Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire teachers

Hi RickyD
Well here is one that I was given by our congregation leader some time ago. The early Missionaries had a tough time with this one with the American Indian. ( And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee.)
Say, check out the link below and listen to some great Messianic music online ! I think you will enjoy it.

http://www.wstw.fm/listen%20live.html

Oh, I almost forgot. List of words and meaning.
Yahshua = Jesus ( English )
Tanakh = Early writings ( Pre Messianic )
Elohim = God
Torah = First five books of Moses

Blessings

30-30 Man
***************************************************

If looks could kill
When people look at others with a cold stare or squinting eyes, more is being communicated than just a nasty glance. Envy and jealousy can easily be seen through the windows of the eyes. This is just the issue Yahshua dealt with on many occasions throughout the Gospels.
Unfortunately, for many years translators and teachers have struggled with the Hebraic concept of the "evil eye.

" This idiom has created many problems, and has been misunderstood, because the Hebrew culture has been misunderstood. "The light of the body is the eye; If therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness," Matthew 6:22-23a, KJV.

The people who heard Yahshua speak these very words immediately recognized what Yahshua meant when he talked of the evil eye.
This idea was and is common in the Hebraic culture. Yet, just pick up any different Bible translation and in it will be a quagmire of different words used to express this hidden Hebrew idiom. Each translation seems to deal with the issue differently. A few examples include, eye be whole, eye be simple, eye be sound, eye be plain, eye be healthy, sincere, clear, honest, or eye be good. This is very confusing! What did Yahshua really mean? Hebraically, what is an evil eye?

First, let's look at the context. The very next verse after the evil eye quotation, explains exactly what the evil eye squints at. "But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both Elohim and Money," Matthew 6:23,24 NIV.

When he spoke of the bad eye, Yahshua wasn't talking about bad eye sight or the need for lasik surgery! From the context it is easy to grasp that Yahshua was using a Hebrew _expression to comment on people's greed. Each time Yahshua spoke of the eye being good or evil, or "plucking out the eye," he was speaking of the issue of greed. An evil eye is a greedy eye. A person with an evil eye is controlled by the desire to receive for self.

The writings and the words of the Prophets explain this issue further. "he that has a good eye shall be blessed; for he gives of his bread to the poor," Proverbs 22:9. Again, if your eyes is good or 'tov' then you are not greedy From a Hebraic viewpoint it is now easy to grasp the difficult words of Yahshua. "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire," Matthew 18:9. Yahshua was not literally suggesting his followers mutilate themselves. Such a literal suggestion and teaching would be a direct contradiction and violation to Torah. "You are the children of the YHWH your Elohim. Do not cut yourselves," Devarim 14:1. Yahshua in the previous verse was suggesting that we run away from greed and idolatry. We should take precautions to guard and protect ourselves from the evil eye of want, to get rid of the evil eye of desire.
.

Parables are also interesting from the Hebraic perspective. Mosley�s book is a great read.

30-30 Man
*****************************************************************************************

Secondary Burial Matthew 8: 21-22
This concept is taken from Matthew 8:21-22, where a disciple asks Jesus to let him first go bury his father before continuing his ministry. The seemingly piecing rebuke of Jesus was not aimed at this disciple�s care for his father, but toward a Jewish tradition concerning burial which violated the scripture.
This tradition required the body of the deceased to be placed in the ground on the day of his death ( Deuteronomy 21: 22-23 ), John 19 : 31 and Acts 5: 6-10. This was the "first burial." The family then observed a seven-day period of mourning called shivah, during which they were not even permitted to leave the house. After the body was placed in the burial chamber, it was left to decompose. The Jerusalem Talmud says, " When the flesh had wasted away, the bones were collected and placed in small chests called ossuaries. After the flesh had gone from the bones, and the bones were placed in the ossuaries, the son stopped mourning."
This transfer of the bones to an ossuary was known as the "secondary burial." It was done by the oldest son, who took the bones either to the holy city of Jerusalem or a family burial cave, where they were placed near the bones of their ancestors. This practice had become popular during the first century, but had an unscriptural concept behind it of which Jesus apparently did not approve.
Jesus� disapproval was probably because of a corollary belief which held that decomposition of the flesh between the first and second burials atoned for the sins of the dead person. At the secondary burial, the son could rejoice as the bones of his father were laid with his ancestors, because only after the sinful flesh was off the bones were the sins atoned for.
Jesus was not hindering the son in his fulfillment of the fifth commandment, which required him to show his father due honor. But He was opposed to the secondary burial, which promoted the unscriptural idea that something other then the Messiah could deliver a person from sin. In all probability, the first burial of this disciple�s father had taken place a year earlier; otherwise he would have been in mourning and not with Jesus.
Some have suggested that this incident occurred just prior to the Feast of Tabernacles since Jesus and His followers were heading for Jerusalem. Perhaps the disciple thought that this would be a convenient time to transport his fathers� ossuary to the holy city.
This was taken from the book " Yeshua A Guide to the Real Jesus and the Original Church."
By Dr. Ron Mosely - Messianic Christian Teacher

Rich

Makes sense. [ not always welcomed around here ]

3030Man,
Thanks for that reply. Your examples and illuminations are interesting and do shed light on how that verse might have been received by it's initial hearers. I don't see how the meaning of the verse is changed by the information you bring, though. I believe most or at least many cultures have shown special attention to the eyes. Even ours. As an example the expression: "the eyes are windows to the soul".

I believe most believers recognize that eyes allowed to go undisciplined by the Spirit can allow sins of lusts of all kinds in to invade our lives. I sure do. It's on my short list.

I appreciate your intent to help make the Scripture fuller or more readily understood but I believe they do that all by themselves. I believe the Scripture has been created as a unique communication from the Almighty that cannot fail for lacks in interpretation or idioms.

Consultations with Greek/Hebrew dictionaries and cultural usages are fun, interesting, and sometimes illuminating but they run the risk of implying the Scripture is not complete on it's own. It is. I have never seen a time when I dug into such endeavors that there resulted any new revelations being discovered that contradicted Scripture. Nor have I heard of anyone else's tenant changing discoveries.

That could not always be said of doctrines of men, however. Big difference.

The truth is that many people have enormous trouble understanding and applying or maybe believing the scripture we have without the confusion of understanding how others might come to understand it. Understand? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. So that makes many believe their must be more.

We submit to endless study and pursuits so much more readily than we submit to God. That's when the understanding begins.

Families home. Gotta run!

Rick

And with that said, I say Shalom to you and your family.

30-30 Man

RickyD,

Yer a full blown fanatic on that book, aincha??? Nice ta have company once in a while. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, good Doctor,

I can see your defense mechanism showing.. I do
understand the scriptures. Though not as educated as you,
I can with the help of the Holy Spirit understand the
English language well enough to read.

I've labored in the field for 35 years....never taken a
dime from anyone, so I don't have a past to defend. I
do practice what I preach, though.

I've found that if God tells me to do something, He also
provides the time, the expenses, and the ability.The
only thing I need to provide is a willingness to obey.

Remember, truth is hidden from the wise and prudent.

I won't debate the issue with you as that would be futile.
Foolish a questions and beliefs avoid as they do gender
strife and serve no purpose.

I believe a person who cannot write clearly cannot think clearly.That's not the sign of an un - educated mind,it's the sign of an inborn inability to grasp even simple concepts and follow them to a conclusion.

The last portion of your post is not very clear. BTW, I left school in the ninth grade.

Folks who will preach for free are a dime a dozen . Now,folks who will minister for free --------------?

I'd hazard a guess that the folks who have listened to you all these years probably got their money's worth !

I wonder why we don't see folks lined up wanting to teach public school for free ? And why don't we trust our kids' MINDS to them if they did and swore they were "called of God to teach public school ".

The idea that a preacher,pastor , minister, can't do the job right if he takes payment for it is just about the stupidest assertion I've seen made around this fire.And that , my friend,is saying a LOT !!!

Bless you my brother. Pretty much what I expected from
this bunch. Religious people. I've seen them all my life!
No wonder the world isn't interested!

Enough said....I'll quietly go away. I can see I don't want
to fellowship here anyway!

C'Mon 280don, don't get all thin skinned now.That's just Gene's way of making folks feel welcome. He's a Don Rickles Charm School grad with honors in name calling and insults <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

But he ain't no slacker! Does double duty as another member's Pit Bull. Versatile type. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hope ya stick around. We're taking bets if Gene would share a real campfire with you or not. My money's on the "yeah, I'd share a campfire with you but I'd say silly and stupid stuff to your face" choice. I'm hoping for a windfall. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, but no thanks Ricky.

The stench of "religiousity" hurts my sinuses.

About the only one here so far I'd care to visit with
would be 3030. Since Christianity is actually a Jewish
religion, he could probably shed some light on a few
things that cannot be found in the "religious" tomes.

Goodbye, and God bless.

280don,

You had made an interesting comment that I was going to discuss. However, calling those you disagree with "religious" and then running away is not a sign of Christian maturity--neither is feigning offense at "religiousity". I am not saying this in judfement of you, but as one who fights against this very thing myself.

In the body of Christ, we need to be able to "agree to disagree" without name calling. None of us knows it all, and we are rarely sure we have heard from God 100% correctly.

see ya, wouldn't want to be ya............

That's where I'd disagree, 280. Judism is a pre-Christianity religion. Christianity is a relationship. The Jews the Lord encountered could not fathom an intimate approachable God but the Christian can embrace Him as the Father He is.

I do enjoy learning more about the Jewish cultures as well as all those of the ancients. I loved history in school but never figured it would pay the bills. Wrong thinking with anything you love, I find.

Well, I guess you do have thinner skin but you know your best course. Mine's got more road rash than I ever expected, too. But I do love talking about Jesus and figuring more out about God's plan. I've gleaned much from the months I've been here between all the distractions of ill conceived/received posts.

I have been quite surprised by the political extremism, though. Most everybody's more right than wrong by a long shot in here but some just have to be polarizing and cut folks no slack no matter what. I tried to leave that kind of junk in junior high. But it follows us.

