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TeamRealtreeHD: I agree that the 221 Remington Fireball is a VERY efficient cartridge and capable of VERY good accuracy.
But... in the "entire 223 cartridge family" I have several examples of cartridges that are more accurate in my experience - these include several of my Rifles in 222 Remington, several of my 204 Rugers, a 222 Remington Magnum, and a 17 Remington.
Also the best group I have ever fired with an all stock factory Rifle (not including my 40X's) was done with a Remington XR-100 in caliber 223 Remington. That group (5 shots at 100 yards) measured .121"!
So although I am up in the air a bit - I think the 222 Remington has a definite edge in accuracy and the 204 Ruger cartridge (at least in my 5 factory Rifles) is more impressive accuracy wise than my 221's.
And this - I need to point out one small difference I have with your posting - you may have just hit the wrong numeric key on your keyboard - I believe it is properly referred to as the 222 Remington family of cartridges not the "223 cartridge family" like you posted?
After all they (the family of cartridges that followed) were all derived (based on?) the original 222 Remington - were they not?
Yes the 221 Remington Fireball is accurate, it is very quiet, it is very low of recoil, it is VERY slow to warm a barrel, the barrels last forever and it easy VERY easy on brass (brass life) - whats NOT to like?
Long live the 221 Remington Fireball!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: I did some research and the 222 Remington was introduced in 1950 versus the 223 Remington which was introduced in 1964 - so the "parent" was 14 years old when the 223 was introduced.

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You got some accurate rifles there.

The .221 I am currently working with consistently outshoots the others in that family of cartridges I own. I am speaking from the 100 yard mark here. Second most accurate is my old 700 BDL in 222. I have an engraved model 700 BDL in .223 that is close to both, but I actually didn't spend enough time with that rifle to make an honest decision. Also didn't play with enough components either. I took the scope off it and it is now a collector that isn't shot. It's one of my prettiest rifles...

The only one I have yet to play with if the 222 magnum. I'm waiting on an old 700 in great shape

You are correct in pointing out the 222 family. Not an error in my typing, an error in my thought process grin

The 222 was what started it all...

I will admit, as it is an honest observation by me on my shooting of these fine cartridges, that I spent much more time with the .221 than the others. I had some pretty impressive groups with the 221, 5 shot groups that measured in the .2's. But I can't, or the rifle can't, consistently do this. I can consitently get the rifle to go in the .3's and .4's... the target I posted was not it's best, it was actually a target from the day I posted this thread. It got me thinking about starting this thread that day. I actually didn't measure that group, I don't measure many groups anymore. If they cloverleaf or bughole, that's a good shooting factory sporter weight laugh

In better words, out of my rifles, my 221 is my favorite, and is my most accurate. Not necessarily anyone else's of course. I grew a liking to it because of it's rarity. It grew on me very fast due to nobody around these parts having it. Another reason I grew to like it so much was the low powder consumption, yet still being able to do most thing I do with the slightly larger case capacity members of that family of cartridges. It won't go hand in hand with them, but for what I use them for, it does everything they do. For anything more with a .22 caliber pill, I have the swift and others.

I read somewhere, and it sticks well, that "don't make the .221 into something it is not". This hit me right away and there is alot of truth in there...

I'm going to be spending a good bit of time in the near future on a new 204 rig. I'm finishing up some loads on another rifle, in the final tuning stages. Then it's time to play with that one.



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20.5gr -AA 1680 -40gr nbt

221FB is a dream come true varmint/predator cartridge.


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Originally Posted by ol_mike
20.5gr -AA 1680 -40gr nbt

221FB is a dream come true varmint/predator cartridge.
Same load here with moly on my 40 gr BT's


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I read somewhere that the .222 was somewhat like a scaled down 30/06 and if you compare the .221 to the .222, the .221 looks like sort of like a scaled down .308 so it's no wonder it's efficient.
I have a M700 laminated stock version in .221 and on two occasions, it has shot 10 shot groups of < 0.5" at 100 yds with the Berger 40 gr HP and a top load of IMR 4227. The 40 Blitzking seated out pretty far and Sierra 40 gr HP aren't quite as accurate but they're close (and a lot cheaper).All of these loads give 3200 fps.
Mine doesn't care too much for either of the 4198's or L'il Gun but that's the way it goes. It does pretty well with the 40 V/max but doesn't like the Ballistic Tip at all even after moving the seating depth around.
I like mine a lot and it's not going anywhere; it's a neat little rifle.
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TeamRealtreeHD: Best of luck with the 204 Ruger project!
That is ANOTHER wonderful cartridge in the 222 Remington family of cartridges.
Let me expound on the 221 Remington a little bit more and the Berger 40 grain bullets I use in one of my 221's.
This bullet/cartridge/speed combo seems to be just amazing in its lethality on all manner of Varmints.
I have been using this bullet for about 8 years now and my impressions of it are all good.
I hope you try this bullet in your 221 Fireball sometime.
I am not so sure that MY Rifles are any more accurate than other folks factory guns - I just put LOTS of scope power on my Rifles and I refuse to shoot them for load development and/or sight-in verification groups on days when the air is MOVING!
About 20 years ago I simply QUIT shooting for group assessment on days when the wind is moving.
It took me about 25 years of serious range work to come to that conclusion and to figure out that it is almost futile to try to do load development or do accuracy checks when the air is moving!
I get PLENTY of shooting in the wind once my loads and Rifles have been "tuned" in dead calm air.
My new policy of only doing load development on dead calm days has reduced my trips to the range with a particular Rifle and doing load devlopment for it I am sure by about 70%!
Amen to your philosophy of NOT trying to make the 221 Fireball into something it is not - my 221 Fireball 40 grain "tuned" loads are doing 3,260 F.P.S. and yet the terminal performance on Varmints is quite impressive.
Your desire to "do something with the 222 Remington Magnum" is going to be an eye opener for you!
I have two Varmint Rifles in 222 Remington Magnum and they are among my all time favorites (an older Sako L-46 heavy barrel and an older Browning bolt action factory Rifle that Browning used a Sako action to build on) both are superbly accurate and again perform so very well on moderate powder charges (long barrel, accuracy and brass life!).
Hold into the wind
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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
It took me about 25 years of serious range work to come to that conclusion and to figure out that it is almost futile to try to do load development or do accuracy checks when the air is moving!
VarmintGuy
Wow you are a fast learner


