Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting .308 sniper rifle for deer/elk/bear.

Roger on the Longshot. It definitely has Rock lines, hence my Q. Bonus hits next month along with my b-day. In the market for another stick and looking. A GAP is looking to be my choice.

Buffhunter, did you bench press the ivory, too. Just poking a little fun at your name. If you have the skill to make a shot consistently, and I suspect you do, then no one should have a problem with wanting to shot something at long range. You have enough gun...I suggest a Barnes X Triple Shock for the pill. Obviously your odds of wounding an animal are increaing with the range. But, if you've got the skill and the tools I hope it works out. I'll look forward to seeing the story of you hunt in this thread next fall.

Pictures of you bench pressing the deer, bear or elk would be impressive.

I'll have to concur with flinch that the triple shock is not the bullet for the .308 at extended range. The triple shock is a great bullet if you are going to be launching it out the muzzle at 3000 fps or more, and you keep the impact velocity at 2000 fps. In a .308, a 165 or 168 gr pill is doing at best 2800 fps from the muzzle, and I don't have any balistic charts with me, but believe out around 300 yds you'll be dropping below 2000 fps. If you go with a softer bullet such as a balistic tip, you'll still have a strong enough bullet for 2800 fps at th muzzle, and get reliable expansion down to about 1700 fps.

I think this is a backwards approach to a long range hunting rifle. First pick the bullet you want to use, then figure out what velocity you need at the longest range you expect to use that bullet, then look for a parent case to launch that bullet fast enough to get the desired terminal velocity at your max desired range.

I don't see the .308 being a 500 yd big game round. While there may be minimum power requirements for ideal shots in an ideal world, the real world presents situations in a slightly different manner. Better to have a bit more gun just in case.

I'd also say generally those with the skills for taking game at 500 yds don't need to ask questions about suitable equipment. They also would not choose a .308. If one can afford all the proposed hunts, then one could certainly afford a 300 magnum, and be much better served for the task at hand.

I would tend to disagree with that statement. While the .308 isn't the best round for long range, many guys have extensive experience with it (and the training and practice under their belts to make it work) because of LE or Military experience. The .308 is also extremely forgiving for beginners in the loading dept and in the recoil dept, which makes it even better than a .300 Win Mag under 600 because it so easy to shoot. I have take several big game animals cleanly at ranges to 605 yds with a .308 and wouldn't hesitate to use it again.

Hagar,

Never thought of my posting name in that light! I was thinking more of "buff" as in cape buff (man I love to hunt those beasts), but I used to be able to field gut a medium-sized deer and strap in to a backpack and hike it out. Not anymore though, I never did care much for the taste of the bones and such, so a sharp knife make for a lighter load!

458lott:

As stated in an earlier post, I kind of "inherited" the .308, so I want to work with it to get the most out of it as a long range hunting rig. Truth is, if I can't reliably make 400-500 yards shots with the rifle/scope/cartridge combo, I won't attempt them. But I have control over that. What I can't control is bullet performance at long range and that's why I am soliciting advice from people who have used .308s on deer and elk at extended ranges. Again thanks for all the pratical info and advice.

Truer words were never spoken! I would pick a 338 Lapua if I needed to shoot elk or bear at long range. I don't know why I would need to though? If I took a 500 yard shot I would want a good tracking dog, (if it was legal) chances of a clean kill at long distances are not good with any caliber. There are just to many things that can go wrong. (Wind gusts)
Great White North

You must have missed the

The .308 has a well earned rep of being a great rd. to learn long range shooting. The barrels last a long time. They don't kick hard even from prone in a heavy rifle and they do a pretty good job of bucking wind. Happen to have a couple myself.
Another good bullet for hunting is the Nosler Partition. It will open well at low impact speeds. Has for me out of a 7X57 at over 500 yds several times ( 140 gr. bullet 2800 fps.) A 165-168 gr. .308 slug can/should do the same. E

Great White North.

Some folks are a bit more educated shooters than others. The wind gust you speak of is no critical than the animal taking a step at 100 yards. If you know what you are doing, neither will happen, yet anything can happen at any point. There is never anything that is 100% guaranteed. Other than you won't get em if you don't shoot.

Jeff

In target shooting if you miss a wind change you might shoot a 9 instead of an X. If you miss a wind change at 600 yds shooting at game the result will be a lot more sickening.
It all depends on what you are willing to accept.
GWN

You are assuming someone will shoot in less than ideal conditions. With a scope on the gun its awful hard to miss a wind change at 600 yards. I do miss one sometimes while on iron sights though I'll admit that. But I don't hunt with iron sights. In a scope you have all the info you'll ever need to see the wind shifting.

So what do we do about taking a 100 yard shot on an animal thats alert and just as you shoot another person shoots in the canyon over and the animal you are firing at, ducks, lunges, whirls or starts to run.

Nothing is 100% in control. Wind changes are very visible. Even ones that move my 223 bullets at 600 only 3-4 inches are very visible in a scope.

It only requires lots of practice time and dedication.

One reason a 308 is so highly regarded for long range work is that its light recoil makes it easy to practice enough to become a good shot way out there. And practice you must to hit past 300m, much less at the kind of ranges you mentioned.

I would also brush up on tracking, since your 30-30 analogy is so accurate. Few consider it a 200m deer gun, and most would expect a long tracking job on a deer shot at that range with one. Perhaps the biggest problem is simply finding where the deer was standing when the bullet struck. A third of a mile is a long way in the field, and things look different there than they do from your firing point. In such a case, I would mark my firing point by hanging a marker such as an extra orange vest in a tree. (A flag made of surveyor's take will be too small to see at that distance.) Shoot an azimuth to the game's last known location. Walk downrange, shoot a back azimuth to the marker and use your rangefinder to position yourself along that azimuth. Then you can start looking for spoor.

