24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Tanner Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Hey Fellas, I've got a pre-64 (1952) Model 70 Winnie in 300 H&H Mag, that was owned by my grandfather first, then passed down to me by my Father. After shooting the standard H&H for a while, my Grandpa had a gunsmith by the name of Bishop in L.A. ream out the chamber, thus steepening the shoulder considerably upon fire. Far improved velocity and accuracy are what we've gotten out of this round. The stock is like drift wood, the bluing is worn, but this old Warrior still hits like a train and drives tacks. Between my Grandpa's and my Father's cheeks on the stock, it's taken more great deer, elk, and speed-goat than you can shake a stick at.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Here's the fire-formed cartridge. Check out the steep shoulder. Similar to the Ackley Improved?

[Linked Image]

BP-B2

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,242
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,242
Probably closer to a .300 Weatherby. I had a pre-64 in .300 H&H that surprised me the first time I shot it: It had been re-chambered to a Weatherby with no markings to indicate the conversion. I've had older gunsmiths tell me that it wasn't that unusual a request in the 50's and 60's.

Great rifle! Now refinsih that stock.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Tanner Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Good call on the Weatherby, I've been thinking that the shoulder is probably more similar to the Roy cartridge as well. Maybe I'll load some up using Wby info, and see how the ballistics are. Not sure if I'll ever refinish the stock, if you look, the bolt side of the stock is actually incredibly lighter colored than the other side, from being exposed to the bright Colorado/California on a right-side shoulder! Pretty cool.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
NICE rifle. Love the rifles from that era. Pure class, and real thunder.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,935
Welcome to the Campfire.

Your mission is to turn around and walk back to even the stock side colors! wink

jim


LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
IC B2

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Tanner Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Thanks for the Welcome. Maybe a carry on the left shoulder for another 60 years will even out the stock, eh!?

Does anybody know of another H&H wildcatted in this way in a pre-64? I know of only 2, this particular one and my great-uncle's, who had his done at the same time my grandpa did.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 125
J
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
J
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 125
Nice shooter with cool family history.

Too bad it was rechambered and had that pad put on it. Quick lesson on making a 2 grand rifle into a 1 grand rifle but that happened to a lot of M 70s and 721s back in the day. As for improved accuracy and velocity, a 300 H&H is a very accurate cartridge and with modern powders can push a 150-168 gr premium bullet well over 3000 fps which will kill anything in North America very dead.

Worth refinishing the stock in the proper Winchester red and putting a modern Sorbothane pad on it.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,766
Originally Posted by JawnHenry
Worth refinishing the stock in the proper Winchester red and putting a modern Sorbothane pad on it.


Sure if he wanted to un-do the history his family has put in to it....


Its gem the way it is man.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 125
J
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
J
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 125
Good point, some history is best left as history.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,938
G
GF1 Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,938
I'd lay odds that it's a 300 Wby, as others here have said. Very common conversion, and a pretty good one.

IC B3

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,225
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,225
no reason to redo that rifle... would only increase the value to someone that will never own the rifle and decrease the value to the current owner... I can not imagine that he would EVER sell his grandfather's rifle.

I think its VERY cool you have this family rifle and I hope that you keep using it just as you see fit.


Andrew
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
There were many, many wildcats based on the full length H&H case merely 'improved' to one degree or another. Since the shoulders are not radiused, I am going to guess 300 ICL Grizzly or 300Ackley. If it were my gun I would merely neck size the cases, shoot it and call it whatever I wanted. Say..... the 300 Claiborne sounds kinda cool, as does the 308 Safariman! smile


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Tanner Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
That recoil pad is original, if you look at all the other Pre-64s, they've got the same "white line". Refinishing would be cool to see, but like I said, the history behind it is too much to go over with new Birchwood Casey. I'll keep it!