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Originally Posted by dvdegeorge
Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
It took me about 25 years of serious range work to come to that conclusion and to figure out that it is almost futile to try to do load development or do accuracy checks when the air is moving!
VarmintGuy
Wow you are a fast learner

With these parameters I get about 4 days a year that are suitable to work on load development.

thought some may find this link on a wide range of 221 FB loads interesting. the reduced loads intrigued me most.

https://www.accuratereloading.com/221rfb.html


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18.5 RL7 40 gr Nosler BT for the last almost 4 decades


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FB: Has that load been doing well in one rifle or more than one?


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Originally Posted by dvdegeorge
Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
It took me about 25 years of serious range work to come to that conclusion and to figure out that it is almost futile to try to do load development or do accuracy checks when the air is moving!
VarmintGuy

Wow you are a fast learner

Guess he still hasn’t figured out wind flags yet either. 😳



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Originally Posted by Hunterapp
Originally Posted by dvdegeorge
Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
It took me about 25 years of serious range work to come to that conclusion and to figure out that it is almost futile to try to do load development or do accuracy checks when the air is moving!
VarmintGuy
Wow you are a fast learner

With these parameters I get about 4 days a year that are suitable to work on load development.

thought some may find this link on a wide range of 221 FB loads interesting. the reduced loads intrigued me most.

https://www.accuratereloading.com/221rfb.html

I do a lot of Blue Dot loads... I haven't done any work with the 221 Fireball, but I have worked with the 17 Fireball as I have a couple of barrels for a Savage action, so chambered. I'd back off some of their max loads.

The data on the sub sonic and reduced loads, checking that over, I'd say you would be good to go...

The only reason, I don't own a 221 Fireball is that I can load a 223 down to the same specs, and brass has been virtually free for decades.. range pick up.... In fact a lot of what I shoot in the sage rat fields each spring and summer, are real close to 221 or 222 velocity specs.


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19.0g of RL7
40g NBT

All you need to know.

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Originally Posted by Hunterapp
FB: Has that load been doing well in one rifle or more than one?

RL7 18.5-19 grains and a 40 grain Nosler BT works for both a friend and I. My rifle is a set back and rechambered Sako Vixen, his a Remington. A few guys here also use it. It's a real standard load that works great.


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swifty52: I gave up on wind flags and wind vanes LONG ago for my load development!
IF... the wind is blowing then you are "guessing" at what the load you are trying to "develop" is capable of!
PERIOD!
The wind is so often more finicky and bubbly than any wind flag or wind vane can relay to you reliably and quickly.
If shooting while doing load development in windy conditions meets YOUR standards then make yourself happy.
I prefer to do my load development in windless conditions - it has worked well for me for decades now!
Hold into the wind (once load development is done)
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That link that Hunterapp posted and Seafire talking about the sub sonic loads has me seriously thinking about trying some of that, with some lead bullets. My style of p-dog shooting makes close shots a regularity, and it just might be a bigger kick in the pants with a suppressed sub sonic load than it already is.


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Originally Posted by TRnCO
That link that Hunterapp posted and Seafire talking about the sub sonic loads has me seriously thinking about trying some of that, with some lead bullets. My style of p-dog shooting makes close shots a regularity, and it just might be a bigger kick in the pants with a suppressed sub sonic load than it already is.
That does sound like fun.


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Originally Posted by Hunterapp
FB: Has that load been doing well in one rifle or more than one?

Just like Roy is saying, I can tell ya that RL 7 works real well in that 17 Fireball case, and it always works real well in a 223 case.. I use to use RL 7 a lot, when it was readily available. Availability wasn't what it use to be, after Obummer got into office, so I switched over to Blue Dot and IMR 4198..

If availability was there, I'd use RL 7 more often than IMR 4198, and 4198 is a powder I use a lot of.. Just RL 7 is more of a good thing. Its not just a Fireball case thing.

I use it a lot in the 22.250 also...


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Just picked up a 700 LVSF in 221FB Im hoping to start loading for it when I get the dies.

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Originally Posted by TLB2
Just picked up a 700 LVSF in 221FB Im hoping to start loading for it when I get the dies.
Congratulations. My .221 LVSF works well with AA1680 and 40 grain Ballistic Tips.

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