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Here's another ham hock for you, guys. I'm sure that it'll go into good soup with some and bring roars of contention from others. �'est la vie!

More than a few good believers claim �I don�t need a teacher� to understand the Bible. They love to cite part of 1st John 2:27 (��ye need not that any man teach you�), ignoring the rest of the verse and its larger context � especially overlooking the fact that John was writing those words to a very spiritually mature Body of believers, all of whom (John says) had been baptized into the Holy Spirit.

�� the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.�

The larger context of verses 20 through 27 of John�s first letter makes it even clearer that John was writing to Christians who were far more spiritually mature than those who so arrogantly claim that they don�t need a teacher.

�20 But ye have an unction [anointing] from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.�

If the Body doesn�t need teachers now, it certainly did when Paul wrote, in the fourth chapter of his letter to the Body of Christians at Ephesus,
�11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors [literally, shepherds] and teachers;
12 For the perfecting [literally, completing] of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.�

Has the Body, since then, all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ? When did this happen? In nearly forty years of study and ministry in the Spirit, I have yet to see the first sign of such Bodily unity and completeness.

Are we no longer tossed to and fro, no longer carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and the cunning craftiness of the deceivers? When did we become so wise, either individually or collectively as a Body?

The need for teachers is another diagnostic irritant � those whom the idea of needing teachers irritates are those whose need for teachers is greatest. The irritation diagnoses the need.

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It seems to me that most on here agree that teachers are necessary . No shortage of applicants for the position .

At least YOU have a couple of full time students . And it ain't just because you work cheap!

I sir, will always be a student, accountable to teachers.

I also believe my calling is that of a teacher. When I am asked to teach, my first action is to become a better student and seek out the teachers who can guide me.

After all, the vast majority of knowledge and understanding we desire has already been given. We don't need to discover it on our own, we just need to learn it from a teacher.

Yep! All a teacher has to know is " more than his students " .Far too many "teachers " seem to think they must come up with a little diffent slant on eveything,so they can claim it as original. I'd put more stock in a point of view if it co-incided with the thoughts of at least some other respected scholar than if it is backed up by some scripture reference that may not even be on point .

Ken's thread on why he had to KNOW is a classic.If a teacher's view on one subject does not dovetail with his views on another similar subject , I submit that he don't KNOW.

Me, I don't have to know much.But I'm glad we have teachers who do . Nobody can take away from my faith . I won't allow it. I'll let anybody add to it .

The self-appointed aren't the real thing. The Holy Spirit decides and specifies who is a teacher whom He has set in the Body as a gift to the Body � anyone else isn't, no matter who else says that he is.

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I'm really surprised to hear you say that. Maybe I misunderstand. Don't you think it is essensial for believers to read and speak the Word of God? Isn't that the way that a God pleasing faith comes? Are we not to study to be approved? Will there not always be seducing teachers spreading false doctrine and raising contentions and strife? How can we guard against that if we don't have the word in our hearts? I see no where that we only need to trust men to rightly divide His word for us but everywhere that we are to be prepared ourselves.

I'm all for teachers: my wife's a great one. I believe we can all be taught by most of those we come in contact with and should remember we are also teaching as we live out our lives.

My Bible tells me our tongues and our actions (emotions/pride) rule our lives until we rule them and I've seen that borne out in my life. I have noticed that to be an effective teacher for Christ those impediments of the flesh must be under submission, or the lessons will have a discernable clang to them.

I believe that here are the merits of a good teacher:
2 Tim 2:21-25

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach , patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; KJV

I can see where such a man could teach everyone he meets who would learn.

Of course the essential teacher is the Holy Spirit. Without Him it doesn't take much to draw the flesh away from the Truth. He's also the only true teacher since no man I have met fully measures up to the 2 Timothy teacher.

Ricky,

Yes, you misunderstand.

Ecc 1:9

"That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun."

There are not new revelations, only old ones to be learned again. Every "new" idea, concept, thought, understanding we come across must be supported by the old.

As believers, we are not studying to learn "new" things, we are studying to learn "old" things............things that God has already revealed.

God did not make any of us "one man shows". He uses others to reveal his truth to us. Not only do we need to study the Word, we need to study the ideas of others.

I've used that verse before, too. Now, I have to wonder if it is still often appropriate when I consider it's Old Testament context.

Certainly Jesus tells us He makes all things new. A new covenant, a new birth, and a new man with the old passed away.

i am assured by the Holy Spirit that teaching is my (His) principal gift.
yet iron sharpens iron. that is why teachers need teachers, too, but first among them is the Holy Spirit.