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 894
8
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
8
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by JawnHenry


Too bad it was rechambered and had that pad put on it. Quick lesson on making a 2 grand rifle into a 1 grand rifle but that happened to a lot of M 70s and 721s back in the day. As for improved accuracy and velocity, a 300 H&H is a very accurate cartridge and with modern powders can push a 150-168 gr premium bullet well over 3000 fps which will kill anything in North America very dead.


If you think about it for a few minutes you will realize that when this model 70 was "improved" the model 70 was just a good rifle and not a collectors item. In the day it was "improved" the thought that Winchester would try and go broke and butcher the model 70 in an effort to make the company profitable was beyond comprehension. So lets not talk to badly of those that did in the past what a lot of us like to do today that being rifle loony acts of "improvement".

Beautiful Rifle as is or refinished. Do what you want and or what you think your granddad would think was a good idea. He after all did the "improvement" he wanted I would think that he would approve of anything that you did as long as it continues to do what it was made to do. In my opinion that is letting the operator/shooter have fun while putting meat on the table.

8mmwapiti

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,849
W
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,849
Haven't seen any factory-issue P-64s with white line recoil pads. It was certainly a popular after-market modification, along with MC stocks and Weatherby chambers in the heyday of 'super velocity anywhere kills' mania.

An interesting bit of history.


Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry

Deus vult!

Rhodesians all now

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Tanner Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Perhaps I'm off in saying that the recoil pad is stock, my bad! It surely doesn't feel aftermarket, that "pad" is hard as a rock wink no matter, the recoil is extremely minimal.

Safariman, I like your idea! And after considering it, I've gone with the .300 Bishop Mag, after the fellow that wildcatted it.

Or, .300 Coulter Mag, after my Grandpa himself.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
300 Coulter sounds pretty good, that is what I would do and might even have the barrel stampes as such. Neck size, use 300WBY data, a tad bit backed off until loads proven and hunt! With 7828SSC, you should be able to get to 3200fps with 180gr TTSX's and similar. Add powder till you see that number or see obvisous pressure signs ( I predict you wont get to any signs of pressure first) or see 3200 on the Chrony and call it good. Nothing that load won't do that one should attempt with a 30 cal anything. Same/same with the 168TTSX running 3300. I have a shorter version of a similar era wildcat called at the time a 30 Belted Newton. Because of the slow burn rate and long pressure curve 7828SSC is your friend.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Tanner Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
I think that sounds like a lethal killer. I've just fire-formed 50 or so pieces of Hornady brass, and I look forward to trying some Wby load data! Previously, we've hunted everything with the 168 grainers, but the 180s will be my thunder this year I believe. Cheap 190s for the fire-forming gave a sweeeet whollop.

BUT, if .300 AI data is available, would you use it, or the 300 Wby?

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
300AI because of the freebore discrepancies, but NOT the stuff from the PO Ackley book. I have his books, and they could have been called " How to disassemble your rifle through the use of injudicious handloading" Crazy hot stuff in that manual. Actually, no real difference in what the two rounds should do which is why I said to get a batch of 7828SSC and work up unitl you get to 3200 w/180's or 3300 w/168's andcall it good. Might could go more, but no one can know for sure if the pressures are OK and then the question is..... WHY?

180 TTSX at 32000 does it all, unless a 375 or larger is needed. Easy as that. And to have this in a pre 64 model 70? Absolute perfection in hunting rifle nirvannah. Don't get no better than that.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Tanner Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
I like the way you think. In essence, I will be developing my OWN .300 Coulter Mag loads, beautiful. A 180 grn Triple Shock at 3200 fps, should kill most anything quite dead, unless I'm VERY badly misinformed wink

Do you have any idea as to what amount of 7828SSC I should start with? As I have no access to AI data.

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
396 members (1lesfox, 300jimmy, 160user, 257 mag, 1lessdog, 12344mag, 40 invisible), 2,089 guests, and 920 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,594
Posts18,398,021
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.217s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9020 MB (Peak: 1.0556 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 11:33:57 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS