Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting .308 sniper rifle for deer/elk/bear.

Quarter MOA guns are not hard to find, even in LR calibers. I had an 18# 300 Tomahawk that would routinely put 3 shots into 2 inches at 600 yds. That's 1/3 MOA and was done multiple times from a bipod... We aren't talking about competition shooting from positions, we are talking about heavy hunting or tactical style rifles set-up to be shot from the bench or bipod... CJ

Indy

Chris has it right. Plus there is a huge difference in shooting 5 shots into 1-3 inches at 500-600 yards with a scope etc.. and maintaining that to 22 shots at 600.

FWIW I have come off the line at Perry with the only 200 shot at 600 in a match or two. Its just a nagging little thing called offhand that is my nemesis. I suspect I'd be best going to prone only and shooting a match rifle rather than an AR15 service rifle, but I enjoy the challenge so much of the service rifle. And not till I have time to set the national prone record at 600 with a service rifle and or shoot a 200-20x with the service rifle will I swap.

BTW its fairly common for hunting rigs to be made as super bolt guns and shoot 1-2 inch groups at 500 yards. Both 3 and 5 shot groups. After all how many shots do ya need on game. And if shooting a 22 shot group-- sooner or later most days the conditions will sneak in there and nip a super group.

Hope that explains it a bit further. BTW go to longrangehunting.com -- there are a handful of well documented bolt gun smiths dealing with large hunting calibers who have their work firing the size groups I mention. One smith will eventually further lighten my wallet.

Jeff

rob p:

I consistently shoot 0.5 at 100, 1.75 at 200, and 2.75 at 300 off of the bipod (3-shot groups). The rifle is probably much more accurate than that.

I will be trying it on WY antelope next year to see how it performs at longer ranges.

Indy

Now I may see part of my post makes sense to me.... but maybe bad to others.

First 1 inch at 100 rarely equals 4 at 400. IE most rifles are worse. IF you get 1 at 100 I"d be more willing to bet its like 6-8 inches at 400.

Hence the need for a better more accurate rifle and load. Sometimes once a good load settles in and stabilizes it won't as much as you think it should. IE its 2.5 inches at 200, at 300 its 2.5 inches. At 400 its 3-3.5 inches etc... Most rifles work the way I mentioned above though. So you have to get a good rifle.

And by being rebuilt-- I mean you can take a factory action and have about 400 bucks truing it up, and then stick on a 300-500 buck barrel, and drop it into a 500 buck stock and then if you don't know how to bed correctly can drop another 200 there etc....

Maybe that clarifies it a bit better.

Of course as noted by others, just because the gun is good, the shooter still has to do a lot of work and practice. To get decent at prone, I laid and dry fired my AR for at least an hour every nite till I got to where my muscle memory was good and things got better. But it came with the price of having to practice that hour each nite....

Jeff

"To get decent at prone, I laid and dry fired my AR for at least an hour every nite till I got to where my muscle memory was good and things got better."

Well that's certainly one way. Most people I know only dry fire offhand, or maybe a little sitting. They take prone "for granted."

I also perceive that you probably have excellent vision and are not a big fat guy. That AR15 is too small to fit me well and, after shooting the shorter ranges all day, it's hard to see that close front sight. Of course, I tend to dwell on it too long before firing. A few years ago I could actually shoot a tighter "cone of fire" at 300 rapid than 600, because in rapid I don't admire the sight.

INdy

You actually hit on something with 300 vs 600. I had the same thing going. Could shoot 100-5-8x almost all the time if the wind was right. But never could clean 600. Then realized I was probably shooting too slow. Thats why I started the prone dry firing. Vary it going fast, slow, etc..... and the body got used to it. And I started shooting 200s on almost every reduced course and 200s or high 190s on every full course, depending on conditions.

Wife says I'm fat though.... 180 at 5'10". Need to drop some weight. Won't happen right now though....

Prone cannot be taken for granted until you get to the top level. But neither can the rest. I was going backwards-- make sure I could clean it all but standing and then start to work hard on standing but time ran out.

As to vision. I've had glasses since I was a kid and am now 40. I have to wear knoblochs. And I have to use tinted lenses to get contrast. I can manage to focus on the front sight if smoked well and marked with a pencil. But I needed the tint to get the contrast needed to where I could really see what I needed to see. But now that I have not shot in a few years, I'd bet I'll need all new lenses....

BTW that prone practice, man does it pay off on long field shots. Lay that rifle on a backpack and settle in. I feel totally confident that I can hold on a clay pigeon with a scope out past 1000 yards. Thats a small wobble area. But then there are other things to consider past my hold of course. Confidence does help success though.

Have heard Perry is revamping the pits on Rod. That should be nice. And adding an RV park. One of these days when I get back, it'll be better than it was. In the meantime the deer will just have to watch out!

Jeff

Rost,

One of our best local High Power shots says that the way to shoot an AR15 is to get glasses made which focus 7" in front of the AR15 front sight.