It seems we are talking about a couple of different things.

Jesus did make things new, but everything he did was backed up by the Old Testament. The new covenant did not do away with the old. Jesus showed us exactly what was meant by the old prophesies and covenants. After all, God does not change, nor has His plan for humanity changed.

However, that is not what I am speaking of. I am talking about us today, post-Biblical times, the era that ended with the passing of the 12 and Paul. Just as the teachings in the New Testament can be backed up in the Old Testament, anything we come across as "new" in the the realm of Christianity must be fully supported by the old.

Thus, I believe God has already revealed virtually all He plans to reveal to His body. The knowledge is already there. Our personal task is to learn it and understand it for ourselves. Our task is not to discover "new" revelations, but simply learn to understand what has already been revealed.

We need help to do that, and that is why God uses teachers.

In this discussion, we can have what appears to be a contradiction, but is really just opposing spokes of a wagon-wheel.
1. We need to understand the things of God for ourselves. The danger is heading off into uncorrected error based on fauly understanding.

2. We also need to accept the teaching of those God has appointed to teach us. the danger here is blinldy following without thinking on our own.

I say it is not "either/or". It is not 50/50. I say we engage both approaches fully. We study and seek God to develop our own ideas. We also seek out the views of teachers and scholars to learn their thoughts. All this helps us to gain our own understanding.

If we all heard perfectly from God, then we wouldn't have to consult with others to make sure we don't mistake our own preferences for God's leading.

sounds good to me, eh?

One good way i have found to avoid problematical, untimely, or false teaching is a heartfelt prayer daily( or minute by minute) asked in Jesus Name of the Father.

Asking for Him to give us wisdom and direct us as individuals to teaching ( preaching, propcy) which is most needful for us this day..at this point in our lives..

This indicates I don't want to be entertained..have my ears scratched... but am willing to learn and accpt even the hardest truths in order that I might better serve Him.

This tells the Father that I want HIM to choose the areas I am most desperately in need of teaching in..

Example of less necessary or unnecessary teaching might be if a fellow wanted to know where Cain got his wife, that probably isn't very needful for the believer on a scale of primary need to infinitite questions....:)

Seeking teachers or teaching from God for the most critical issues in OUR personal life in Christ is so we might walk in His Spirit and grow in grace and knowlege of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

So, He will help us see truly what our real need for teaching is at the moment and make provision for that to be had by us..
He'll reveal the topic by His Holy Spirit, directly or indirectly.

We then by faith keep the eye and heart open and ready so we recognize the source for learning when it is manifest..jim

The need for teachers arises from pits, abysses, and gulfs in our ability to understand now even those things that were clear and simple then.

� We don't know the concepts that were every-day, down-home, red-neck, "country" clear when Jesus spoke them and the others wrote them to His followers.

� We don't know the significance of those concepts in the cultures that all those folks came from.

� We don't even know the meanings of some of the English words used in the early translations, which often continue to be used without explication in the later translations.

In those days, for example, let meant "hinder," among other meanings that were opposite our general meaning of let today (" ... To omit or forbear to do something. ... To desist, forbear" � Oxford English Dictionary).

How many of us can define, say, faith, without (a) parroting some hazy Bible verse or (b) funbling with a hazy personal guess? The little boy who "defined" faith as "believing what you know ain't so" nailed it in terms of the concept that's so often imparted by most doctrine, which is far from what the original word pistis meant in Jesus's time.

� We don't all understand the words that aren't there, of course � the words that "translators" have substituted for literal translations for some unscriptural reasons. The English versions of the New Testament in particular are pock-marked with these usurpative insertions.

� Many among us don't understand even modern English as well as we all should. Much that is difficult to understand from unguided private reading (especially fragmentary reading that ignores context) becomes crystal-clear when someone who knows points it out.

� We don't know the things of the spirit and the Holy Spirit well enough to cleave to them whenever things of the soul and body pull at our thoughts, motives, desires, tastes, opinions, and loyalties, in opposing directions.

Have Christian leaders been letting the rest of us down for centuries? Yes � by both (a) feeding us false or weak dilutions of the Bible's meanings and (b) failing to make its concepts as clear to us as they could have and should have been doing. But then, concentrating on what an evangelist friend of mine (former Baptist pastor) identified as the primary Three Bs of their concern ("buildings, budgets, and bodies"), they've long had other fish to fry.

