24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 7,682
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 7,682
I brought home a nice S&W 45 colt. I went to the local store that sometimes has ammo. I asked for a box of 45 Colt. The guy behind the counter corrected me. “You mean 45 Ling Colt”.


Life member NRA
I prefer classic.
Member of the VVA - Semper Fi - SGT E5
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise.
BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,373
H
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
H
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,373
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot



Seems that a bunch of old codgers just like to look for things to complain about, and the weather is pleasant enough at the moment.


Yep,that's me.We don't look for things to complain about,we are only trying to educate you less than knowledgeable youngsters who think they know everything but it is evident they don't .

The 45 colt was the semi handgun produced by Colt in the Model 1911 , then 1911A, not the cartridge. The 45 in a revolver was not as common in the late 1800's. However, it was labeled a 45,not 45 long Colt when it did appear on the scene. When the 1911 came out, the cartridge was labeled the 45 ACP, not 45 Colt. Usually the 44-40 was more common as it was used in revolver and rifle. Today's 45 chambered rifles used in cowboy matches are a new thing.



It's funny that you imagine you could somehow educate me on this topic. I have already read the writings of men with far more knowledge than you and far less bias who have the credentials of actual experts. I'm going to go ahead and take their word for it. Men like Elmer Keith and Jim Taylor and Paco Kelly. I suggest you read their writings, rather than typing your own.

Either way, you don't seem to understand MY point, which is that nomenclature (naming words) and vernacular change over time, for reasons that aren't always clear. You have come upon something that doesn't make sense to you, and you are bitching. No more, no less.

Read "Sixguns", By Elmer Keith. Read Jim Taylor and Paco Kelly. I'm not going to argue with you, nor put up with your belligerent attitude.


I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
S
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
[quote=HuntnShoot

It's funny that you imagine you could somehow educate me on this topic. I have already read the writings of men with far more knowledge than you and far less bias who have the credentials of actual experts. I'm going to go ahead and take their word for it. Men like Elmer Keith and Jim Taylor and Paco Kelly. I suggest you read their writings, rather than typing your own.

Either way, you don't seem to understand MY point, which is that nomenclature (naming words) and vernacular change over time, for reasons that aren't always clear. You have come upon something that doesn't make sense to you, and you are bitching. No more, no less.

Read "Sixguns", By Elmer Keith. Read Jim Taylor and Paco Kelly. I'm not going to argue with you, nor put up with your belligerent attitude.[/quote]

Well you can always put me on ignore or just skip over my post.No one cranked your arm to read them.I didn't ask for anv arguments, or comments from [bleep] of which this forum seems to have more than it's share in the last few years.

Still looking for info on on 45 Short Colts

Last edited by saddlesore; 08/13/20.

If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 29,651
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 29,651
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot



Seems that a bunch of old codgers just like to look for things to complain about, and the weather is pleasant enough at the moment.


Yep,that's me.We don't look for things to complain about,we are only trying to educate you less than knowledgeable youngsters who think they know everything but it is evident they don't .

The 45 colt was the semi handgun produced by Colt in the Model 1911 , then 1911A, not the cartridge. The 45 in a revolver was not as common in the late 1800's. However, it was labeled a 45,not 45 long Colt when it did appear on the scene. When the 1911 came out, the cartridge was labeled the 45 ACP, not 45 Colt. Usually the 44-40 was more common as it was used in revolver and rifle. Today's 45 chambered rifles used in cowboy matches are a new thing.



It's funny that you imagine you could somehow educate me on this topic. I have already read the writings of men with far more knowledge than you and far less bias who have the credentials of actual experts. I'm going to go ahead and take their word for it. Men like Elmer Keith and Jim Taylor and Paco Kelly. I suggest you read their writings, rather than typing your own.

Either way, you don't seem to understand MY point, which is that nomenclature (naming words) and vernacular change over time, for reasons that aren't always clear. You have come upon something that doesn't make sense to you, and you are bitching. No more, no less.

Read "Sixguns", By Elmer Keith. Read Jim Taylor and Paco Kelly. I'm not going to argue with you, nor put up with your belligerent attitude.


In another post you claimed to have a 150 IQ that would put you in the "highly gifted" range, so you're probably used to being 3 steps ahead of lesser people and regularly get frustrated by having to tolerate their ignorance and general inability to comprehend things that are obvious/simple to you. My Wife is MENSA smart and thinks so far ahead of me that I don't even try to keep up anymore.

"It comes with the 150 IQ. I'm only a dick to midwits who can't get out of their own way and who imagine they "know"."

