Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting .308 sniper rifle for deer/elk/bear.

MontanaMarine,

If I read your post correctly, such a bullet is deflected 21.6" in a 10mph crosswind.

What happens if the crosswind is 5mph or 15mph? Yes, I know you can measure it from where you are shooting, but what is the effective wind over the 600 yards, where it may be swirling around, there may be a gully, etc. What if it changes just as you shoot?

Such a condition causes a 10" miss horizontally. If your basic hold is off by 6" you get 16" and a wounded deer.

You're going to pass whenever you think the wind is 10mph?

Have you ever hunted in the West?

Such a practice would make you pass nearly all the time, in which case you would always be sneaking up closer, in which case you would not want the heavy barreled rifle capable of fairly accurate shooting at 600 yards in the first place.

This is just an argument to not attempt 600 yard shots with .308s.

600 yards is a chip shot for a practiced long range .308 shooter. The right load can deliver plenty of power to same distance.

I've put 10 out of 10 in the black from 500 meters(550yds) with iron sighted rack grade M16s, shooting milspec 55gr ball.

An accurate, heavy .308 with sniping optics is easy money at 600 yards. I've made 600 yard headshots on paper human targets with boring consistency, using heavy Rem 700 and 168gr Federal GMM ammo.

I reiterate:

proven load

practice

laser RF

passing on iffy wind.


Now, personally, I'm not a long range game shooter. I've never shot deer past 200 yards. Likely never will. That's my personal choice. The intent of my first post was do call attention to a particular bullet that can eek out plenty of 600 yard killing power, via a "sniper" .308 rifle.

I'm not advising the non-practiced, once-a-year rifle shooter to grab his walmart rifle, 4X Tasco, and Green Box of 150gr CorLokt to eagerly go forth and sling lead at 600 yard deer.

Indy

The argument against taking a 600 yard shot with a 308 is silly. But now drop the 308 part and I agree. Even though this is a 308 thread, caliber really should not come into play in the argument.

BTW if you can't dope swirling wind between 0 and 600 with a scoped rifle, you need a bit more practice. I'm not flaming you BUT there is usually even more wind indicators to watch in the field than on a range. And its really easy for anyone with a bit of work to fire 10s or xs at 600 for the first shot. You just have to practice and learn to use what indicators are out there.

But I agree with you and MM on the mart mart hunter. Or probably most for that matter. Including you. You seem to know that you are no where near the level needed to take it on. And you follow those guidelines which speaks tons for your ethics. I hope you are getting through to the masses here. The few of us that are capable enough just don't want the rest of the group howling.... But then again this thread has really evolved tons...

BTW if my hold is so wildly wobbly that its 6 inches or larger at 600 I wouldn't shoot anyway because I'm' not steady enough. Prone and with a scope any capable shooter will be able to hold on an golfball pretty easy.

Jeff

A little food for thought/reality check:

It was noted by Indy' that the 200gr Accubond drifted 21" at 600 in a 10mph crosswind.

For S&G, running the same bullet in a 300WinMag at 3000 fps MV, results in 18" of drift at 600 yds.

A whole 3" difference in drift between the lowly .308, and the mighty 300WinMag long distance critter-cruncher.

A guy has gotta be able to make a decent wind call, or be willing to pass, with either round.

What Montana marine stated about the .308 vs. 300 mag. is something most don't bother to consider. Actually the biggest 300 mag. advantage is that, if you sight them both so that their maximum rise above line of sight is 3" or so, the 300 mag. gives you a lot longer point blank range and a lot less drop at 600 yards. These are less important than they were before rangefinders became available.

However, sometimes you don't have time to use the rangefinder. I prefer not to. When I went elk hunting, I sighted the 300 Weatherby so that, by comparing the width of an elk's body with the distance from crosshair center to where the crosshairs got thicker, and allowing for errors, I thought I could make a 400 yard shot, but not longer. As it happened, I shot a bull at only 50 yards.

End of season report. As promised, I stated I would let everyone know the results of the hunt.