Many of us teach � some things right, some things wrong. Few among us are teachers whom the Holy Spirit has assigned the role.

The teacher's role is in large part just sweeping the d�br�s out of our understanding.

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There's no doubt that cultural colloquisms and everyday things Jesus used to illustrate with can be pretty foreign to 21st century americans..
I never have figgered out why he cursed that one fig tree when the time of figs was not even at hand..?...:)

Complicating that is there is little of no reading these days in the classical english literature and so verses such as

'suffer the little children to come unto me for of such is the kingdom of heaven' can seem odd...unless one has a teacher ...and esp IF he reads that verse just by itself and tries to make sense of it.
Suffer of course means 'allow'..doesn't everyone raised with the KJV know that???...:)

Line upon line, precept upon precept is the scripture given, and the Holy Spirit(working in us individually and thru those He places in the body of Christ as guides) can and does lead the seeker into all truth..

The early church had no printed copies of the gospel, yea, no printing press..no televangelist babblers or annotated synoptic works, no exhaustive concordances with dictionaries of the hebrew, greek, aramaic..

Worse yet, a literacy rate in foreign languages or even one's own that was very small..

Few could write or read.

Yet for all of that, somehow, some way, Christ managed to add to AND build His Church according to His desires useing the 'guides-witnesses' ( I'll call all the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, elders, deacons 'guides-witnesses' for sake of simplicity) as well as His Holy Spirit working IN each believer ..

Amazing.
Has the church in general progressed in it's unction to grow in Christ unto a 'perfect man' since the first century???

Opinions on that will surely vary.

My Granddad once told me that when you have lost something of value, ( and item or a relationship) go back physically or in your heart & mind to the last place in time when it was not 'lost'...when it was yours..

Usually you can find it..and take better care of it after that..
I don't think the church needs reformation..more like a restoration..jim

Ken Howell, as a note:

On Blaine's 'WARNING' thread you made mention of a 20th century 'teacher' that I have long held in high esteem.
Finis Jennings Dake.
I still have and use his annotated bible work as well as his book on Revelation and his book God's Plan for Man..

Whether his work and delivery was what the Holy Spirit knew I needed or he was just an exceptional teacher, his work has really helped me over the years in cutting to the chase as it concerns God's Word and Plan for me.
The scriptural reaferences he puts together are comprehensive and leave even the most hard-headed, denominationally arrogant, or carnal Christian no wiggle room..:)
You want to argue or ignore most of what he has compliled and you must take the scriptures themselves to task and argue with God Himself..

Wish I could have met him personally..but his exegesis and collation of scriptures and notes still is alive, vibrant,practical, no-nonsense today as when the Holy Spirit had him do it many years ago..jim

ah, debris sweeping ... i pray i am up to the task.
and i do like the red neck country clear phrase.
't'is succinct and spot on.
the farther the Western world gets from the land, the more difficult "country clear" is to grasp. context, context, context. oh, did i say context?
seems the parts of the world that are still close to the land are much more ready to listen to the Word nowadays; i.e. africa and asia.

Ken
You are on a path to truth. You can find out about the culture and the meaning of many things of the Torah,Nevi�im Rishonim, K�tuvim, and B�rit Hadashah. When you can understand these words and know what they mean, you will start to look into the culture of the people who lived in Bible times. You will never look back and will be changed forever. I pray you will study this out.

http://www.restorationfoundation.org/

Shalom in Yeshua

30-30 Man

I've used a Dake Annotated Reference Bible for 15 years. It's quite large but I would never be without it. It was recommended by the first pastor my wife and I had. I'm glad he did. About the only time I read another Bible is to compare text with the KJV or go to the woods <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . It's too large for the woods......and too sentimental. Got others for the woods.

I want to add these fine web sites to understanding the Bible from the Hebrew Messianic prospective. Yeshua would have know these as well as all his Talmidim. My, what over 2000 years can do to the text and thought.

http://www.hebrewworld.com/idioms.html

Great Hebrew Messianic Bible
http://isr-messianic.org/index.shtml

30-30 Man

Welcome 30-30 man. Your links look like a commercial enterprise. You saying that my Dake Bible is materially misstated and needs clearification? I thought the Dead Sea Scrolls told us the opposite. But I'm kinda like my Mom. She'll never have a credit card and I'll never doubt the ability of my Bible to accomplish it's purpose. Wish I wouldn't have gotten a credit card either!