I think Perry is totally revamping the pits on Viale as well as Rodriguez. New target carriers and everything. I think this will be done before 2006 matches. The RV park is so far just an idea, but the certainly have enough space for it.

Why don't you shoot High Power any more? I quit when I was about 25 but then came back when I was 55.

Hi Indy

Unfortunately my Dad has been a 30 year cardiac patient and the last years have been declining. Go on a 3 hour trip to go fishing and get called to run home again.... I'm the only child. Right now we are on hospice and have only a couple of days or week or so left( I truly hope anyway).

You can see where my time went to. I'm 40. I"ve got time left. And in the meantime I"ve taken to hunting out of state instead. Can't afford both. And with shooting I"d be spending major bucks all year to get ready for Perry and then possibly not be able to go due to Dad, and also let the team down. Just didn't work out. And all those thousands spent would be mostly wasted on practice.

So it'll be mostly hunting for quite a while. Though after this is all over, I may well start dryfiring etc... and just fly up for the team match day to support the team at Perry.

I don't know about focus at 7" beyond the sight, I get my general RX and then borrow lenses either side from the local opt. Take them to a match or 2 at 600 and have them swapped out in front of my eye as I'm aiming. Pick the best one and go from there. Much better for my eyes. I'm allowing them to pick what it takes on the actual range, vs a wild guess. Had taken the AR to the office of the Opt. etc... Was ok, but not the total answer.

Jeff

Rost495,I am in complete agreement with you on this A couple of months ago I shot a 4 shot group @ 550 yards with long range rifle a 300 win mag with a match grade barrel, 3 shots were 1 3/4" with 2 touching, a fourth shot opened the group to 3 7/8" I stopped at 4 shots because th wind was getting erratic. By the same token I have a bone stock factory 300 wi that is only capable of 3 shots into 7/8" at 100yards As you mentioned long strings are more difficult than short ones

BH,

Please post photo of jumbo, I am curious to see one with 100+ lbs of ivory. I don't get to see them that size anymore. Where did you shoot him?

Duckster,

Just so there is no misunderstanding, the elephant ran about 60 lbs a side, not 100 lbs a side. Anyway, I killed him in the Gokwe area of Zimbabwe on 9/11/2003. I first hit him about 30 yds away. He stumbled and the PH and I ran to about 20 yds and I hit him twice more. On the third shot he was already toppling. We then ran to within a yard and I shot him in the spine. All shots were made with my M70 Win Safari in .416 Rem Mag using Rem factory loads with 400 gr Barnes solids.

duckster:

PS Sorry about the quality of the picture, but it was over 100kb at 640x480 so I had to down size to to 320x240.

BH,

Did you post it or PM? I can't see anything. Thanks for the details.

Man you're making friends left and right!! These out-of-state hunters that you take issue with contribute hundreds of millions of dollars to our economy each year. I think you should thank em and ask them to come again next year. Thousands of small businesses in Colorado thrive off these folks. Also, with over 300,000 elk in this state it is not like we have to worry about elk numbers decreasing any time soon. Out-of-Staters are good for conservation and our economy.

As for carrying a 12-15 pound rifle to hunt elk......................that is your choice, but you can carry a 7 pounder that will be just as accurate.

The gun below is 7 pounds, with scope, sling, etc. and it shoots better than .5" with factory ammo. You can kill things all day at 500 yards if you do your part, so why kill yourself with a 15 pound gun. Build a 7 pounder and be done with it.



The guy that built this gun is from Colorado. Go down and see him, he will build you one hell of a gun that you can carry all day long. Pm me if you want his details.

Buffhunter is this the same ellie? I have been researching African hunts and came across this photo of the same ellie I think.



Better picture here

http://www.steynsafaris.com/Images/photos/HP11.jpg

BH:

Click on the attachment from my post containing the details.

Poot Peat:

Personally, I don't make a dime off of out-of-state hunters.

Although they do contribute to some of the mom-and-pop grocery stores and gas stations, most of the money winds up going to the state government who IMO simply wastes it (currently got a big story going on about this little girl who was reported missing by her father a few weeks ago. Some government worker went there to check on the family's status to continue getting housing assistance which prompted the report. The police think the girl was killed a year or so ago. Turns out the family took a vacation to Walt Disney World several months ago, so they cops went there to see if they could find the girl on any of the hotels security videos. That's pretty typical of state spending, giving money to family to pay for their housing, yet the family can take a trip to Walt Disney World!)

As far as out-of-state hunters, I shared the woods with 3 hunters from Wisconsin (sp) a few year ago and they were really decent guys. We all stayed out of each others way. I gave them some tips on the lay-of-the-land and they dropped by and left me some home-canned preserves! Nice gents.

You are right on the ellie!

Poot Peat:

BTW that is a sweet looking rifle. What caliber is it?

It is a 270, but the guy that built the gun also builds 338's and 340's in a 7.5 pound combo that shoots lights out. They come with a muzzle break, to take the sting away, but they shoot. My hunting partner shoots a 340 wby built by the same guy and it is a consistent half inch gun with 250 A frames and 210 partitions.