Packing a 12-15 lb rifle on a backpack elk hunt, was a pain at first, but after 3 or 4 days I got used to it. The bipod came in really handy when setting the rifle down (I have always thought it was a hassle, looking for a place to carefully lay a rifle down when on a steep slope and you needed to add or remove clothling layers.)

Unfortunately, I didn't get a shot at an elk this year (Word of advice! When out-of-staters (texans in this case BTW), act friendly and then casually state "Where exactly are you going to be hunting? That way we will stay out of your way." DON'T TELL THEM. I did that this year and opening morning both of them where right where I said I was going to hunt. One shot and lost a bull (may or may not have met point restrictions, based upon what the hunter told me.) and the other shot and lost a cow (spooking a herd out of the drainage which contained a nice 6-pointer). Live and learn, I guess.

I did call in a calf to within 30 yards, but that wasn't what I was after (sure looked like good eating though).

I will be going after antelope next year, so I should get another chance to make a 300-400 yard shot with the rifle. To me having a rifle, that I know I can shoot shoot minute-of-angle out to 4 or 5 hundred yards is worth the added hassle of
packing the extra weight.

Thanks to all the practical advice and support from the true long-range hunters.

A few things. First, your quote about Texans is a moot point. You are in range for me right now.......

Anyway if you are worried about a MOA rifle to 400-500 yards just get a smith to build you a rifle. You are truly a fool if you think it takes 12-15 pounds to shoot that well. You can have a sub moa hunting rifle in almost any decent caliber at 8-10 pounds that will shoot around 2-3 inches easy and much better(if you load and can shoot worth a flip) at 500 yards.

Watch those Texas remarks or I'll come find ya. And my effective range is a mile or more.

Get 'em Rost......how's the deer hunting going?

Hot like yours I bet. May have shot a contest winning Yote Sat. morning. Other than that a small 6 point and mosquitos.

Dad is further down the hospice road so thats taking time, but I may get to Crockett this weekend for a day or so. Rut is kicking hard again around here. Was pretty hot around Oct15, and we are coming on 28 days pretty soon. Increasing moon too.... Wished I could leave Thurs already.. Gotta take what I can get if Dads health allows it.

Hows your end? Jeff

Hot here as well in Mason where I hunt....89 on Sat. and 90 on Sunday...saw an incredible 6 point this weekend though.....12" brows!.....at least 21" wide....got to study him a lot and I think he'll score 130" as a 6 pt....G2's are bout 2 inches longer than his brows....I think he's no older than 3 1/2 so we're gonna let him walk although he may be a trophy of a lifetime just b/c of his brows....no movement here except for the regulars to visit the feeder/food plot....zero rutting activity....Nov. 28-Dec. 2 should be good...moon and sun rise about the same time...usually a very good time especially since the first really cold spell usually comes in that same time frame......my regards to your father.....Greg

Hey Greg

I would think that at 3.5 if he's only a 6, he'll be a 6 or only get tiny G3s later..... I'd mount him if I shot him though. And I'd get him out of the gene pool ASAP. Had that problem in Llano along with a no brow tine problem. Got it sorted out though....

Jeff

That is my arguement as well....if he's only a 6 now, he probably is not going to start sprouting any more points on his mainframe....can you imagine if he stays a six and what he'll look like in 2 yrs!....but I am outvoted by the rest of the clan about whether or not to take him....Do you still hunt in Llano and if not what part of the county did you hunt in?

Got priced out in Llano. Hunted some miles south off 71. Crossed Big Sandy and took next road to the left, 308 to Honey Creek Cemetary. Down there a ways. Guy had 150 acres. We were already paying too much at 5k for the place when he doubled it. But it did have a lot of game, hogs, turkeys, deer, and it was year round. But many problems with surrounding landowners hunters...... All in all doubling the price was the best thing that ever happened. I found I can kill bigger bucks on public land in East TX at no cost, that I can draw doe tags too. And it allows my wife and I to start back to out of state trips. The year I lost my lease, I went to Alaska hunting for the first time. It won't be the last. But I did love shooting hogs all the time...

