other little known custom loader. Every load had a split somewhere. But I salvaged the 200 gr flatpoint jacketeds from them. Looked like the cases had not been annealed. RustyZ

I HAVE A SMALL AMOUMT OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE .33 WCF . I

I HAVE A SMALL AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE .33 WCF . ITS A CALIBER I LOAD AND SHOOT A LITTLE AND HAVE EVEN HAD THE PLEASURE TO HUNT WITH A FEW TIMES. IF I RECALL CORRECTLY OFF HAND MY LOADS ARE IN THE RANGE OF 2100 TO 2200 WITH 200 GRAIN FP HORNADY AND A CHARGE OF IMR 4064 . NOTHING FLASHY LIKE MOST CARTRIDGES FROM THIS TIME IT JUST WORKS WITHOUT ALOT OF FUSS AND FLASH.

Not doubtin you Loggah but that seems like an aweful high serial number for an experimental 71?
Our canadian prices keep rising faster than I care to see, I sold a minty 33wcf T/D last year for $2,500, & a minty 348 long Tang Deluxe for $2,500.
All that aside the .33 is still my fav 86, I kept a nice 33 rifle to play with. I just run a 45-70 into a .33 die, trim to length & neck turn & I'm good to go. Can't remember what load but I bought a bunch of Horn 200s when they came out. At 2,200fps or so will kill anything I care to shoot at

Sorry never could figure out how to get a whole gun in one pic



Hey I just discovered I even have a pic of my 33 rifle!

I am new to this site but in browsing through it I noticed this stuff about the .33 Winchester so figured that I would toss in my two bits worth. I have a .33 that was made in 1910 and is a "Take-Down" version. It was previously owned by an old Game Warden out of Anaconda, MT before I got my paws on it. Of course, being a Gun Nut as I am I did some messing around with it and through the course of playing with about 30 some odd loads and reading old magazine articles, I settled on using 53 grains of the old style 4831 with the Hornady 200 grain jacketed soft point. When I found out that they quit making that bullet, I found out that Buff Arms is now making that same bullet so I got a bunch and now am happy to have a bunch. As far as brass is concerned, I started using original cases and then went to 45-70 cases which are a snap to make into 33 cases and now Jamison is making .33 brass with the proper headstamp and it is nice stuff. I also picked up a Lee factory crimp die to go with all the other stuff. My rifle only has blueing wore off at the front of the frame and the rest of the blueing is about in 80% condition and the bore is almost factory bright. I don't think that it was ever fired much till I got hold of it. Hope this information is of interest. Oh one other thing, I also have an RCBS mold to go along with the rest of the stuff. .33 factory ammo is now at a premium at Gun Shows. Glad I got all mine when I did.

Here is a little more info. The chronographed velocities on that 4831 load came out for an average of 2033 feet per second and the muzzle energy came out at 1835foot pounds. It is dead on at 25 yards and again at 125 yards. The data for this load came from a 1977 issue of the Handloader. The other bullet mold that I have is or was made by Rapine and my rifle seems to like it better than the RCBS mold. I really like my little rifle and intend to pass it on to my son.

Late again to this 2011 subject. Over the years I have
gotten hold of 3 1886 rifles in 33 WCF. One was found
in Tucson, a LTWT half magazine version. One is a special order 2/3 magazine 1886 with checking. The last is a TD-LTWT half magazine rifle. They all shoot well.

I have a supply of Hornady FP bullets and some good Hawk bullets.
IMR 4198 is a good powder for the 33 with 200 gr bullets. The well constructed Hawk 200 gr bullets will kill
anything that walks in North America including Canada and Alaska.
Ben Lilly, the famous lion and bear hunter of the Southwest
in New Mexico and Arizona-carried an 1886 in 33 WCF.

Has anyone ever used the Hornady 250 grain round nosed bullets? Iv seen a box and just wondered as I only read about 200 grain bullets.

With any bullet weight beyond 210 gr-the velocity will drop off enough to affect mid range bullet trajectory.
That negates the intention of the 33 WCF/1886 cartridge.