I guess I'm a contributor to the "problems". I try to be respectful and polite but I ask questions and like to dig into the why's and where's. Some don't like that. No problem. I am glad to bow out of a thread when someone doesn't want to pursue a topic with me but don't appreciate the boot to show the way.

I guess it's just about like the world. Some folks are real easy to get along with and others present a challenge. Why not Christians too?

I'll be kind of scarce for the summer, at least. Duty's call.

Ken,



I am not sure if you had a specific post of mind when you made the above post, because I didn't specifically address peer acceptance on this thread. However, I do lean toward the idea of "peer acceptance". Also, I am not sure we have any disagreement here.

First off, Jesus is God. He has no peers...........

Secondly, Paul was an apostle, one of a very select group, and used in a special way in a special time. Paul received a special revelation of Jesus, from God, so that he might preach to the Gentiles. (Gal Ch 1)

Even though Paul had a direct, physical revelation, he was called to his first missionary journey while he was in Antioch with the church leaders. The Holy Spirit directed this group to set apart Paul and Barnabas for the work God was calling them to. (Acts 13)

To me, those church leaders were Paul's peers, and their acceptance of Paul and sending him out as a missionary is type of accountability that prevents folks from "going out in left field".

I don't know if anyone living today has had a special revelation from God of the magnitude Paul had. Some have certainly claimed so and many have started cults. Today, we have a very solid body of knowledge concerning Biblical, Evangelical, orthodoxy. Given all that, we need to be very careful if we seem to have a thought, idea, or "revelation" that runs counter to our present, orthodox, evangelical understanding of the Bible.

I am certainly not saying God won't give such revelations any more. However, any such revelation will be grounded in the Word and very likely be confirmed by conservative Evangelicals as they are sensitive to the Holy Spirit.

Stench of religiousity? With that mote about real teachers work for free coming from you? Don you're one screwed up dude!

I'm not running away Blaine. The scriptures themselves
tell us that it is a waste of time to try and discuss doctrine
with "heretics" (opinionated people) who think they know everything. I call these people "religious"people, having
a form of Godliness, but never able to come into the knowledge of truth.

I'm not interested in opinons or "interpretations". Build me
a case for what you believe if you want me to agree with
you that WE have found truth. Build me a proper case
that I cannot topple with my own built case....And I will
change what I believe in error. (Using scriptures!!!!!)

Finding truth is more important than proving our point! If
we cannot find agreement...one, or both of us, is wrong!

I'd be glad to discuss with you any question about where
I got my belief(s), but isn't it very hard to find space to
present line upon line, here a little , there a little on a
forum? And NO, we should not agree to disagree....If
we have one Spirit, and have put on the mind of Christ,
we should have "unity of the faith".( one doctrine - one belief)

And if anyone comes unto you having another Jesus, have
nothing to do with him. (paraphrased) Jesus is the Word
made flesh. If I have another word (belief) other than the
right one, I will become unacceptable to those who have
correct doctrine.(The number of which is lessor than one might think!)

Not all that saith unto me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but those who do the will of my Father. Many
who think they are Christians will be greatly surprised on
judgement day!! Why? Because they know not the will of
the Father, therefore how can they do it?

My e-mail address is: dslater2@neo.rr.com

I would be glad to explain any of my comments, and
provide the scriptures which make me believe that way.

In Him,

Don

At a meeting one night a little over thirty years ago, we were studying something or other in the New Testament, part of a series of connected studies. I don't remember what the subject of that night's study was � something or other that Jesus had said. What it wasn't will be a vivid memory as long as I live.

As usual, we'd welcomed a new-comer who'd come a few times before and had fidgeted and frowned more each time. That night, he leapt to his feet and stomped out after denouncing us loudly for not studying or even mentioning miracles. His last words were "Come ye out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord!" I've always wondered how he managed to tolerate us as long as he had.

.

Blaine,

Good post.

I recently encountered an interesting situation. A couple was claiming to be having a "great revival" in a nearby village. They claimed they had a majority of the town coming to their services. I had no reason to doubt, so I didn't. Then they wanted to buy some land for the Church they wanted to build. 90% of the town signed a petition requesting that the land would not be sold to that couple who claimed to be doing such great things. They were frauds, claiming to have visions from God, and saying all the right things, but the locals hated them. But they, the "missionaries" were so convinced they were the prophets, they couldn't see how much damage and harm they were doing to everyone they tried to minister to. They were not sent out by any organization that could test their sanity. It wouldn't doubt me if they were turned away by mission organizations.

Unfortunately, SE Alaska is a magnent for the "loonies" of Christianity. Everybody and their brother is showing up claiming visions from God and everybody seems to know how to solve the social problems of SE Alaska. I've learned that if a person starts of a conversation boasting about how God spoke to them and sent them to SE AK, then they are usually full of it.

So, if I seem a little turned off by lone prophets and missionaries, it's only because I've seen a ton, and haven't been impressed. Mission organizations screen for a reason...........

I thought you were gone?

Or are you just a drama queen?