A Breakdown of IQ Scores

The average score on an IQ test is 100. These labels are often given for IQ scores:

1 to 24: Profound mental disability
25 to 39: Severe mental disability
40 to 54: Moderate mental disability
55 to 69: Mild mental disability
70 to 84: Borderline mental disability
85 to 114: Average intelligence
115 to 129: Above average or bright
130 to 144: Moderately gifted
145 to 159: Highly gifted
160 to 179: Exceptionally gifted
180 and up: Profoundly gifted

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 664
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 664
I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk hunter in .45 colt. I call it 45 long colt cuz it sounds cooler


DON’T BE TOO PROUD OF THIS TECHNOLOGICAL TERROR YOU’VE CONSTRUCTED. THE ABILITY TO DESTROY A PLANET IS INSIGNIFICANT NEXT TO THE POWER OF THE FORCE.

- Darth Vader
IC-A B3

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,713
H
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
H
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,713
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Usually the 44-40 was more common as it was used in revolver and rifle. Today's 45 chambered rifles used in cowboy matches are a new thing.


True. Because of the original rim diameter designed for headspace only, not extraction, which came in full length and later Scofield length cases "before, during and after the war"...



Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,360
H
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,360
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Usually the 44-40 was more common as it was used in revolver and rifle. Today's 45 chambered rifles used in cowboy matches are a new thing.


Not so, the 45 was the cartridge the most Colts were chambered for.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
S
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Usually the 44-40 was more common as it was used in revolver and rifle. Today's 45 chambered rifles used in cowboy matches are a new thing.


Not so, the 45 was the cartridge the most Colts were chambered for.


True but I mentioned rifles. The 44-40 came first .Many revolvers were retrofitted to accept metallic cartridges. The first 44's were rim fires. Which were common in the original Henrys. Even the 44-40 saw some changes when they started the 38-40 round which was a necked down 44-40. Sometime during the late1800's early 1900's in order to meet market demands,Colt installed oversized barrels ( .401-.403,I forget which at this time) in their 38-40's because they had more of them. The cylinders were correct, but bores were over sized .I had one of them until earlier this year....Very few rifles were chamber in 45 colt to begin with.


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,360
H
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,360
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Usually the 44-40 was more common as it was used in revolver and rifle. Today's 45 chambered rifles used in cowboy matches are a new thing.


Not so, the 45 was the cartridge the most Colts were chambered for.


True but I mentioned rifles. The 44-40 came first .Many revolvers were retrofitted to accept metallic cartridges. The first 44's were rim fires. Which were common in the original Henrys. Even the 44-40 saw some changes when they started the 38-40 round which was a necked down 44-40. Sometime during the late1800's early 1900's in order to meet market demands,Colt installed oversized barrels ( .401-.403,I forget which at this time) in their 38-40's because they had more of them. The cylinders were correct, but bores were over sized .I had one of them until earlier this year....Very few rifles were chamber in 45 colt to begin with.


Not so, the 45 Colt was designed in 1872, then adopted in 1873 by the military in the Colt SAA. The 44-40 was introduced in the Winchester 1873 in that same year. Close, but no cigar.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
S
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
You are correct about the1873 date.

Per Chuck Hawes book Early Metallic cartridges.

Winchester and Henry realized that a more powerful cartridge was needed on the western frontier, and that led to the development of the centerfire .44-40 Winchester cartridge. The steel frame Model 1873 rifle was designed for the higher pressure of the .44-40, using the basic Henry action.

The .44-40 was also adapted to handguns, where its rimmed design made it ideal for use in revolvers. It became one of the most popular cartridges for the famous 1873 Colt Single Action Army revolver, along with the classic .45 (Long) Colt cartridge, also introduced in 1873.

The 45 Colt was a not chambered in the rifles due to the small rim diameter and the cartridge was known for not chambering easily in a black powder fouled chamber.

This why I stated the early rifles were not chambered in 45 Colt and today's modern 45 Colt rifles used by Cowboy Match shooters are relatively new. I believe the army adopted the 45 because they had other rifles already in use.The people who wanted one cartridge for both rifle and hand gun favored the 44-40.

Last edited by saddlesore; 08/25/20.

If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
IC-B B4

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 521
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by saddlesore
You are correct about the1873 date.
The .44-40 was also adapted to handguns, where its rimmed design made it ideal for use in revolvers. It became one of the most popular cartridges for the famous 1873 Colt Single Action Army revolver, along with the classic .45 (Long) Colt cartridge, also introduced in 1873.



And I think the .44 WCF (.44-40) wasn't chambered in Colt revolvers until 1878.

It wasn't common back then for any manufacturer to chamber their firearms for somebody else's cartridge. Not sure, but Colt may have been the first to do that, with the three Winchester rifle cartridges (.44 WCF, .38 WCF, .32-20).