As to the 6, I"d bet a years salary he won't ever get G3s, and if so they won't be more than 1-2 inches long. What a trasher. But there are still idiots loose. I hunted years back on a place in Cotulla. Hunter shot a "old" spike. About 4 inch spikes. I could tell right away it was a yearling.... Opened the mouth and the front 3 teeth were worn flat-- I knew for sure then.... but no, the owner says its a 7 year old deer look at the teeth..... Some you can never teach.

Jeff

Sorry about the lease here....lots of leases going way up as long as people are willing to pay, and they are....unfortunately the ones with lots of money are usually the ones who do not have a clue.....good luck with the East TX public land....sounds like you are doing okay...I hear you on the out of state trips...last November mulie hunting in NM...time of my life...and the annual trout excursion to Colorado....Greg

Sir, I have two long range rifles. One is a .30-.338 built on a pre 1964 winchester action, and a .300 WSM built on a Nesika benchrest action. Both rifles cost around $3500 to build because turning an inch group into a half inch group can double the cost of a rifle. In 19 years of hunting the beanfields of North Carolina, My longest shot was 450 yards ranged with a Leica rangefinder off a solid rest. My thoughts are this:

First, how accurate is the rifle. An inch at a hundred is four at four hundred and the vitals of a deer can be about an eight inch circle. Four inches off center before human error is factored in is a wounded deer. Unless you find a load that will shoot a half inch or better, 400 yards is pushing the envelope.

Second, the issue of the bullet performing properly at the end lf the journey to do the job. .308 velocity at 400 yards is .30-.30 velocity and bullets with thin jackets designed to expand in that range like Nosler Ballistic Tips (try 165's) will deliver the most energy to target. Big critters, if you would be comfortable with the energy of a .30 - .30 with the shot placement you have. OK.

Last, my .30 - .338 was the old fashioned solution for getting more range out of a .30-06 which entailed taking a chamber reamer to an "06". Back when the Holland and Hollands were the only magnums in town, the Marine Corps were using the .30 - .338 in the 1000 yard Wimbledon Cup. You can sit with a gunsmith and explore the option of converting your rifle to a .300 WSM which entails recutting the chamber, and opening up the bolt face and magazine. My .300 WSM is very accurate has a lot of power. I believe the lightweight mountain rifles the big guys are marketing the caliber in do not do it the justice that a long range target style rifle does.

PS. talking about this long range stuff, I shot a buck on Sunday at 20 yards with a bow. He went 20 yards shot through the heart and fell down dead!

Rob P

I beg to differ on an inch at 100 being 4 at 400. It rarely works that way. And 4 inches at 400 is a poor group any day. A good rifle that is rebuilt should shoot around 1-2 inches at 500 yards. That will cost around 2 grand or more depending.

But your point on group size vs vitals etc... is huge. Factor in many factors of LR shooting and it takes an uncommon shooter to be able to perform. But for those that take the time 300-400 yards, under acceptable conditions, is really a chip shot these days. Bullet selection is paramount, but with the choices of the X bullet and now the accubonds, there is no doubt the bullets can perform. I"ve personally had Xs open up and hold together from as close as 50 yards to just over 800.

Congrats on the bow shot. I much prefer it over rifle hunting, but some times and places you can hunt all year and never be in the right place at the right time.

Jeff

You are 100% correct again!!!

Good evening, rost. You wrote: "I beg to differ on an inch at 100 being 4 at 400. It rarely works that way. And 4 inches at 400 is a poor group any day. A good rifle that is rebuilt should shoot around 1-2 inches at 500 yards. That will cost around 2 grand or more depending."

Could you clarify what you are referring to? In other posts you have said you are an exellent High Power competitor. You should know that, if you can shoot this well (or the slightly bigger equivalent at 600 yards) at Camp Perry you will not only win the national championship at 600 yards, but will set the all time national match record.

So what exactly do you mean? I would be very interested in seeing a rifle that actually fired its shots into 0.2 MOA at 500 yards and was chambered in a decent long range big game caliber.