I used a 308 a fair amount in the military and made some interesting groups with it at the ranges you talk about. One reason I could do this is that our doctrine called for two-man sniper teams, with the less-experienced man on the rifle. The seasoned guy ran the spotting scope, read the wind and told the shooter where to hold. Among guys who knew the deal, any glory that acompanied a long shot went to the spotter first, the team second and the shooter last.

So the best advice I can give you, aside from dropping this project altogether, is learn to read the wind. There are mechanical ways to deal with trajectory but reading wind is still an art.


Okie John

Back to what I said, those that have the skills for the job aren't asking the equipment questions. If the guy really wanted to go about it correctly, he'd be asking how to get the shooting skills for consistantly placing shots way out there. Once said skills were gained, then he'd likely have the equipment figured out along the way.

Once again, plenty of guns are up to the task, most shooters aren't.

Thanks for the real world advice Okie John. As I stated in an earlier post, if I can't consistently hit at longer ranges, no way am I going to shoot at game at those ranges. I have shot a fair amount at 300m and can usually keep my group within 4 or 5 inches (and that was with a less than ideal scope). But I still beg to differ from .458 Lott. Being able to place a bullet were you want it at long range, is a separate issue from knowing which bullet to use on game at those ranges.

Killing anything, means hitting the right spot, with the right bullet for the range in which it is intended. Most hunting bullets work well on deer-to-elk sized game at 50 to 250 yards. But finding the right bullet for 400-600 yard shots on game is another matter (just look at the differences in opinion on this topic). People who have used the .308 successfully at longer range, say it is adequate with the proper shot placement and bullet. People who like the big bores (either theoretically or in practise) say the .308 doesn't have enough mustard.

Many elephants and cape buff have been shot with .303s and to the big bore enthusiast, that just isn't done.

Thanks for the input anyway, and I will let everyone know how the hunts turn out.

Sounds like your heart is in the right place. With the right skills you can take game at long range, and as 458 Lott pointed out, you discard a lot of marginal gear as you learn. The best way to learn the wind is to shoot NRA High Power, Palma or F-Class. You live and die on the wind in those matches. When I was a kid in the Oklahoma National Guard, our rifle team ruled when the wind kicked up because the wind always howled on our ranges. Guys who didn�t live in windy states couldn't touch them then.

The most important skill is the ability to handle unexpected outdoor logistical chores like a good infantry platoon sergeant. I mentioned land navigation in my first post, but I�ll repeat that the ability to get from exactly Point A to exactly Point B and back is crucial. Half the best hunting time is at dusk in the fall, so learn to do this at night and in bad weather, too.

The ability to analyze terrain is also critical. Maps and aircraft help but you really learn it on the ground. Your goal is the ability to predict from whence the game will come. But if you can do that, you don�t need to make long shots.

Also learn to pick routes over rough terrain and be physically hard enough to get game out over them. Warren Page or Jack O�Connor (I think) wrote of a �Six-Mile Shot.� The actual shot was 5-600m across a canyon. To reach the meat, he and his guide had to ride around it, six miles one way. Luckily, the writer made his shot in the morning, the elk fell in his tracks, the guide knew the area, and the pack horses cooperated. Can you imagine having to track an elk that had a six-mile head start? What if he had made that shot at dusk and had to find the bull at night? What if the ride had taken two days?

Lots of things to think about before you cue up a long shot.


Okie John

I'm with Chris Jamison on this one.

I have a 340 Weatherby for long range, but am very confident in the 308, and am most likely to be afield with my 308.

I have four rifles in 308s - a Savage with accutrigger - get one, an old remington 722, a Kimber 84M and a Rem 700 built by Homer Strickland. All of them, from $340 to $3500, shoot the 308 so well I sometimes wonder why I got the $3500 one!!!

In the Walter clan, the 308 reigns supreme.

Why strain to make the kill? Deer at 400 or 500 I could buy...almost. But a bear or Elk? Just sounds like a bad idea to me. I tend towards more gun rather than less. If I had a rifle that I trusted to penetrate, and a bullet that would perform at those ranges I'd take the shot, provided everything was right.

FWIW I'd reccoment using a 165 Partition as they will likely expand with more reliability at the reduced impact velocity of the 308 at the extended range. I fear the TSX might be tougher and not expand.

My $0.02, and they're Canadian so not worth much.

Barnes recomends 1800 fps minimum for the TXS,Nosler Rcomends 1900-2000 fps for the partion fo open this comes from Nosler reloading guide #4 The Barnes minimum speed comes from talking to Barnes

I'm not a long range hunter myself, but I stumbled upon an interesting article while researching an upcoming project.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/shooting_hunting.htm

There's quite a bit of bullet info in there.

I am an avid .308 Win. fan for deer and bigger game within 300 yards.
At longer ranges like what you are talking about velocity drops off rapidly and so does terminal bullet performance.
The super bullets will not cut it at those velocities.
Standards like the Hornady spire points will perform a tad better. Or.....the Nosler partitions.
I go to a more powerfull caliber for the above reasons.
The .308 is good up to 600 m. on people. Wounding is as good or better then killing in a military sense.
N_O_T in hunting, wounding should not be an option, neither should a cavalier attitude by taking big chances with a big game animals life and risky recovery as some others pointed out. Or ................to prove to yourself that "it can be done".
I am not accusing you at this point of calousness since you genuinly might not be aware of the limitations of the .308 in hunting.