This wasn't all that long after "cartridges" as we know them today had come into existence, anyway, and lots of this was "developmental" (build it while you fly it).

-Chris


Last edited by Ranger4444; 08/25/20.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
S
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
BTW ,I put this here instead of the Cowboy Action Shooting as the main topic was 45Colts in early levers. The handguns kind of tagged along.

I was in Scheels awhile back in Johnston,Co.They had three Colts all chambered in 38-40 with a price tag of right at $3K. All pretty rough. Mine was a 1906 era production but had two serial numbers , the frame dated earlier and was a black powder number. The cylinder and barrel were a later date that accepted smokeless powder. Because of the two S/N's and the over sized barrel only got $1200 out of it. There was some question as to if it was sent back to the factory to be nickel plated or someone else did it.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

This was my Marlin 94 lever I used in matches, in 38-40. John Walsh in Washington state relined it and I did the the new wood.I have another one coming in all original that was my fathers and Ruger Buckeye Special that is my brother's.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by saddlesore; 08/25/20.

If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,360
H
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,360
Originally Posted by saddlesore

The 45 Colt was a not chambered in the rifles due to the small rim diameter and the cartridge was known for not chambering easily in a black powder fouled chamber.



Straight wall cases don’t seal gas blow by in chambers like the bottleneck case does. The reason the Army used a trapdoor springfield was because of it’s superiority to handgun cartridge rifles in range and energy. Sodbusters liked the repeaters, the Army liked power. The 45 Colt also was more powerful than the 44-40.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
S
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by saddlesore

The 45 Colt was a not chambered in the rifles due to the small rim diameter and the cartridge was known for not chambering easily in a black powder fouled chamber.



Straight wall cases don’t seal gas blow by in chambers like the bottleneck case does. The reason the Army used a trapdoor springfield was because of it’s superiority to handgun cartridge rifles in range and energy. Sodbusters liked the repeaters, the Army liked power. The 45 Colt also was more powerful than the 44-40.


That is true


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,309
bcp Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,309
[Linked Image]


Bruce

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 355
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 355
By acceptance by practically everyone for over a century, .45 Long Colt is as correct a designation as .45 Colt.


UVA UVAM VIVENDO VARIA FIT
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
S
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,526
Originally Posted by saddlegun
By acceptance by practically everyone for over a century, .45 Long Colt is as correct a designation as .45 Colt.



Same as referring to a caliber when we refer to a cartridge or chambering. A 30-06 and a 300mag is the same caliber,but different cartridge. May be accepted but not correct and I doubt it is in acceptance with" practically everyone"


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 355
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by saddlegun
By acceptance by practically everyone for over a century, .45 Long Colt is as correct a designation as .45 Colt.



Same as referring to a caliber when we refer to a cartridge or chambering. A 30-06 and a 300mag is the same caliber,but different cartridge. May be accepted but not correct and I doubt it is in acceptance with" practically everyone"


No, not at all. Everyone knows what ".45 Long Colt" means, and until recently nobody gave a fiddler's damn about calling it that.

As someone who has used the cartridge and reloaded it and called it ".45 Long Colt" (like many people) for about 50 years, I really have no idea why doing so has become a source of annoyance to some in the last decade or so.

But this same topic has popped up in forums again and again and again for some reason.

When you say ".45 Long Colt" it is if anything MORE specific than ".45 Colt".

Nobody will be confused in the slightest by it.

However, for some less-experienced people, ".45 Colt" could mean ".45 ACP" to them, without the context of the firearm being mentioned to understand which cartridge that you are actually referring to.

And, the acceptance of ".45 Long Colt" as a name, I am sure, arose out of the existence of the shorter ".45 Schofield" being on the shelves way back when.

Both cartridges were intended for used in the venerable Colt SAA in Cavalry service, and the Schofield cartridge was issued because of the S&W Schofield revolver also in use, because the .45 Colt cartridge was too long for it's cylinder.

Go into a general store or hardware store back in the day and ask for a box of .45's or .45 Colts, and you might be handed a box of .45 Schofield.

(Particularly if the clerk or proprietor had several boxes gathering dust on the shelves.) grin

But why worry about it?

Last edited by saddlegun; 05/12/21.

UVA UVAM VIVENDO VARIA FIT
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

Link Copied to Clipboard
CTV-TRX
Who's Online Now
93 members (4and1, 79S, 358wsm, 10gaugemag, 35, 257robertsimp, 12 invisible), 902 guests, and 713 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3-22

UDG-IP









Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2022 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.047s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9469 MB (Peak: 1.0953 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2022-08-17 08:35:50 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS